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The Minds of God's Messengers #10327
09/17/03 01:07 PM
09/17/03 01:07 PM
Darius  Offline OP
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
I just heard Doug Batchelor make a statement that has some bearing on the discussions Mike and I have been having on the truth about the Fall. Doug was asked whether the fact that someone is called of God means that everything he teaches should be followed. Doug plainly stated that even though God uses us our minds may sometimes lead us to the wrong conclusion. He used Martin Luther as an example. As he spoke I could not help but wonder whether he would also agree that this was possible with EGW as well. It is clear the to many Adventists, whatever EGW writes is gospel and not to be questioned.

Re: The Minds of God's Messengers #10328
09/17/03 06:56 PM
09/17/03 06:56 PM
A
Activator  Offline
New Member (Starting to Post)
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3
Canada
Darius: yours is a rhetorical question, a question asked merely for effect with no answer expected! [Smile]

In 1 Peter 4:11 Peter says, "If anyone speaks, let him speak as the oracles of God. If anyone ministers, let him do it as with the ability which God supplies, that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belong the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen."

Did you notice how it says "anyone"?

I do believe that Ellen White spoke as the oracles of God. There is not one thread of human devising in the Testimonies. "They bear the signet of Heaven or that of Satan. God has spoken. Who has trembled at His Word." Testimonies, Vol.5, p.98.

"You have gained such an experience in searching the Scriptures that every point is established. And it is important that you continually search the Scriptures." F.W.56.

No weapons formed against those who trust the Word and the Testimonies implicitly shall prosper!

Re: The Minds of God's Messengers #10329
09/17/03 08:24 PM
09/17/03 08:24 PM
Darius  Offline OP
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
quote:
Originally posted by Activator:
Darius: yours is a rhetorical question, a question asked merely for effect with no answer expected! [Smile]

In 1 Peter 4:11 Peter says, "If anyone speaks, let him speak as the oracles of God. If anyone ministers, let him do it as with the ability which God supplies, that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belong the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen."

Did you notice how it says "anyone"?

I did. I also noticed that you disregarded the admonition of the apostle. In fact, you completely misconstrued what he stated clearly. Paul is saying that whenever you decide to speak you should do so with the thought that the message you are conveying constitutes the oracles of God. He is not saying that everyone who speaks proclaims the oracles of God but that we should be careful how we speak. You should have been a little more careful and you would not have so twisted his words.

Re: The Minds of God's Messengers #10330
09/18/03 01:39 AM
09/18/03 01:39 AM
S
Steve Claborn  Offline
Full Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 213
Alabama
Activator wrote, "No weapons formed against those who trust the Word and the Testimonies implicitly shall prosper!"

Hmmmmm that's an interesting twist on that text... How about no weapons formed against those who trust God shall prosper...

Re: The Minds of God's Messengers #10331
09/19/03 06:25 PM
09/19/03 06:25 PM
A
Activator  Offline
New Member (Starting to Post)
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3
Canada
Darius: Christians are to minister or to speak with the ability which God supplies! "Our sufficiency is of God." 2 Cor.4:7.

Steve: To the law and to the Testimony. If they do not speak according to this word, there is no light in them.

To believe God means to believe the Scriptures and the prophets through whom He speaks.

Re: The Minds of God's Messengers #10332
09/21/03 09:06 PM
09/21/03 09:06 PM
Larry Kirkpatrick  Offline
Pastor
Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 817
Highland, CA, USA
The difference between Martin Luther and Ellen White is simple. One was used of God but not as a prophet, the other was used of God but as a prophet. Their offices were different, God's object in using them different. The counsel of one prophetically inspired is guarded by the Holy Spirit in a manner in which the counsel of the non-prophet is not. Therefore to compare the work of Luther to White is to compare different categories, apples to oranges. God's purpose is manifest as God designs.

