HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield, Dina, Nelson
1323 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,189
Posts195,525
Members1,323
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
Rick H 16
kland 15
Daryl 4
March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Member Spotlight
Kevin H
Kevin H
New York
Posts: 625
Joined: November 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
3 registered members (Karen Y, 2 invisible), 2,795 guests, and 4 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 25 1 2 3 24 25
Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? #127732
09/23/10 08:14 PM
09/23/10 08:14 PM
Tom  Offline OP
Active Member 2012
14500+ Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,795
Lawrence, Kansas
Does what human nature Christ assumed impact righteousness by faith? If so, how?

The purpose of this topic is not do debate what human nature Christ took, but to discuss if and how Christ's assumed human nature impacts righteousness by faith (We have other threads discussing what human nature Christ assumed).


Those who wait for the Bridegroom's coming are to say to the people, "Behold your God." The last rays of merciful light, the last message of mercy to be given to the world, is a revelation of His character of love.
Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Tom] #127739
09/24/10 02:34 AM
09/24/10 02:34 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Yes. Since Jesus was able to exercise faith and experience righteousness it proves we can do the same thing with the same results. Ellen wrote:

The love and justice of God, and also the immutability of His law, are made manifest by the Saviour's life no less than by His death. He assumed human nature, with its infirmities, its liabilities, its temptations. "Himself took our infirmities and bore our sicknesses" [Matthew 8:17]. "In all things it behooved Him to be made like unto His brethren" [Hebrews 2:17]. He was "in all points tempted like as we are" [Hebrews 2:14]. He exercised in His own behalf no power which man cannot exercise. As man he met temptation, and overcame in the strength given Him of God. He gives us an example of perfect obedience. He has provided that we may become partakers of the divine nature, and assures us that we may overcome as He overcame. His life testified that by the aid of the same divine power which Christ received, it is possible for man to obey God's law. {17MR 337.4}

Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Mountain Man] #127740
09/24/10 02:38 AM
09/24/10 02:38 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
PS - If Jesus' humanity was unlike ours or possessed powers not available to us it would be impossible for us to imitate His sinless example. We would have no reason to believe we can have faith like He did or to experience righteousness like He did.

1 Peter
2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

His example = no sin

Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Mountain Man] #127776
09/26/10 12:41 AM
09/26/10 12:41 AM
G
glenm  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018
Posting New Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 45
Colorado, USA
Yes, what nature Christ took during the Incarnation does have a major impact on righteousness by faith.

The Spirit of Prophecy expresses this idea in a variety of ways. Here are a couple of my favorite quotes:

Christ is the ladder that Jacob saw, the base resting on the earth, and the topmost round reaching to the gate of heaven, to the very threshold of glory. If that ladder had failed by a single step of reaching the earth, we should have been lost. But Christ reaches us where we are. He took our nature and overcame, that we through taking His nature might overcome. Made "in the likeness of sinful flesh" (Rom. 8:3), He lived a sinless life. Now by His divinity He lays hold upon the throne of heaven, while by His humanity He reaches us. He bids us by faith in Him attain to the glory of the character of God. Therefore are we to be perfect, even as our "Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Desire of Ages, page 311)

The Son of God was assaulted at every step by the powers of darkness. After His baptism He was driven of the Spirit into the wilderness, and suffered temptation for forty days. Letters have been coming in to me, affirming that Christ could not have had the same nature as man, for if He had, He would have fallen under similar temptations. If He did not have man's nature, He could not be our example. If He was not a partaker of our nature, He could not have been tempted as man has been. If it were not possible for Him to yield to temptation, He could not be our helper. It was a solemn reality that Christ came to fight the battles as man, in man's behalf. His temptation and victory tell us that humanity must copy the Pattern; man must become a partaker of the divine nature. (Selected Messages Book One, page 408)

This is a rich theme, and there's a lot more material of this sort available.

Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: glenm] #127779
09/26/10 01:21 AM
09/26/10 01:21 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Glen, great quotes. Couldn't agree more. Here's another one I'm sure you like as much:

Quote:
The obedience of Christ to His Father was the same obedience that is required of man. Man cannot overcome Satan's temptations without divine power to combine with his instrumentality. So with Jesus Christ; He could lay hold of divine power. He came not to our world to give the obedience of a lesser God to a greater, but as a man to obey God's holy law, and in this way He is our example. The Lord Jesus came to our world, not to reveal what a God could do, but what a man could do, through faith in God's power to help in every emergency. Man is, through faith, to be a partaker in the divine nature, and to overcome every temptation wherewith he is beset. {7BC 929.6}

Jesus proved that we can, like He did, possess sinful flesh and partake of the divine nature and resist every temptation. More than this, like Jesus, we can mature in the fruits of the Spirit on a daily basis. Sinning and repenting isn't a necessary or inevitable cycle we are doomed to live with because we possess sinful flesh. God requires of us the same obedience Jesus rendered. Ellen wrote:

Quote:
The great teacher came into our world, not only to atone for sin but to be a teacher both by precept and example. He came to show man how to keep the law in humanity, so that man might have no excuse for following his own defective judgment. We see Christ's obedience. His life was without sin. His lifelong obedience is a reproach to disobedient humanity. The obedience of Christ is not to be put aside as altogether different from the obedience He requires of us individually. Christ has shown us that it is possible for all humanity to obey the laws of God. {3SM 135.2}

The obedience that Christ rendered is exactly the obedience that God requires from human beings today. It was the obedience of a son. He served His Father in willingness and freedom, and with love, because it was the right thing for Him to do. "I delight to do Thy will, O My God," He declared; "yea, Thy law is within My heart." Thus we are to serve God. Our obedience must be heart-service. It was always this with Christ. If we love Him, we shall not find it a hard task to obey. We shall obey as members of the royal family. We may not be able to see the path before us, but we shall go forward in obedience, knowing that all issues and results are to be left with God. {ST, January 25, 1899 par. 9}

PS - Welcome to the forum. I look forward to studying with you.

Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: glenm] #127782
09/26/10 06:37 PM
09/26/10 06:37 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
"Letters have been coming in to me, affirming that Christ could not have had the same nature as man, for if He had, He would have fallen under similar temptations. If He did not have man's nature, He could not be our example. If He was not a partaker of our nature, He could not have been tempted as man has been. If it were not possible for Him to yield to temptation, He could not be our helper. It was a solemn reality that Christ came to fight the battles as man, in man's behalf."

Obviously, if Christ could not be tempted, and if He could not fight our battles, He could not be our helper. He had to assume man's nature. But to what extent must Christ's human nature go? J & W taught that, to be our helper, Christ must be, and indeed was, born with the propensities of sin, something which there is no basis for asserting.

Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Tom] #127783
09/26/10 06:49 PM
09/26/10 06:49 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
The purpose of this topic is not do debate what human nature Christ took, but to discuss if and how Christ's assumed human nature impacts righteousness by faith

As I see it, it's impossible to discuss one thing without discussing the other.

Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Tom] #127784
09/26/10 09:56 PM
09/26/10 09:56 PM
G
glenm  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018
Posting New Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 45
Colorado, USA
Originally Posted By: Tom
Does what human nature Christ assumed impact righteousness by faith? If so, how?

The purpose of this topic is not do debate what human nature Christ took, but to discuss if and how Christ's assumed human nature impacts righteousness by faith (We have other threads discussing what human nature Christ assumed).


If we look at the sanctuary doctrine, one of the really central ideas that comes through is that of gaining complete victory over sin, during the great antitypical Day of Atonement since 1844. The Spirit of Prophecy talks about this in many places, for example GC 424-25.

The same idea applies in some related areas, for example with reference to the 144,000 and standing without intercession for sin during the time of Jacob's trouble.

There seem to be several reasons why such complete victory is important -- we are fitted for heaven, we demonstrate God's power to save to the uttermost, Satan's rival kingdom is repudiated, and so on.

