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Harmony with God #11333
10/31/04 05:27 AM
10/31/04 05:27 AM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
When a person is born again, he is changed so as to be in harmony with God and God's law. As long as he does not resist God's grace, he will be made to be more and more like Christ.

Comments?

Re: Harmony with God #11334
10/31/04 02:50 PM
10/31/04 02:50 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,121
Nova Scotia, Canada
Before commenting, can you add some meat to that with some Bible references and quotes, as well as some relevant EGW references and quotes?

Re: Harmony with God #11335
10/31/04 03:41 PM
10/31/04 03:41 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Also, what about believers who do not know about the sabbath and diet? are they born again? If so, then why aren't they in harmony with God's law? And, what do you mean by - "he will be made to be more and more like Christ"? If his life is in harmony with the law isn't he already Christlike? Or, do you mean he will gradually sin less and less until he ceases to sin? Are we more like Jesus if we are less like Satan? Are we more like Jesus if we progress from murdering someone to only hating them in our heart?

Re: Harmony with God #11336
11/01/04 04:49 AM
11/01/04 04:49 AM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Could it be that it is more like when being born again one does live without sin, but like Peter when walking on water other things sooner or later manages to distract/misslead ones eyes from Jesus. When this happends the person starts to sink/sin until the circle compleates when the sinking is noticed and like Peter one once again look to Jesus asking, no, shouting out to Him for help. Growing in Jesus would then be to better resist the temptation to look to the glittering adds of the world in desire or at the towering clouds of darkness in fear.

Comments?

/Thomas

Re: Harmony with God #11337
10/31/04 05:00 PM
10/31/04 05:00 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
quote:
when being born again one does live without sin
Yes, Thomas, that's what makes sense to me. So long as we are abiding in Jesus, so long as we are connected to Christ, we do not and cannot commit a known sin. "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." 1 John 3:9.

But the instant we take our eyes off Jesus we cannot not commit a known sin. Without Jesus we sin automatically. But we are not left to wallow in our defeat and despair. No way. Rather, the Holy Spirit immediately begins offering us the gift of repentance, which empowers us to confess and forsake our sin, and then God restores the relationship our sin severed. He restores us back to the mind of the new man.

1 John
2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.
2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Re: Harmony with God #11338
10/31/04 07:57 PM
10/31/04 07:57 PM
Will  Offline
Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,332
BC, Canada
I am noticing some disturbing ideas that border if not cross the line and is outright legalism such as your "diet" In case you didn't know Jesus ate fish..yes He did, so being a vegetarian will NOT get you into heaven.

As for people bing in harmony with God. Well the Bible says this about the Gentiles:

quote:

Romans 2:15,15
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

God has written His law on everyones heart, so this tells me that the people who God will call out of Babylon will know the truths contained in the Bible because they are written upon their hearts and minds.
God Bless,
WIll

Re: Harmony with God #11339
10/31/04 11:37 PM
10/31/04 11:37 PM
V
vastergotland  Offline
Active Member 2011
3500+ Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Sweden
Will, more on the same theme...

1 tim1: 3As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer 4nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith. 5The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk. 7They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.
8We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers--and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

Also, I think you are right about the legalism part. What sums up the law is "Love the Lord Your God with all your heart and your neighbour as yourself". Merely fullfilling the letter of the law is not what God desires us to do but to show mercy and accnowledgement of God (hos6:6).
1 John 3: 14We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. 15Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.
16This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. 17If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? 18Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth. 19This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence 20whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.
21Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him. 23And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

/Thomas

Re: Harmony with God #11340
11/01/04 12:47 AM
11/01/04 12:47 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Will, just in case you didn't know, I agree with you regarding salvation and diet and sabbath keeping and non-SDA born again believers. However, during the MOB crisis, under the influence of the loud cry of the latter rain, everyone will choose for or against, among other things, diet reform and sabbath keeping. Those who reject these truths will be lost.

Also, do you really believe Gentiles (heathens wholly ignorant of the Bible) unwittingly obey all of the commandments, including the seventh-day sabbath? Or, do you think Paul was talking about the last six commandments? And, do you believe they will be saved based on their works?

Re: Harmony with God #11341
11/01/04 01:27 PM
11/01/04 01:27 PM
Shelley  Offline
Posting New Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 38
Australia
quote:
under the influence of the loud cry of the latter rain, everyone will choose for or against, among other things, diet reform and sabbath keeping. Those who reject these truths will be lost.
Mike, are you saying if I choose not to become a vegetarian during the latter rain, I will not be saved?

Re: Harmony with God #11342
11/01/04 05:37 PM
11/01/04 05:37 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Shelley, good question. Whether or not we are translated alive when Jesus returns depends on the truths we accept or reject during the outpouring of the latter rain. No one will be saved alive if they reject the 3AMs.

DA 490
Our condemnation in the judgment will not result from the fact that we have been in error, but from the fact that we have neglected heaven-sent opportunities for learning what is truth. {DA 489.5}

CH 575
Greater reforms should be seen among the people who claim to be looking for the soon appearing of Christ. Health reform is to do among our people a work which it has not yet done. There are those who ought to be awake to the danger of meat eating, who are still eating the flesh of animals, thus endangering the physical, mental, and spiritual health. Many who are now only half converted on the question of meat eating will go from God's people, to walk no more with them. {CH 575.2}

Living in harmony with God means living in harmony with present truth. Yes, there was a time when God winked at meat eating. But that time passed a long time ago. God's attitude about the injurious effects of eating meat is no different than any other harmful habit - including tobacco and narcotics. Vegetarianism is present truth, and has been for over a hundred years.

People who insist on eating meat, because the Bible condones it, are in essence rejecting present truth. This attitude, not meat eating itself, towards present truth is what causes people to abandon the Advent Movement during the final crisis. If we are willing to reject present truth, no matter what it is, then we are unfit for heaven. It is this unfitness that bars against us the gates of heaven.

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