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Why did God command people to stone, scorch, and smite sinners to death? #120867
10/23/09 04:20 PM
10/23/09 04:20 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Exodus
21:16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
22:19 Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.
31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it [is] holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth [any] work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh [is] the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth [any] work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Leviticus
20:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
20:2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever [he be] of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth [any] of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.
20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood [shall be] upon them.
20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with [another] man's wife, [even he] that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
20:12 And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood [shall be] upon them.
20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.
20:15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.
20:16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.

Leviticus
24:13 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
24:14 Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard [him] lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him.

Numbers
15:35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
15:36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

Leviticus
20:14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it [is] wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.
21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Joshua
7:15 And it shall be, [that] he that is taken with the accursed thing shall be burnt with fire, he and all that he hath: because he hath transgressed the covenant of the LORD, and because he hath wrought folly in Israel.

Deuteronomy
13:15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that [is] therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.
20:13 And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:

Joshua
6:21 And they utterly destroyed all that [was] in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.

Joshua
10:30 And the LORD delivered it also, and the king thereof, into the hand of Israel; and he smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that [were] therein; he let none remain in it; but did unto the king thereof as he did unto the king of Jericho.
10:31 And Joshua passed from Libnah, and all Israel with him, unto Lachish, and encamped against it, and fought against it:
10:32 And the LORD delivered Lachish into the hand of Israel, which took it on the second day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that [were] therein, according to all that he had done to Libnah.
10:33 Then Horam king of Gezer came up to help Lachish; and Joshua smote him and his people, until he had left him none remaining.
10:34 And from Lachish Joshua passed unto Eglon, and all Israel with him; and they encamped against it, and fought against it:
10:35 And they took it on that day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that [were] therein he utterly destroyed that day, according to all that he had done to Lachish.
10:36 And Joshua went up from Eglon, and all Israel with him, unto Hebron; and they fought against it:
10:37 And they took it, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof, and all the souls that [were] therein; he left none remaining, according to all that he had done to Eglon; but destroyed it utterly, and all the souls that [were] therein.
10:38 And Joshua returned, and all Israel with him, to Debir; and fought against it:
10:39 And he took it, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof; and they smote them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed all the souls that [were] therein; he left none remaining: as he had done to Hebron, so he did to Debir, and to the king thereof; as he had done also to Libnah, and to her king.
10:40 So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded.
10:41 And Joshua smote them from Kadeshbarnea even unto Gaza, and all the country of Goshen, even unto Gibeon.
10:42 And all these kings and their land did Joshua take at one time, because the LORD God of Israel fought for Israel.

Re: Why did God command people to stone, scorch, and smite sinners to death? [Re: Mountain Man] #120872
10/23/09 06:02 PM
10/23/09 06:02 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Did God give in and permit people to execute sinners so as not to lose their respect and favor? Or, is capital punishment symbolic of the final judgment?

Re: Why did God command people to stone, scorch, and smite sinners to death? [Re: Mountain Man] #120902
10/24/09 04:00 PM
10/24/09 04:00 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Why doesn't God command us nowadays to stone, scorch, and smite sinners to death?

Re: Why did God command people to stone, scorch, and smite sinners to death? [Re: Mountain Man] #120903
10/24/09 04:03 PM
10/24/09 04:03 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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Were the people guilty of sinning who obeyed God's command to stone, scorch, and smite sinners to death? If so, were they required to repent and confess their sin on the head of the sacrificial animal and slit its throat? Also, were they required to repent for killing an innocent animal? If not, why not?

Re: Why did God command people to stone, scorch, and smite sinners to death? [Re: Mountain Man] #120944
10/25/09 07:34 PM
10/25/09 07:34 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Quote:
Did God give in and permit people to execute sinners so as not to lose their respect and favor? Or, is capital punishment symbolic of the final judgment?

I think in this passage Ellen White defines well why sinners were executed in the OT times:

"Love no less than justice demanded that for this sin judgment should be inflicted. God is the guardian as well as the sovereign of his people. He cuts off those who are determined upon rebellion, that they may not lead others to ruin. In sparing the life of Cain, God had demonstrated to the universe what would be the result of permitting sin to go unpunished. The influence exerted upon his descendants by his life and teaching led to the state of corruption that demanded the destruction of the whole world by a flood. The history of the antediluvians testifies that long life is not a blessing to the sinner; God's great forbearance did not repress their wickedness. The longer men lived, the more corrupt they became. {RH, February 11, 1909 par. 18}

