John, please admit that your view contradicts the SOP, or please provide the proof that it doesn't. She says the IJ began with the dead in 1844. You disagree. She says the IJ of the living will not begin until after the MOB crisis begins. You disagree.

J.N. Andrews
JNA JUDGEMENT CHAPTER 1 THE INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT page 0012 paragraph 1 2. When the sins of the righteous are blotted out they can be no more remembered. They are blotted out before Christ comes. There can be, therefore, no act of calling them to account for their sins after the advent of Christ. Thus we read:-

JNA JUDGEMENT CHAPTER 1 THE INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT page 0012 paragraph 2 "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you." Acts 3:19,20.

JNA JUDGEMENT CHAPTER 1 THE INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT page 0012 paragraph 3 Mr. Wesley, in his "Notes on the New Testament," gives a different translation, which may be more accurate:-

JNA JUDGEMENT CHAPTER 1 THE INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT page 0012 paragraph 4 "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, that the times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and he may send to you Jesus Christ, who was before appointed."

CHAPTER 1 THE INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT page 0012 paragraph 5 Albert Barnes, in his "Notes on the Acts," speaking of these two translations, says, "The grammatical construction will admit of either." One of these represents the blotting out to be when the times of refreshing arrive; the other makes it the cause of that refreshing. But neither of them gives the idea that this blotting out takes place when the sinner turns to God. Both of them throw it into the future. Each of them represents it as preceding the second coming of the Lord. But this is especially true of the latter translation, which follows the original in using a conditional verb respecting Christ's advent; not as though that were a doubtful event, but rather as if his coming to the personal salvation of the ones addressed depended upon their having part in the refreshing, and as if that refreshing was to come in consequence of the blotting out of sins.


THE PROMISED REFRESHING

J. N. LOUGHBOROUGH

JNL HV THE PROMISED REFRESHING page 0073 paragraph 1 "REPENT ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began." Acts 3:19-21.

JNL HV THE PROMISED REFRESHING page 0073 paragraph 2 Here is brought to view a time of refreshing. This is spoken of in close connection with Christ's second coming. This undoubtedly refers to the same time as that mentioned by the apostle James: "Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh." James 5:7,8.

JNL HV THE PROMISED REFRESHING page 0073 paragraph 3 The early and latter rain is also mentioned by the prophet Joel in connection with the description of the last days. The coming of the "former rain moderately" is called in the margin of the text, "A teacher of righteousness, according to righteousness." Joel 2:23. The outpouring of the Spirit of God on the day of Pentecost - the coming of the Comforter as a teacher - was comparable to the "former rain," which caused the newly sown seed of the husbandman to take root and grow. So in the ripening of the harvest of the earth, just before the end, the husbandman - our Heavenly father (John 15:1) - is waiting for the "latter rain," the "refreshing," to aid in ripening the harvest of the earth. The Lord says by his prophet, "Ask ye of the Lord rain in the time of the latter rain; so the Lord shall make bright clouds, and give them showers of rain, to every one grass in the field." Zech.10:1. And thus will be fulfilled his promise: "Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord; his going forth is prepared as the morning, and he shall come unto us as the rain, and the latter and former rain unto the earth." Hosea 6:3.

The Book of Life - Object of thrilling interest! Vast and ponderous volume, in which are enrolled the names of all the candidates for everlasting life! And is there danger, after our names have once been entered in that heavenly journal, that they may be blotted out? - Yes; or this warning would never have been penned. Paul, even, feared that he himself might become a castaway. 1Cor.9:27. It is only by being overcomers at last that our names can be retained in that book. But all will not overcome. Their names, of course, will be blotted out. And reference is made to some definite point of time in the future for this work. "I will not," says Christ (in the future), blot out the names of the overcomers, which is also saying, by implication, that at the same time he will blot out the names of those who do not overcome. Is not this the same time mentioned by Peter in Acts3:19? "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord." To say to the overcomer that his name shall not be blotted out of the book of life, is to say also that his sins shall be blotted out of the book wherein they are recorded, to be remembered against him no more forever. Heb.8:12. And this is to be when the times of refreshing come from the presence of the Lord; may we not also add, in that other language of Peter, When the day star shall arise in our hearts, or the morning star be given to the church, just previous to the advent of the Lord to usher in the glorious day? 2Pet.1:19; Rev.2:28. And when that hour of decision shall come, which can not now be a great way in the future, how, reader, will it be with you? Will your sins be blotted out, and your name be retained in the book of life? or will your name be blotted out of the book of life, and your sins be left to bear their fearful record against you? Uriah Smith, Daniel and the Revelation, page 394.