Is such victory possible, and if so, how? The only way that I know of is through total dependence on Christ, as our substitute, forerunner, helper, and example. We appropriate the perfect life that He worked out in a human body during the Incarnation. Christ overcame by depending totally on His Father, and we overcome by depending on Christ (John 5:30, John 6:54-57, Revelation 3:21). See also chapters 2, 4, and 5 of Hebrews.

If Christ's nature was fundamentally different than ours, then all this goes out the window. In such a case, we would still have the idea that we need to reach perfection of character, but no way of achieving it.

Glen

Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: glenm] #127787
09/27/10 01:21 AM
09/27/10 01:21 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Adam and Eve, before the Fall, possessed advantages not available to us nowadays. We cannot point to them, therefore, to prove living without sinning is possible. Why not? Because they weren't anything like us. They were sinless. Their nature was in perfect harmony with the will of God. It encouraged them to mature in the fruits of the Spirit. Nothing in them craved or clamored for them to express their innocent and legitimate needs in sinful ways. They were not tempted from within to be unlike Jesus. They did not have internal foes. They didn't inherit sinful inclinations, tendencies, propensities from their parents. They didn't have defects, weaknesses, and imperfections. For all of these reasons we cannot point to them as proof we can be like Jesus.

And for the same reasons we cannot say Jesus is unlike us. We cannot say He is like Adam and Eve before the Fall. To say Jesus did not have to resist internal foes the same as us makes Him so unlike us that we cannot point to Him as proof we can live without sinning like Him. True, as God, He had to set aside His divinity in order not to have advantages not available to us. However, Jesus did not possess any human advantages He had to set aside in order to be like us. Having a human nature like Adam and Eve before the Fall would have given Him an advantage not available to us. nowhere does it say He set it aside to be like us. Which, obviously, means He didn't have it.

Re: Is there a relation between Christ's assumed human nature and rightesousness by faith? [Re: Mountain Man] #127806
09/27/10 09:59 PM
09/27/10 09:59 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
Adam and Eve, before the Fall, possessed advantages not available to us nowadays. We cannot point to them, therefore, to prove living without sinning is possible. Why not?

Because they sinned!

Page 1 of 25 1 2 3 24 25

Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 03/27/24 09:35 AM
Are the words in the Bible "imperfect"?
by Kevin H. 03/24/24 09:02 PM
The Story of David and Goliath
by ProdigalOne. 03/23/24 08:06 PM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 03/22/24 10:17 AM
Carbon Dioxide What's so Bad about It?
by kland. 03/21/24 12:34 PM
The Value of Bible Types
by TruthinTypes. 03/17/24 06:22 PM
Orion Which Every One on the Globe Can See
by Rick H. 03/16/24 06:26 PM
'Prophet' Summons UFOs
by ProdigalOne. 03/16/24 02:19 AM
Will You Take The Wuhan Virus Vaccine?
by dedication. 03/11/24 06:31 PM
Get That Razor Wire Up!
by kland. 03/05/24 12:49 PM
Messages for This Time
by ProdigalOne. 03/04/24 05:54 AM
The Lake of Fire is Hell
by Rick H. 03/02/24 05:01 PM
Adventist Agriculture
by kland. 02/29/24 12:33 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
The Wound Is Healed! The Mark Is Forming!
by Rick H. 03/27/24 10:36 PM
Are we seeing a outpouring of the Holy Spirit?
by Rick H. 03/24/24 06:50 PM
Time Is Short!
by Rick H. 03/24/24 06:45 PM
Climate Change and the Sunday Law
by Rick H. 03/24/24 06:42 PM
WHAT IS THE VERY END-TIME PROPHECY?
by Rick H. 03/23/24 06:03 PM
Digital Identity Control
by Rick H. 03/23/24 02:08 PM
A.I. - The New God?
by Rick H. 03/23/24 01:59 PM
Christian Nationalism/Sunday/C
limate Change

by ProdigalOne. 03/16/24 08:38 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by Rick H. 03/16/24 06:30 PM
Is There A Connection Between WO & LGBTQ?
by Kevin H. 03/12/24 09:20 PM
A Second American Civil War?
by Daryl. 03/04/24 06:14 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1