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Re: Are we born again with uncrucified sinful habits? [Re: Mountain Man] #104710
11/17/08 01:36 AM
11/17/08 01:36 AM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Can a person be tempted when they no longer love a certain sin?

How could Adam be tempted? How could Christ be tempted if He didn't love sin? What do you think?

Re: Are we born again with uncrucified sinful habits? [Re: Rosangela] #104731
11/17/08 04:18 PM
11/17/08 04:18 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Active Member 2019

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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
Where in the Bible or the SOP does it say Peter sinned ignorantly against the Gentiles? The following passages make it clear Peter was not ignorantly prejudiced:

In the very quotes you posted:

"This vision conveyed to Peter both reproof and instruction. It revealed to him the purpose of God--that by the death of Christ the Gentiles should be made fellow heirs with the Jews to the blessings of salvation. As yet none of the disciples had preached the gospel to the Gentiles. In their minds the middle wall of partition, broken down by the death of Christ, still existed, and their labors had been confined to the Jews, for they had looked upon the Gentiles as excluded from the blessings of the gospel. Now the Lord was seeking to teach Peter the world-wide extent of the divine plan. {AA 135.3}

Peter related the plain interpretation of these words, which was given him almost immediately in his summons to go to the centurion and instruct him in the faith of Christ. This message showed that God was no respecter of persons, but accepted and acknowledged all who feared Him. ... {AA 193.1}

When Peter, at a later date, visited Antioch, he won the confidence of many by his prudent conduct toward the Gentile converts. For a time he acted in accordance with the light given from heaven. He so far overcame his natural prejudice as to sit at table with the Gentile converts. ...{AA 197.3}

Obviously the vision showed, revealed and taught things Peter didn't know, or wasn't aware of.

I was talking about after Peter learned this lesson, when he dissembled against the Gentiles and Paul rebuked him. Do you think Peter was abiding in Jesus when dissembled?

Re: Are we born again with uncrucified sinful habits? [Re: Rosangela] #104732
11/17/08 04:19 PM
11/17/08 04:19 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
Where in the Bible or the SOP does it say Peter sinned ignorantly against the Gentiles? The following passages make it clear Peter was not ignorantly prejudiced:

In the very quotes you posted:

"This vision conveyed to Peter both reproof and instruction. It revealed to him the purpose of God--that by the death of Christ the Gentiles should be made fellow heirs with the Jews to the blessings of salvation. As yet none of the disciples had preached the gospel to the Gentiles. In their minds the middle wall of partition, broken down by the death of Christ, still existed, and their labors had been confined to the Jews, for they had looked upon the Gentiles as excluded from the blessings of the gospel. Now the Lord was seeking to teach Peter the world-wide extent of the divine plan. {AA 135.3}

Peter related the plain interpretation of these words, which was given him almost immediately in his summons to go to the centurion and instruct him in the faith of Christ. This message showed that God was no respecter of persons, but accepted and acknowledged all who feared Him. ... {AA 193.1}

When Peter, at a later date, visited Antioch, he won the confidence of many by his prudent conduct toward the Gentile converts. For a time he acted in accordance with the light given from heaven. He so far overcame his natural prejudice as to sit at table with the Gentile converts. ...{AA 197.3}

Obviously the vision showed, revealed and taught things Peter didn't know, or wasn't aware of.

I was talking about after Peter learned this lesson, when he dissembled against the Gentiles and Paul rebuked him. Do you think Peter was abiding in Jesus when he dissembled?

Re: Are we born again with uncrucified sinful habits? [Re: Rosangela] #104733
11/17/08 06:09 PM
11/17/08 06:09 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Active Member 2019

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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
Can a person be tempted when they no longer love a certain sin?

How could Adam be tempted? How could Christ be tempted if He didn't love sin? What do you think?

I think there is a world of difference between pre-fall and post-fall Adam so far as how he was tempted. Before he sinned, Adam could not be tempted from within. Temptation did not originate from within. Afterward, this side of the fall, temptations originate both from within and from without.

Temptations from within originate with sinful flesh. Such temptations do not constitute sinning. Even if Satan were dead and gone, people would still be tempted from within. In fact, even if there was only one person left alive, even if that person was blind and death, he would be tempted from within.

Even people, like Jesus (when He was here), who hate sin with a holy hatred, are tempted from within and from without. Being tempted from within is not a sign that the tempted one loves sin. The "sin that dwells in" us will continue to tempt us until the day we die or the day Jesus replaces our sinful body and flesh with a sinless body and flesh.