"So with the apostasy at Sinai. Unless punishment had been speedily visited upon transgression, the same results would have again been seen. The earth would have become as corrupt as in the days of Noah. Had these transgressors been spared, evils would have followed greater than resulted from sparing the life of Cain. It was the mercy of God that thousands should suffer, to prevent the necessity of visiting judgment upon millions. In order to save the many, he must punish the few. Furthermore, as the people had cast off their allegiance to God, they had forfeited the divine protection, and, deprived of their defense, the whole nation was exposed to the power of their enemies. Had not the evil been promptly put away, they would soon have fallen a prey to their numerous and powerful foes. It was necessary for the good of Israel, and was also a lesson to all succeeding generations, that crime should be promptly punished. And it was no less a mercy to the sinners themselves that they should be cut short in their evil course. Had their lives been spared, the same spirit that led them to rebel against God would have been manifested in hatred and strife among themselves, and they would have eventually destroyed one another. It was in love to the world, in love to Israel, and even to the transgressors, that crime was punished with swift and terrible severity." {RH, February 11, 1909 par. 19}

Re: Why did God command people to stone, scorch, and smite sinners to death? [Re: Rosangela] #120992
10/26/09 07:54 PM
10/26/09 07:54 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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"I will visit their sin upon them." What means did God employ to punish and destroy these sinners? Did He merely allow sin to run its course? Or, did He command people to stone, scorch, or smite them? If so, why?

Quote:
In the name of "the Lord God of Israel," Moses now commanded those upon his right hand, who had kept themselves clear of idolatry, to gird on their swords and slay all who persisted in rebellion. "And there fell of the people that day about three thousand men." Without regard to position, kindred, or friendship, the ringleaders in wickedness were cut off; but all who repented and humbled themselves were spared. {PP 324.1}

In deep sadness the people had buried their dead. Three thousand had fallen by the sword; a plague had soon after broken out in the encampment; and now the message came to them that the divine Presence would no longer accompany them in their journeyings. Jehovah had declared, "I will not go up in the midst of thee; for thou art a stiffnecked people: lest I consume thee in the way." And the command was given, "Put off thy ornaments from thee, that I may know what to do unto thee." Now there was mourning throughout the encampment. In penitence and humiliation "the children of Israel stripped themselves of their ornaments by the mount Horeb." {PP 327.1}

Re: Why did God command people to stone, scorch, and smite sinners to death? [Re: Mountain Man] #121197
11/01/09 05:40 PM
11/01/09 05:40 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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As we all know, Tom vehemently opposes the idea that it was God's will or desire to command people to stone, scorch, or smite sinners. He says the "humane hunter" story explains precisely why the Bible portrays God commanding people to do such things. It has something to do with running the risk of being misunderstood.

For example, God ran the risk of being viewed as being in favor of burning people alive when He commanded it. The question is - Why did He run such risks? What comfort or consolation would it be to those who survived the incineration of their loved ones?

Leviticus
20:14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it [is] wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.

Leviticus
21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

Joshua
7:15 And it shall be, [that] he that is taken with the accursed thing shall be burnt with fire, he and all that he hath: because he hath transgressed the covenant of the LORD, and because he hath wrought folly in Israel.

Re: Why did God command people to stone, scorch, and smite sinners to death? [Re: Mountain Man] #121262
11/04/09 03:59 PM
11/04/09 03:59 PM
Mountain Man  Offline OP
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It's hard to imagine God doing something diametrically opposed to His law. Obviously, therefore, He didn't violate any eternal principles when He commanded people to stone, scorch, and smite sinners to death.

Re: Why did God command people to stone, scorch, and smite sinners to death? [Re: Mountain Man] #121453
11/11/09 02:01 AM
11/11/09 02:01 AM
D
dedication  Online Content

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This is the a difficult thing to understand.

We shudder in horror at the Moslem methods of punishing the transgressors, but aren't they, in actuality just following Leviticus.
We point at the Mediavel Church and their witch burnings/drownings, their deadly persecution of those who "strayed", yet they can find their justification in those texts quoted above.

We as Christians don't believe this is the way to do things.
Why?

What has changed?

Some look at the story of the woman caught in adultery. According to the law she was to be stoned (along with the guy she was caught with) why didn't Jesus simply point out the guilty guy and have them both stoned?

A whole gnostic line of theology developed over these concerns and seeming differences between the God of the Old Testament and Jesus. According to them the old testament God was an inferior evil god that Jesus came to liberate people from.

There are some SERIOUS questions on this subject.

While I personally think Tom has taken the subject too far in another direction, yet I know there are BIG questions concerning some of these things that need more logical answers.

As I study prophecy, I also realize the Christian world will use those texts again to enforce what they view as "will of God".

Re: Why did God command people to stone, scorch, and smite sinners to death? [Re: dedication] #121458
11/11/09 01:05 PM
11/11/09 01:05 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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One factor to be considered is that God meets people where they are. In this week's lesson we see that sometimes not even God's severe judgments could eliminate or change the rebellious spirit of those people. It's not that human beings are completely different today than they were then, but civilization in general is a little more refined.

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