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Is the latter rain before or after the national Sunday law? #123014
01/19/10 11:50 PM
01/19/10 11:50 PM
JCS  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 470
Colorado, USA
I've been taught since I was young that the latter rain preceeded the national Sunday law but recently discovered an Adventist book by Elder Gordon W. Collier that states the opposite. I searched the Spirit of Prophecy thoroughly and found this statement:

Quote:
Laws to Exalt the False Sabbath.--We are to be ready and waiting for the orders of God. Nations will be stirred to their very center. Support will be withdrawn from those who proclaim God's only standard of righteousness, the only sure test of character. And all who will not bow to the decree of the national councils, and obey the national laws to exalt the sabbath instituted by the man of sin to the disregard of God's holy day, will feel, not the oppressive power of popery alone, but of the Protestant world, the image of the beast. . . . {3SM 385.2}
The great issue so near at hand will weed out those whom God has not appointed and He will have a pure, true, sanctified ministry prepared for the latter rain. . . . {3SM 385.3}


So, my question remains, what is the truth?

Last edited by JCS; 01/19/10 11:53 PM.
Re: Is the latter rain before or after the national Sunday law? [Re: JCS] #123025
01/20/10 04:52 AM
01/20/10 04:52 AM
dedication  Online Content

Global Moderator
5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,814
Canada
Maybe both?

It prepares God's people for the crises, and is poured out in ever greater measure as God's people proclaim the truth during the crises.


Quote:
There must be no neglect of the grace represented by the former rain. Only those who are living up to the light they have, will receive greater light. Unless we are daily advancing in the exemplification of the active Christian virtues, we shall not recognize the manifestations of the Holy Spirit in the latter rain. It may be falling on hearts all around us, but we shall not discern or receive it. {FLB 333.6}

Re: Is the latter rain before or after the national Sunday law? [Re: dedication] #123037
01/22/10 01:07 AM
01/22/10 01:07 AM
JCS  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 470
Colorado, USA
I just recently found another quote from Ellen White:

Quote:
At the commencement of the time of trouble, we were filled with the Holy Ghost as we went forth and proclaimed the Sabbath more fully. LDE 143.1


I'm starting to wonder if there are any other distinct inaccuracies being taught in church.

Re: Is the latter rain before or after the national Sunday law? [Re: JCS] #123038
01/22/10 01:33 AM
01/22/10 01:33 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
The time of test is just upon us, for the loud cry of the third angel has already begun in the revelation of the righteousness of Christ, the sin-pardoning Redeemer. This is the beginning of the light of the angel whose glory shall fill the whole earth. For it is the work of every one to whom the message of warning has come, to lift up Jesus, to present Him to the world as revealed in types, as shadowed in symbols, as manifested in the revelations of the prophets, as unveiled in the lessons given to His disciples and in the wonderful miracles wrought for the sons of men. Search the Scriptures; for they are they that testify of Him.(1SM 362)


Elsewhere she ties the loud cry message to the latter rain.

Also, from A. T. Jones:

Quote:
“I received a letter a little while ago from Brother Starr in Australia. I will read two or three sentences because they come in well just at this place in our lessons: ‘Sister White says that we have been in the time of the latter rain since the Minneapolis meeting’” (General Conference Bulletin, 1893, p. 377).


So the latter rain began back in 1888, but there was no national Sunday law in effect (although things were in the works).


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is the latter rain before or after the national Sunday law? [Re: dedication] #123039
01/22/10 02:39 PM
01/22/10 02:39 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,224
Midland
Originally Posted By: dedication
Maybe both?
I was under the understanding that the national Sunday law was a decision point for people to choose one way or the other. Suppose the latter ran started beforehand. Would that mean those who decided after the law could not experience the latter rain. Alternatively, would there be any point to institute a Sunday law if the people aren't right with God? As Tom pointed out, at least some portion of the latter ran began in 1888. So, I would tend to agree that maybe it's on both sides of the Sunday law. For the people who aren't in agreement with the loud cry could not stand through the testing law, and the people who have never heard of it, will take a stand along with the others.

Re: Is the latter rain before or after the national Sunday law? [Re: kland] #123043
01/22/10 03:48 PM
01/22/10 03:48 PM
JCS  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 470
Colorado, USA
It's starting to seem apparent that this issue has similarities to the opposing veiws of salvation by faith or works. Both parties were in error because the truth was actually a unique combination of both. Perhaps there are multiple distinct "phases" of the Spirit's outpouring falling under the banner of the latter rain. My original quest was to discover the point in time when the last great outpouring of the Holy Spirit would occur, not realizing that there may well be several significant events over a period well exceeding one hundred years. If this is the case, why isn't our church exhibiting manifestations of the Holy Spirit to a greater degree than that of penticost as the Spirit of Prophecy has promised?

Quote:
The outpouring of the Spirit in the days of the apostles was "the former rain," and glorious was the result. But the latter rain will be more abundant. 8T 21 (1904)


In the process of my search for an explanation I found this:

Quote:
When one who is supposed to be led and taught by God turns out of the way, because of self-confidence, many follow his example. His false step may result in misleading thousands. Consider the parable of the fig tree: "A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: and if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down." Luke 13:6-9. "Then after that." In these words there is a lesson for all who are connected with the work of God. A period of probation was granted to the tree that bore no fruit. And in like manner God bears long with His people. But of those who have had great advantages, and who are standing in positions of high and sacred trust, and yet bear no fruit, He says: "Cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?" Let those connected with the Lord's special instrumentalities remember that He will call for fruit from His vineyard. Proportionate to the blessings bestowed will be the returns required. Heavenly angels have visited and ministered in every place where God's institutions are established. Unfaithfulness in these institutions is a greater sin than it would be elsewhere, for it has a greater influence than it would elsewhere have. Unfaithfulness, injustice, dishonesty, conniving at wrong, obstruct the light which God designs shall shine forth from His instrumentalities. {7T 200.5}

Re: Is the latter rain before or after the national Sunday law? [Re: JCS] #123062
01/24/10 03:02 PM
01/24/10 03:02 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
I recall learning the LR empowers believers perfected under the FR to proclaim more effectively the 3AMs during the SL crisis. The 3AMs swells to a "loud cry" as more and more believers receive the LR and proclaim them with power and effectiveness.

PS - Gordon Collier is my uncle. I can ask him questions if you wish.

Re: Is the latter rain before or after the national Sunday law? [Re: Mountain Man] #123074
01/24/10 08:54 PM
01/24/10 08:54 PM
JCS  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 470
Colorado, USA
Quote:
PS - Gordon Collier is my uncle. I can ask him questions if you wish.


Wow! Really? Please let him know I am greatly impressed by his book "The Early and Latter Rain of the Holy Spirit, Closing Events Study #22" and am curious how one might go about acquiring a complete "Closing Events" set. I've thoroughly searched for any of the other popular editions of the popular sermons and can only find #22.

Re: Is the latter rain before or after the national Sunday law? [Re: JCS] #123157
01/30/10 04:27 PM
01/30/10 04:27 PM
C
Charity  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2020

4500+ Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
Has anyone mentioned that national Sunday laws can be mild at first and be re-enacted or revised progressively until they carry severe sanctions?

Re: Is the latter rain before or after the national Sunday law? [Re: Charity] #123161
01/31/10 12:39 AM
01/31/10 12:39 AM
JCS  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 470
Colorado, USA
Ellen White has even said that we will still be able to witness to others for a short time after the Sunday Law first comes into effect.

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