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Re: I have some questions [Re: Tom] #123765
03/02/10 03:17 PM
03/02/10 03:17 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
The trend of Moses' life indicates he would be welcomed in heaven with open arms. But you didn't answer my question.

Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #123832
03/05/10 03:25 AM
03/05/10 03:25 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Originally Posted By: MM
MM:Was Moses' sin not a part of his character? If not, does that mean you believe it wasn't recorded in the book and that, therefore, it wasn't necessary for Jesus to write "pardon" next to it?

T:Ellen White says the character is not formed by the occasional good deed or misdeed, but by the trend of the life. What do you think the trend of Moses' life was?

M:The trend of Moses' life indicates he would be welcomed in heaven with open arms. But you didn't answer my question.


The sin would only have been recorded in the books of heaven if it was a part of his character.

You quoted earlier from the SOP that no one could go to heaven with unrepented registered sins, right? So if the trend of Moses' life is such that his character was in harmony with God, then clearly he had not unregistered unrepented sins, and sinning while dieing, before having the chance to repent, would not have changed this because the character is not revealed by the occasional good deed or misdeed, but by the trend of one's life.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: I have some questions [Re: Tom] #123839
03/05/10 04:09 PM
03/05/10 04:09 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Tom, do you really believe certain sins are not recorded in the books above, that certain sins do not require repentance, that certain sins do not require pardon? Ellen wrote:

By every sin Jesus is wounded afresh . . . {DA 300.3}

Every sin is an offense against God, and is to be confessed to Him through Christ. {GW 216.3}

Every sin must be renounced as the hateful thing that crucified the Lord of life and glory . . . {NL 28.1}

It is the privilege of all who comply with the conditions to know for themselves that pardon is freely extended for every sin. {FLB 134.4}

Go to your rest at night with every sin confessed. {9T 48.3}

The guilt of every sin pressed its weight upon the divine soul of the world's Redeemer. {FLB 101.3}

Every sin acknowledged before God with a contrite heart, He will remove. {7BC 970.14}

The least deviation from its requirements, by neglect or willful transgression, is sin, and every sin exposes the sinner to the wrath of God. {1SM 218.2}

As soon as the books of record are opened, and the eye of Jesus looks upon the wicked, they are conscious of every sin which they have ever committed. {GC 666.2}

Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #123857
03/07/10 12:40 AM
03/07/10 12:40 AM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
MM, did you read what I posted from Waggoner? Did that make sense?

I haven't been saying that there isn't a record of sins in heaven, but that the record isn't the important thing, the character is. Does this not make sense?


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: I have some questions [Re: Tom] #123873
03/07/10 03:05 PM
03/07/10 03:05 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
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Active Member 2019

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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Tom
Quote:
Though all the record of all our sin, even though written with the finger of God, were erased, the sin would remain, because the sin is in us. Though the record of our sin were graven in the rock, and the rock should be ground to powder—even this would not blot out our sin.

The blotting out of sin is the erasing of it from nature, the being of man.

The erasing of sin is the blotting of it from our natures, so that we shall know it no more. "The worshippers once purged"[Hebrews 10:2, 3]—actually purged by the blood of Christ—have "no more conscience of sins," because the way of sin is gone from them. Their iniquity may be sought for, but it will not be found. It is forever gone from them—it is foreign to their new natures, and even though they may be able to recall the fact that they have committed certain sins, they have forgotten the sin itself—they do not think of doing it any more. This is the work of Christ in the true sanctuary (The Review and Herald, September 30, 1902).

MM, did you read what I posted from Waggoner? Did that make sense?

I like his insight that after Jesus blots out our record of sin it no longer occurs to us to sin. But I totally disagree with the idea that we will be able to recall the specific sins that were blotted out. I agree with Ellen that "once purged" means having "no more conscience of sins", that is, no more "remembrance" of the specific sins we committed.

