As I am supposed to facilitate one of our four different Campmeeting Adult Sabbath School Classes, I am looking for lots of discussion this week in preparation for this upcoming class discussion.

Does keeping His commandments include breaking them? Are we walking in the light, as Jesus walked in the light, while we are in the throes of breaking His commandments? I don't think so. Commandment keeping and commandment breaking are opposites. We cannot do both at the same time. We are either all of His and free of sin, or we are none of His and full of sin. There is no middle ground, no neutral place.

“If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” (Romans 8:9) “No man can serve two masters.” (Matthew 6:24) “None of us can occupy a neutral position; our influence will tell for or against. We are active agents for Christ or for the enemy. We either gather with Jesus or scatter abroad.” (4T 16) “Almost but not wholly saved, means to be not almost but wholly lost.” (COL 118)

"We must inevitably be under the control of the one or the other of the two great powers that are contending for the supremacy of the world. It is not necessary for us deliberately to choose the service of the kingdom of darkness in order to come under its dominion. We have only to neglect to ally ourselves with the kingdom of light.

"If we do not co-operate with the heavenly agencies, Satan will take possession of the heart, and will make it his abiding place. The only defense against evil is the indwelling of Christ in the heart through faith in His righteousness. Unless we become vitally connected with God, we can never resist the unhallowed effects of self-love, self-indulgence, and temptation to sin.

"We may leave off many bad habits, for the time we may part company with Satan; but without a vital connection with God, through the surrender of ourselves to Him moment by moment, we shall be overcome. Without a personal acquaintance with Christ, and a continual communion, we are at the mercy of the enemy, and shall do his bidding in the end." (DA 324)

Either its possible to perfectly keep the law or its not. I think we should try to keep the "law" all the while realizing that our fallen human natures will not allow us to. I find is strange that people like you believe that its possible yet can't do it yourself. Start being perfect including your thoughts and let me know how that works for you and then I might believe its possible. Until then I go with Paul who expresses his struggles even after conversion. Even if it was possible I think you would be spending so much time looking at your self and your actions you would loose sight of whats important which is grace.

I'm understanding you to say that it's not. Is that correct?



Doesn't this statement speak of perfect obedience of the law?

As an aside, this is quite a nice statement, I think. It brings out the purpose of the law in a positive way, making clear that things like injustice wouldn't exist without the law. If we say the law cannot be kept, that seems tantamount to saying that we must be unjust. Can that be right?

As this is the crux of the error promoted in the NIV, I will do my very best, I promise, to post on this issue in the Bible versions thread before the end of this week. (This discussion is motivating me.) The modern Bibles have promoted the concept that man is powerless to cease sinning. The KJV, however, does not.

If Christ lived a perfect life as our example, why should we not benefit thereby? Why should we say He was NOT our example? Courage, my brother, take courage! The Canaan land is ours for the taking, with God on our side.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

True.


Who is responsible for those times in between sinning when we do actually manage to obey the law like Jesus did? Us or God? Also, where in the Bible or the SOP does it say "sinful flesh" prevents us from living in harmony with the law abiding example of Jesus? Is this a part time thing? That is, are there times when "sinful flesh" permits us to imitate Jesus by obeying the law? If so, is "sinful flesh" responsible for empowering us to be like Jesus? If not, who or what, then, empowers us to be obedient (when we're not sinning)?


Are you addressing me or everyone like me who believes being like Jesus is a reality while abiding in Him? "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not." (1 John 3:6) Please note what the promise does not include, namely, it does not promise those who are abiding in Jesus will lose the ability or freedom to sin. This promise, according to some people, describes what it is like while abiding in Jesus. It does not, however, imply they will never neglect to abide in Jesus and revert back to sinning. It simply says what it will be like while they are abiding in Jesus, namely, they are not sinning.


Are you sure you're the best judge of whether or not such a testimony is valid?


I assume you're referring to Romans 7:13-25. As you know, not everyone believes Paul was referring to sinning. There are those who believe he was referring to the clamorings of sinful flesh rather than to actually sinning. Which, by the way, is the only thing "sinful flesh" can "do" (Rom 7), that is, the only thing it can "do" is tempt us to indulge our innocent and legitimate needs in sinful ways. Do you view such temptations as sin? Do you think people thus tempted are guilty of sinning? When is it ever a sin to be tempted?


Did Jesus have this problem as He lived sinlessly? In other words, was Jesus guilty of navel-gazing as evidenced by the fact He never sinned? Or, is it possible to live in harmony with Jesus' sinless example and not be guilty of abandoning grace?

I agree, Tom. That is, it is a nice quote. And, it is impossible to obey the law and also be unjust. The example of Jesus is proof of it.

I've heard that Paul referred to a problem with his eyesight. Whether or not he had lingering damage to his eyes from his encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus I know not. But in his later years, he appears to have struggled with his eyesight, perhaps from cataracts.

He refers to his large handwriting when writing to the Galatians:

"Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand." (Galatians 6:11, KJV)

"See what large letters I use as I write to you with my own hand!" (Galatians 6:11, NIV)

(I do not know which translation here is more accurate, but Galatians is not one of Paul's larger letters.)



In that passage to the Galatians, Paul seems clear that his eyes were the source of his "temptation." Paul acknowledges that some of the Galatians would have been willing to give him their own eyes were such possible.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

GC, are you implying Paul's physical problem had something to do with what he wrote in Romans 7:13-25? If so, how and why?