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Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: Rosangela] #133247
05/05/11 01:16 PM
05/05/11 01:16 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rosangela
kland,

Strong's just give the words in the singular form. You must read the text itself. You can read it here, together with an interlinear translation:

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm
Ahh, thanks! Even if it's PDF, it's still nice to know about. Do you know anything about the downloadable version and if it works decently?

Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: kland] #133248
05/05/11 01:31 PM
05/05/11 01:31 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
It sounded like you just said that all numbers in Daniel are related to the same period.

Ellen White interprets the 1260 days as being 538-1798. She interprets the 2300 as being 457-1844, that is, including the 1260. She says:

The message of Revelation 14, proclaiming that the hour of God's judgment is come, is given in the time of the end; and the angel of Revelation 10 is represented as having one foot on the sea and one foot on the land, showing that the message will be carried to distant lands, the ocean will be crossed, and the islands of the sea will hear the proclamation of the last message of warning to our world. {2SM 107.3}

"And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer" (Rev. 10:5, 6). This message announces the end of the prophetic periods. {2SM 108.1}

So, yes, I believe that there are still prophecies to be fulfilled during earth's history, but none of them with time attached to it.

Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: Rosangela] #133249
05/05/11 01:33 PM
05/05/11 01:33 PM
His child  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Originally Posted By: His Child
From Strong's allow me to give you two instances:
Unto two thousand <0505> (Daniel 8:14)
the thousand <0505> (Daniel 12:12)

0505 &#1507;&#1500;&#1488; ‘eleph eh’- lef is translated as thousand 500 times and a variant 1 time (2000)

The same number was translated as 1000 and 2000 depending on the context. That being said, the translators got it right that time. Point being the context can affect how the number is intended to be understood.

The inference is wrong, so the conclusion is wrong. The word in Dan. 12:12 is alph - a thousand, while the word in Dan. 8:14 is alphim - two thousand, as the supphix "im" indicates "two."


You will have to take that up with Strong since he lists them as the same word. Without any training in the ancient languages, I have to depend on my English Bible and concordance
Then I check it out with the Spirit of Prophecy.

And sometimes I encounter "scholars" that give me views that are opposing the views of other "scholars" that I encounter. That is especially true in a study of Daniel.

Perhaps you have noticed in the KJV that Daniel 7:9 reads
"I beheld till the thrones were cast down,"

and in other versions the same phrase is rendered:

"As I looked, thrones were placed" (RSV)
"I kept looking,Until thrones were set up," (NASB)

So one translator says his rendition is better than the others
And they haggle is it this or that?

All the while, they miss the point.

Revelation 10 says the little book (Daniel) is now open. And it says: " And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:" (10:6)

Context: 1844 when the sweet and bitter experience was known after the great disappointment
created things in heaven - thrones set up - Judgment (1844)
created things in earth - thrones set up - America's Louisiana Purchase (1805)
created things in sea- thrones cast down - papal rule over church & state (1798)

both renditions are right depending on the context. But some scholars would totally disregard 1/2 the truth because it does not fit into their paradigm

They say one needs to be careful not to throw a baby out with the wash water. Can you imagine such as that?


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: kland] #133250
05/05/11 01:35 PM
05/05/11 01:35 PM
His child  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
kland,

Strong's just give the words in the singular form. You must read the text itself. You can read it here, together with an interlinear translation:

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm
Ahh, thanks! Even if it's PDF, it's still nice to know about. Do you know anything about the downloadable version and if it works decently?


Thank you I now have another tool in my study toolbox.


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: kland] #133251
05/05/11 01:37 PM
05/05/11 01:37 PM
E
Elle  Offline
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Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
kland,

Strong's just give the words in the singular form. You must read the text itself. You can read it here, together with an interlinear translation:

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm
Ahh, thanks! Even if it's PDF, it's still nice to know about. Do you know anything about the downloadable version and if it works decently?