Yes, certain temptations cease to tempt certain people. Smoking, for example, ceases to be a temptation for certain people. Whereas for some people it is a temptation until the day they die. This is especially true of alcoholics, addicts, homosexuals, pedophiles, obesity, pornography, etc.

But other types of internally generated temptations will continue to plague us until we receive a sinless body and flesh. However, such temptations do not indicate we are sinning. Again, it is not a sin to be tempted.

Re: Are we born again with uncrucified sinful habits? [Re: Mountain Man] #104737
11/17/08 07:25 PM
11/17/08 07:25 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
I was talking about after Peter learned this lesson, when he dissembled against the Gentiles and Paul rebuked him. Do you think Peter was abiding in Jesus when he dissembled?

But I was talking about the vision, which was given some 20 years after the crucifixion, that is, some 20 years after Peter was converted. He had been all those years ignorantly cherishing prejudice against the gentiles.
The incident in Antioch was a lapse.

Re: Are we born again with uncrucified sinful habits? [Re: Mountain Man] #104738
11/17/08 07:57 PM
11/17/08 07:57 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Before he sinned, Adam could not be tempted from within.

Ellen White speaks of "inward corruption(s) and outward temptations," "inward sin and outward temptation" and "outward temptations ... and inward foes." Indeed neither Adam nor Christ had inward corruptions or inward sins.

Quote:
Even if Satan were dead and gone, people would still be tempted from within.

I disagree. See below, where obeying the "evil promptings" is equated to doing the "works of Satan."

Quote:
Being tempted from within is not a sign that the tempted one loves sin.

This quote implies the opposite:

"Be not discouraged because your heart seems hard. Every obstacle, every internal foe, only increases your need of Christ. He came to take away the heart of stone, and give you a heart of flesh. Look to Him for special grace to overcome your peculiar faults. When assailed by temptation, steadfastly resist the evil promptings; say to your soul, "How can I dishonor my Redeemer? I have given myself to Christ; I cannot do the works of Satan." Cry to the dear Saviour for help to sacrifice every idol and to put away every darling sin. Let the eye of faith see Jesus standing before the Father's throne, presenting His wounded hands as He pleads for you. Believe that strength comes to you through your precious Saviour." {SL 90.3}

Re: Are we born again with uncrucified sinful habits? [Re: Rosangela] #104741
11/17/08 09:35 PM
11/17/08 09:35 PM
asygo  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Two sources of temptation:
Quote:
Temptation is enticement to sin, and this does not proceed from God, but from Satan and from the evil of our own hearts. {MB 116.2}

Here's another one worth some thought:
Quote:
The prevalence of a sinful desire shows the delusion of the soul. {MB 92.2}


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: Are we born again with uncrucified sinful habits? [Re: Rosangela] #104755
11/17/08 11:31 PM
11/17/08 11:31 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
I was talking about after Peter learned this lesson, when he dissembled against the Gentiles and Paul rebuked him. Do you think Peter was abiding in Jesus when he dissembled?

But I was talking about the vision, which was given some 20 years after the crucifixion, that is, some 20 years after Peter was converted. He had been all those years ignorantly cherishing prejudice against the gentiles. The incident in Antioch was a lapse.

"The incident in Antioch was a lapse." I agree. But was he abiding in Jesus when he lapsed? Or, is it possible to lapse while abiding in Jesus?

Re: Are we born again with uncrucified sinful habits? [Re: Rosangela] #104756
11/17/08 11:32 PM
11/17/08 11:32 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Rosangela, I don't see where the quote you posted teaches "evil promptings" and "the works of Satan" are synonymous. Please explain. Thank you.

"When assailed by temptation, steadfastly resist the evil promptings. . . {AG 84.5}

"Parents, remember that you deal with children who are struggling with temptation, and that to them these evil promptings are as hard to resist as are those that assail persons of mature years. {CG 263.3}

Re: Are we born again with uncrucified sinful habits? [Re: asygo] #104757
11/17/08 11:43 PM
11/17/08 11:43 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: asygo
Two sources of temptation:

Quote:
Temptation is enticement to sin, and this does not proceed from God, but from Satan and from the evil of our own hearts. {MB 116.2}

Great quote. Thanx, Arnold.

Originally Posted By: asygo
Here's another one worth some thought:

[quote]The prevalence of a sinful desire shows the delusion of the soul. {MB 92.2}

Sinful desires are sin. They do not constitute temptation.

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