Accordingly, today, just now, "while it is called today," as never before, the word of God to all people is "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come ["that there may come seasons of refreshing," R.V.] from the presence of the Lord; and He shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: whom the heaven must receive until the time of restitution of all things." Acts 3:19-21…This blotting out of sins must precede the receiving the refreshing of the latter rain. For it is only upon those who have the blessing of Abraham that the promise of the Spirit comes, and it is only those who are redeemed from sin upon whom the blessing of Abraham comes. Gal. 3:13, 14. Therefore now as never before we are to repent and be converted that our sins may be blotted out, that an utter end shall be made of them forever in our lives and everlasting righteousness brought in. And this, in order that the fulness of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit shall be ours in this time of the refreshing of the latter rain. And all this must be done in order that the harvest-ripening message of the gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world with that power from on high by which the earth shall be lightened with its glory. Acts 3:19-21. A.T. Jones, The Consecrated Way. Page 124.

All readings above are taken from the Words of the Pioneers CD


The thoughts above are in harmony with the S.O.P.-
The work of the investigative Judgment and the blotting out of sins is to be accomplished before the second advent of the Lord. Since the dead are to be judged out of the things written in the books, it is impossible that the sins of men should be blotted out until after the Judgment at which their cases are to be investigated. But the apostle Peter distinctly states that the sins of believers will be blotted out, "when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and he shall send Jesus Christ." [ACTS. 3:19, 20.] When the investigative Judgment closes, Christ will come, and his reward is with him to give to every man as his work shall be. {GC88 485.2} EGW

The prophecies which were fulfilled in the outpouring of the former rain at the opening of the gospel, are again to be fulfilled in the latter rain at its close. Here are "the times of refreshing" to which the apostle Peter looked forward when he said, "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out [in the investigative Judgment], when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and he shall send Jesus." [ACTS 3:19, 20.] {GC88 611.1} EGW

If the blotting out of sins is equated with the latter rain then it stands to reason that some living were judged to see if they were worthy of the latter rain and since judgment begins with those who have more light then this is undoubtly SDAs who are judge first in the judgment of the living because we are the only one who preach such messages.

Mike, John's portrayal of the IJ as being a reality today for the living is in harmony with Sister White's writings. On the other hand, your position that the IJ is a future event when the Sunday laws are passed, while it is true that this will draw wide public attention to the issue and test the hearts and minds of many of the 'gentiles', your interpretation is tantamount to a 'peace and safety' message. The scripture says 'now is the acceptable time, now is the day of salvation.'

The main issue I have with John, Tom and Thomas' views are their pushing the law and its convicting role in the judgment into the background. We not only need to see Christ as our intercessor and the source of our new garment, we need to also see our great need of that clothing. The law shows us our need, our sinfulness.

Greetings,

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"Let us strive with all the power that God has given us to be among the hundred and forty-four thousand." (Review and Herald, March 9, 1905) Vol. 7, Bible Commentary, p. 970:9.

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"Those who die after having become identified with the third angel’s message, are evidently numbered as a part of the 144,000; for this message is the same as the sealing message of Revelation 7, and by that message only 144,000 were sealed. But there are many who have had their entire religious experience under this message, but have fallen in death. They die in the Lord, and hence are counted as sealed; for they will be saved. But the message results in the sealing of only 144,000; therefore these must be included in that number. Being raised in the special resurrection (Daniel 12:2; Revelation 1:7) which occurs when the voice of God is uttered from the temple, at the beginning of the seventh and last plague (Revelation 16:17; Joel 3:16; Hebrews 12:26), they pass through the period of that plague, and hence may be said to come ‘out of great tribulation’ (Revelation 7:14), and being raised from the grave only to mortal life, they take their stand with believers who have not died, and with them receive immortality at the last trump (1 Corinthians 15:52), being then, with the others, changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. Thus, though they have passed through the grave, it can be said of them at last, that they are ‘redeemed from among men’ (Revelation 14:4), that is, from among the living; for the coming of Christ finds them among the living, waiting for the change to immortality, like those who have not died, and as if they themselves had never died." Daniel and Revelation, p. 634 Berean Library Edition.

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J. White: "Those who die under the third angel’s message are a part of the 144,000; there are not 144,000 in addition to these, but these help make up that number. They are raised to mortal life shortly before Christ comes, and . . . are changed to immortality when Christ appears." Review and Herald, September 23, 1880. [SDA Bible Commentary Encyclopedia (1976 edition) page 1030.]

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"From this we may recognize that, at the coming of the Lord, all of the 144,000, as living saints, will be composed of those who have never seen death and those who have died during the preaching of the last message but have resurrected before the appearing of the Lord." Sabbath School Lesson, August 1,1908.

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Sister Cheri

Mark, Jesus entered the MHP in 1844 to begin the IJ on behalf of the dead. He did not include the living at that time. In fact, as late as 1911 Sister White affirmed, "The judgment is now passing in the sanctuary above. For many years this work has been in progress. Soon--none know how soon--it will pass to the cases of the living." GC 490.

When did the IJ of the living pass to the cases of the living?

Cheri, you might want to consider starting a new thread on the 144,000. Or, better yet, resurrect one of the many threads on that topic. It has been discussed repeatedly, though, so you might not get any hits on it? Try and see. I would to study it again.