The software does work very well and is a great study tool Kland. I have been using their software for a year now. I have learn much about how to read the original source text and to see the literal translation of each words (or prefix and suffix characters attach to a Hebrew word) in a text. Plus it has a very nice search engines and strongs codes references under each words and strong's definition just a click away.

I would say it's well worth to download this software and would recommend it.


Blessings
Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: kland] #133252
05/05/11 01:39 PM
05/05/11 01:39 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
What date was set?

When the persecution does begin, the countdown would also begin.

Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: Elle] #133254
05/05/11 01:46 PM
05/05/11 01:46 PM
Rosangela  Offline
5500+ Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
The software does work very well and is a great study tool Kland.

Yes, very useful.

Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: Rosangela] #133258
05/05/11 03:03 PM
05/05/11 03:03 PM
His child  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
And obviously Ezra arrived in Jerusalem in 457 BC near the end of a 2300-day period.

Beginning when?


Dear Rosangela,

Did I not include that information? My apology.

Originally Posted By: Ezra 7:7-9

And there went up some of the children of Israel, and of the priests, and the Levites, and the singers, and the porters, and the Nethinims, unto Jerusalem, in the seventh year of Artaxerxes the king.
8 And he came to Jerusalem in the fifth month, which was in the seventh year of the king.
9 For upon the first day of the first month began he to go up from Babylon, and on the first day of the fifth month came he to Jerusalem, according to the good hand of his God upon him.


Since it was the seventh year of King Artaxerxes, Ezra had to begin counting the 2300-days from the beginning of King Artaxerxes reign. Artaxerxes was the king that issued the third and final decree for the restoration.

Originally Posted By: EGW
The commandment to restore and build Jerusalem, as completed by the decree of Artaxerxes Longimanus (see Ezra 6:14; 7:1, 9, margin), went into effect in the autumn of B. C. 457. {DA 233.1}


But perhaps you would like a few more details?

Jerusalem fell to King Nebuchadnezzar in 605 BC.

Jeremiah said it would be desolate 70-years.

Quote:
Jer 25:11 And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.
Jer 25:12 And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations.
Jer 29:10 For thus saith the LORD, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place.


Originally Posted By: EGW
Within about two years of the fall of Babylon, Cyrus succeeded to the throne, and the beginning of his reign marked the completion of the seventy years since the first company of Hebrews had been taken by Nebuchadnezzar from their Judean home to Babylon. {PK 556.4}


605BC - 70 years = 535BC

Did you notice that Jeremiah said it would take 70-years? The 70-years ended in 535, but Jerusalem and the Temple were still in ruins. The final decree was issued in 457BC.

Quote:
Jer 16:18 And first I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double; because they have defiled my land, they have filled mine inheritance with the carcases of their detestable and abominable things.


Thus the Lord said through Jeremiah the 70-years were to be doubled. 605BC to Cyrus 535BC (70-years). 535-70=465BC the year in which the 70-years doubled (140-years) ended. The next year Artaxerxes became king and the 2300 literal days began. They ended on Yom Kippur 457BC. Ezra and his group arrived in Jerusalem about 19-days before Yom Kippur.

Originally Posted By: EGW
The 2300 days had been found to begin when the commandment of Artaxerxes for the restoration and building of Jerusalem went into effect, in the autumn of B.C. 457. Taking this as the starting point, there was perfect harmony in the application of all the events foretold ... extend to 1844. "Then," said the angel, "shall the sanctuary be cleansed." {FLB 208.3}

Miller and his associates at first believed that the 2300 days would terminate in the spring of 1844, whereas the prophecy points to the autumn of that year. ... But this did not in the least affect the strength of the argument showing that the 2300 days terminated in the year 1844, and that the great event represented by the cleansing of the sanctuary must then take place. {GC88 328.3}


I hope that answers your question. I don't get asked about that too often. It is in my first book on Daniel (Defying Destiny) published in 2001. But knowledge has increased far beyond that as we near the end of the months that remain in the endtime.