Quote:
T: I haven't been saying that there isn't a record of sins in heaven, but that the record isn't the important thing, the character is. Does this not make sense?

We're talking about whether or not the sins we commit are recorded in the books in heaven. Do you believe "every sin" we commit is recorded in the books in heaven? Or, do you believe certain sins are not recorded, that certain sins do not require repentance, that certain sins do not require pardon written next to them in the books in heaven?

By the way, yes, character is what matters in judgment. It is what determines our eternal destiny. But I'm not addressing this particular aspect of final judgment.

Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #123886
03/07/10 08:36 PM
03/07/10 08:36 PM
Tom  Offline
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Quote:
T:MM, did you read what I posted from Waggoner? Did that make sense?

M:I like his insight that after Jesus blots out our record of sin it no longer occurs to us to sin. But I totally disagree with the idea that we will be able to recall the specific sins that were blotted out.


Of course we'll be able to remember what we've done. God doesn't give us a lobotomy.

Quote:
I agree with Ellen that "once purged" means having "no more conscience of sins", that is, no more "remembrance" of the specific sins we committed.


No more remembrance of sins not confessed, because all known sins have been confessed. She not saying God gives us a lobotomy.

Quote:

T: I haven't been saying that there isn't a record of sins in heaven, but that the record isn't the important thing, the character is. Does this not make sense?

M:We're talking about whether or not the sins we commit are recorded in the books in heaven. Do you believe "every sin" we commit is recorded in the books in heaven? Or, do you believe certain sins are not recorded, that certain sins do not require repentance, that certain sins do not require pardon written next to them in the books in heaven?


I don't agree with this way of looking at things (i.e., what I'm perceiving from you.) How I think things should be looked at is simple. The books of heaven faithfully record the character of each one.

Quote:
By the way, yes, character is what matters in judgment. It is what determines our eternal destiny. But I'm not addressing this particular aspect of final judgment.


I think the books of heaven are only concerned with heaven, so it's not possible to address the books of heaven in regards to the final judgment without addressing character.


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: I have some questions [Re: Tom] #123901
03/08/10 01:38 AM
03/08/10 01:38 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Tom
The books of heaven faithfully record the character of each one.

I'm not sure how this answers my questions. Here they are again. Please explain to me how it answers each one. Thank you.

1. Do you believe "every sin" (see quotes above) we commit is recorded in the books in heaven?
2. Or, do you believe certain sins are not recorded . . .
3. that they do not require repentance . . .
4. that they do not require writing pardon next to them in the books in heaven?

Re: I have some questions [Re: Mountain Man] #123903
03/08/10 04:35 AM
03/08/10 04:35 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
MM.

BTW, in your comments you quoted a lot of EGW quotes.

Do you believe that her writings is always correct and in harmony with the apostles, always biblical?

In His love

Re: I have some questions [Re: James Saptenno] #123905
03/08/10 05:16 AM
03/08/10 05:16 AM
J
James Saptenno  Offline OP
Charter Member
Active Member 2012
Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,157
Jakarta, Indonesia
BTW, I have a serious question and need your advice.

In northern part of the world like Canada, sunset is very late at night and emerge very early in the morning. Some times there is only 2 hours dark night, is that correct?

Then, how are you keeping your Sabbath day? Still 24 hours? if so, what is your time started and finished> or, just as according the sunset and sunrise? This mean, some time you will have only 2 hours Sabath, and maybe in Arctic area, no Sabbath at all?

In His love

Re: I have some questions [Re: James Saptenno] #123912
03/08/10 03:09 PM
03/08/10 03:09 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: James Saptenno
MM.

BTW, in your comments you quoted a lot of EGW quotes.

Do you believe that her writings is always correct and in harmony with the apostles, always biblical?

In His love

Without a doubt! What about you? Do you believe Jesus spoke through her like He did the apostles? Or, do you think when explaining salvation truths she at times weaved in her own uninspired opinions thus compromising the truth?

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