Re: The Minds of God's Messengers #10333
09/22/03 07:08 AM
09/22/03 07:08 AM
Darius  Offline OP
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
quote:
Originally posted by Larry Kirkpatrick:
Therefore to compare the work of Luther to White is to compare different categories, apples to oranges. God's purpose is manifest as God designs.

I hope you did not write this with a straight face, Larry. Besides, what does that last sentence mean? Your insistence that the work of Luther is different from the work of EGW so that Luther's wrong conclusions are "allowed" by virtue of the nature of his work, while EGW's is not has no basis in independent fact.

Re: The Minds of God's Messengers #10334
09/22/03 08:06 PM
09/22/03 08:06 PM
Larry Kirkpatrick  Offline
Pastor
Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 817
Highland, CA, USA
My face is completely straight. Your doctrine, om the other hand, in my opinion, is such that it undermines the teachings for which this church stands. Your belittling of the work of God's prophets is disheartening. I find it most difficult to conceive of you as a Seventh-day Adventist, based upon the way in which you have presented yourself on these boards for so long.

Your teachings, in my opinion, are of a nature that is destructive. You judge the word that God has spoken to us through His prophets. You set one inspired statement against another and then declare inspired statement B to be uninspired because it does not meet your measure of inspired statement A. readers of this forum should be aware that in my opinion, your ideas, expressed on this forum on so many occasions, are those of a fringe-group of liberals. Ideas similar to or identical to your own have been expressed by some in our church who are bent upon destroying that which God has built up. Let the reader beware, and evaluate the Seventh-day Adventist Church and the third angel's message on its own merits and not on the basis of critics who speak words without knowledge. (my comment is restricted to the written, expressed ideas of Darius JDPhD, and is not meant as any reflection upon his person). Be warned darius, when you set one prophetic statement against another and then in your human reasoning use one statement to invalidate the other, you are engaged in using words without knowledge (Job 38:2), and I would not be kind to you if I failed to tell you so.

Incidentally, the EGW critics have been losing considerable ground in recent years. It may have been in vogue a few years ago to publish criticisms of EGW on the net, but that has not had any great impact. The truth goes marching on. "Others rashly denied the light behind them and said that it was not God that had led them out so far. The light behind them went out, leaving their feet in perfect darkness, and they stumbled and lost sight of the mark and of Jesus, and fell off the path down into the dark and wicked world below" Ellen G. White, Early Writings p. 14). I may warn you from a pastoral standpoint, recover yourself. But whatever you do, why not withhold your ramblings and discontents and doubts and keep them to yourself so that others are not misled by your spirit? You are somewhere on your own journey, if indeed you have not already fallen wholly off the path. Why thrash and spin and chatter?

Re: The Minds of God's Messengers #10335
09/23/03 02:39 PM
09/23/03 02:39 PM
Darius  Offline OP
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
The tendency to demonize when the argument is lost is of long standing. You may be able to convince those who think like you that I am an EGW critic, but that should bring you little comfort. God demands that you be always ready to give a reason. Trying to get out of the requirement to use reason by appealing to authority is unavailing.

Re: The Minds of God's Messengers #10336
09/23/03 02:46 PM
09/23/03 02:46 PM
Darius  Offline OP
Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,163
Muncie, IN
quote:
Originally posted by Larry Kirkpatrick:
My face is completely straight. Your doctrine, om the other hand, in my opinion, is such that it undermines the teachings for which this church stands. Your belittling of the work of God's prophets is disheartening. I find it most difficult to conceive of you as a Seventh-day Adventist, based upon the way in which you have presented yourself on these boards for so long.

Please, support your accusations with evidence. Show where I have belittled any prophet. I am saddened that your point of reference is what the SDA church teaches rather than the truth from God. I hope you will review the history of the Hebrews to see where that kind of thinking can lead.

If post lapsarian humans had a hand in it then it has to potential for error and must ALWAYS be reexamined. It is lazy to take the position that one look is sufficient for all time.

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