How much time do we have left? I don't know.

How long will Pope Benedict XVI live? If you know the answer to the pope question, you know more than I do.

If you are an individual that really wants to know endtime prophecies and what God expects of His people, i.e., why He tells them this stuff, you would be blessed by reading "Echoes of Doomsday." The "new light" that sets it apart from rehashing so many things in Daniel and Revelation is that the Abomination of Desolation was set up, when and by whom, and that the 1290-days and 1335-days have already ended. What was the blessing and who received it?

http://stores.lulu.com/DanielsRevelation

I don't want to sound like a commercial. But the download is on sale for less than $5.00 as an intro promo. Those that are giving me feedback thus far say that the bulk of the information is need to know stuff. But don't imagine that I have everything perfect. I'm human and striving to rightly divide the word while the devil is doing his thing to keep that from happening. And if he can't keep the lid on truth, he will settle for keeping the saints away from it. As long as he can have us slumber a little longer, he will be happy.

But we have God's promises! (from memory) The wise will understand. My word will not return unto Me void, but it will accomplish what I send it to do. Not by might or by power, but by My Spirit saith the Lord! And there are more.

Be blessed as much as you will receive; and receive as much as you can give again.


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: Rosangela] #133260
05/05/11 03:29 PM
05/05/11 03:29 PM
His child  Offline
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Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
Quote:
Did God say there would be a period of 3.5-years of persecution in the endtime?

If He said such a thing, is it to give you faith to anticipate that it will come?

Or is such a revelation to warn you to fortify oneself by immersing into a study of the Scriptures before it would come?

Jesus said there would be a persecution. Revelation shows the same. If you fortify yourself by praying and studying the Bible, it doesn't matter how long the persecution will last. Affirming that there will be a period of 3.5 years of persecution is just setting another date for Christ's coming - something we are warned not to do - for what should one expect at the end of such a period of persecution?


I never gave too much thought or study to the 3.5-year notion of endtime persecution that you suggested. I have encountered it in passing from radio preachers, but it did not seem to fit anything that I had studied in the Bible.

Revelation states that some will be persecuted 10-days. "Be thou faithful unto death" And there is evidence in the Spirit of prophecy that suggests that the 7 churches depict 7 periods of church history and in another sense, all seven churches coexist until Christ comes.

This I know. The persecution is going to begin soon enough. I hope it does not last 3.5-years - 10days would be to long from the perspective of the persecuted.

If you feel there is a case for 3.5-years of persecution; present the evidence and we can prayerfully look at it.

And remember. Jesus says that if we don't watch we won't know the day and the hour. What are we to watch? The prophecies of Daniel and Revelation. Are we to search for the day and the hour? NO. But as the fig tree puts its leaves on in spring we are to know when it is spring and discern that the figs leaves are on the plant when they are there.

Originally Posted By: Revelation 3:3
If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.


Originally Posted By: EGW
we heard the voice of God like many waters, which gave us the day and hour of Jesus' coming. The living saints, 144,000, in number, know and understand the voice, while the wicked thought it was thunder & an earthquake. When God spake the time, he poured on us the Holy Ghost, and our faces began to light up and shine with the glory of God as Moses did when he came down from Mount Sinai, (Exodus 34:30-34.){DS, January 24, 1846 par. 1}


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: His child] #133262
05/05/11 05:58 PM
05/05/11 05:58 PM
Rosangela  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,154
Brazil
Quote:
If you feel there is a case for 3.5-years of persecution; present the evidence and we can prayerfully look at it.

Of course I don't, since I don't believe in a day/day interpretation of prophecies. But many do, as the following post shows:

http://www.maritime-sda-online.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=122929#Post122929

It's also worth to take a look at the whole thread. It's a short one, but it has Eugene Prewitt and Colin Standish's valuable contributions.

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