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Re: Will we continue to sin till we die.? [Re: Mountain Man] #103597
10/13/08 09:36 PM
10/13/08 09:36 PM
A
Aaron  Offline
Regular Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 82
TN
I dont read into those quotes that Mrs White is saying we must stop committing every little sin to earn salvation. I think she means we should aim for the mark. If she means Christian perfection like you are impling I wonder what year she became perfect herself? Any guesses? Do you think Eve sinned when she ate the fruit, decided to eat the fruit or even simply condersidered eating the fruit?

Aaron

Re: Will we continue to sin till we die.? [Re: Aaron] #103602
10/14/08 02:24 AM
10/14/08 02:24 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Here's my favorite EGW perfection of character quote:

 Quote:
The conditions of eternal life, under grace, are just what they were in Eden--perfect righteousness, harmony with God, perfect conformity to the principles of His law. The standard of character presented in the Old Testament is the same that is presented in the New Testament. This standard is not one to which we cannot attain. In every command or injunction that God gives there is a promise, the most positive, underlying the command. God has made provision that we may become like unto Him, and He will accomplish this for all who do not interpose a perverse will and thus frustrate His grace. (MB 76)


This brings out that:

1.Perfection = Being like Jesus Christ
2.*God* will accomplish this for all those who do not "interpose a perverse will and thus frustrate His grace."

This quote brings out that that focus should be on God, and His wonderful grace, rather than our trying to not sin.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Will we continue to sin till we die.? [Re: Tom] #103605
10/14/08 02:34 PM
10/14/08 02:34 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
3. God *will accomplish* this for all those who do not "interpose a perverse will and thus frustrate His grace."

If we focus on God, it will happen. Therefore, if it does not happen, we are not focusing on God.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: Will we continue to sin till we die.? [Re: Aaron] #103700
10/15/08 06:13 PM
10/15/08 06:13 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
 Originally Posted By: Aaron
I dont read into those quotes that Mrs White is saying we must stop committing every little sin to earn salvation. I think she means we should aim for the mark. If she means Christian perfection like you are impling I wonder what year she became perfect herself? Any guesses? Do you think Eve sinned when she ate the fruit, decided to eat the fruit or even simply condersidered eating the fruit?

Neither did she say we must stop committing grosser sins to earn salvation. She never talks about earning salvation by not sinning or by being righteous. Being sinlessly perfect and becoming sinlessly perfect are two different aspects of salvation.

Jesus said, "Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." In the same way Jesus began perfect (complete) and became perfect (mature) so too born again believers begin perfect and become perfect.

Paul described it this way: "Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Cor 7:1)

1. Begin perfect. "Let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit."

2. Become perfect. "Perfecting holiness in the fear of God."

Peter confirms this formula: "Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, as newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: if so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious." (1 Peter 2:1-3)

1. Begin perfect. "Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings."

2. Become perfect. "As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: if so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious."

Again, Peter confirms this formula: "Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God."

1. Begin perfect. "He that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin."

2. Become perfect. "He no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God."

Of course, this formula is conditional upon several things. Born again believers experience the promises of perfection only while they are actively abiding in Jesus, walking in the Spirit and mind of the new man, partaking of the divine nature, fighting the good fight of faith, etc. While doing these things they do not and cannot sin. That's what John said.

1 John
2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

The promises of perfection do not say born again believers lose the ability or freedom to sin. Indeed, only born again believers are truly free to sin. Unconverted sinners are the slaves and servants of sin. They cannot not sin. We are not free to sin until we are free from sin. John's point is that while actively abiding in Jesus, born again believers do not and cannot sin.

Other promises apply if believers neglect to abide in Jesus and fall into sin, namely, 1 John 2:1, 2. "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

Re: Will we continue to sin till we die.? [Re: Mountain Man] #103861
10/21/08 03:19 PM
10/21/08 03:19 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Bump for Aaron.

Re: Will we continue to sin till we die.? [Re: Mountain Man] #103965
10/24/08 02:45 PM
10/24/08 02:45 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Aaron, are you there?

Re: Will we continue to sin till we die.? [Re: Mountain Man] #103980
10/24/08 11:32 PM
10/24/08 11:32 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
removed post


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Will we continue to sin till we die.? [Re: Tom] #103983
10/25/08 12:35 AM
10/25/08 12:35 AM
A
Aaron  Offline
Regular Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 82
TN
I guess it boils down to one's definition of what sin is. Like Ive said before God can help us overcome sins in one's life. I think if you drink and feel its a sin then you can ask God to help you overcome that. I think if you swear alot and feel convicted to stop then ask God and over time He will help you overcome. The longer we reflect on Christ the more we become like Him while at the same time realize how different we are from Him. Thats why we always need Him, always need to go back to the feet of the Saviour. I don't believe one day you wake up and say "wow I cant even remember the last time I sinned"
Aaron

Re: Will we continue to sin till we die.? [Re: Aaron] #103988
10/25/08 01:16 AM
10/25/08 01:16 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
I haven't followed all of this. I believe in perfection of character, in the possibility of overcoming sin, but having said that I agree with what you wrote Aaron. In fact, I like the way you put it. Especially this:

Quote:
The longer we reflect on Christ the more we become like Him while at the same time realize how different we are from Him.


and this

Quote:
I don't believe one day you wake up and say "wow I cant even remember the last time I sinned"


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Will we continue to sin till we die.? [Re: Aaron] #103989
10/25/08 01:30 AM
10/25/08 01:30 AM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Originally Posted By: Aaron
I don't believe one day you wake up and say "wow I cant even remember the last time I sinned"

Actually, for those who are alive after the close of probation, they will not be able to recall their sin, because they have been blotted out. But they won't be patting themselves on the back saying, "I'm doing pretty good."


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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