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Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: Charity] #134312
06/09/11 10:22 AM
06/09/11 10:22 AM
C
Charity  Offline OP
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I've seen this repeatedly. Men have unique views of prophecy and are able to convince others of their views. The size of the following tends to be their test of whether they're on the right track. This is a false test. The only safe way of knowing whether you or I are on the right track is by testing our ideas on others with experience who are not our direct disciples.

Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: His child] #134320
06/09/11 04:05 PM
06/09/11 04:05 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: His child
M: You wrote, "we should know by 1 Jan 2014 (probably sooner) and I would be the first to admit I was wrong". If President Obama is reelected does that mean the latest possible day Jesus will return would be 1 Jan 2018?

HC: You ask me to be a prophet. I follow the prophecies but do not know more than they reveal. Daniel 2 reveals the events that relate to king Nebuchadnezzar's dynasty, 4 great world empires, the degeneration of religion within these kingdoms, and in light of Daniel 7:17 the metals, which are also symbolized by the lion, bear, leopard and the non-describable beast clearly relate to 4 kings which shall arise from the earth. They are Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, and the last one is Bush II and Obama.

Though I understood the last one as pagan Rome and papal Rome, I did not understand Bush II and Obama as two being one until after Bush II left office. "By their fulfillment Daniel and Revelation will explain themselves."

Then I understood Revelation 13. The first beast is the post-1929 papacy. John-Paul II is the wounded head that was healed. The ten horns on the post-1929 papal beast are the 10 American Presidents from Truman to Clinton. The beast with the lamblike horns is America. The two horns on it are Bush II and Obama.

Bush II is the "endtime Prince of the Covenant." He was put in office by apostate protestantism on the very day specified in prophecy. He set up the abomination that makes desolate in the midst of the week as prophesied. And John-Paul II (the pope that was to continue 42-months) died 1290-days after the abomination was set up. And Bush II reached his hand across the gulf to the Roman power, Spiritualism, and to the Roman power again. The blessing of the 1335-days is a blessing to those that know these things to be true. It is not a blessing to those that do not look at the facts and prayerfully consider the word of God.

"All that God has said in prophecy that applied to the past has been fulfilled in the past and that which applies to the future will be fulfilled in the future."

The apostle John states that there are many antichrists. "Those that don't know the identity of the [American] Antichrist in the endtime will be deceived by him."

How can the watchman give the right warning at the right time if he does not know the Present Truth for the hour? The false shepherd will defame the true and cry peace and safety when sudden destruction is about to overtake the people.

You didn't answer my question.

Quote:
M: I'm just trying to determine the parameters of your interpretation of prophecy. It's an unavoidable aspect of these types of interpretations, that is, interpretations that hard tie the return of Jesus to the tenure of specific world leaders creates a time table within which Jesus must return.

HC: I did not write the prophecy or the Bible. I am old, but not that old. When I should be studying and sharing the truth, I am out in the field (sometimes up to 10 hours a day at 90 plus degrees) baling hay and stacking wood from a saw mill. I have always had an indoor job and mostly a desk job. So now that I am over 60 I am having an opportunity to get some exercise to make ends meet. But I am in better shape than my elderly wife that should be getting out of the nursing home in a few days now that her therapy is finished (again).

I thank God for the exercise that I skimped on when I was younger. But I have written 6-books on Daniel (over 1000-pages) and still I get asked the same questions when the information is already documented.

My dilemma is how to work in the field, study, write, and keep up with the correspondences, and get the word out to those that are yet unreached. The Lord has blessed with an invitation to speak to a small group in a few weeks, and doors are beginning to open.

Invest in one of my books. read it. And if there is an error or if something is not clear ask away. Share the truth. And if you find an error, tell me about it and I will correct it.
But we are at the end of time. And though time is not to be the issue, we need to understand the time in which we live.

"Echoes of Doomsday" is up to date.
http://stores.lulu.com/DanielsRevelation
if that link does not work google the link
and read the preview it will be a blessing

The loud cry is sounding. And soon everybody will know the truth, but it will be too late to do most folks any good.

True, you didn't write the prophecies. However, it is equally true you have interpreted them. My question and comment concerns your interpretation. The nature and essence of your interpretation requires Jesus to return within the tenure of President Obama. This being the case, you are remiss in refusing to pinpoint the time frame within which Jesus must return. From what you've said thus far, it is clear Jesus must return by 1 Jan 2014 or 1 Jan 2018 (depending on if President Obama is reelected). Do you deny these dates?

Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: Charity] #134345
06/10/11 12:26 AM
06/10/11 12:26 AM
His child  Offline
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Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
Originally Posted By: His child
Though I understood the last one as pagan Rome and papal Rome, I did not understand Bush II and Obama as two being one until after Bush II left office.

. . .

The loud cry is sounding. And soon everybody will know the truth, but it will be too late to do most folks any good.

HC, you say you'll correct your errors if your interpretations prove false. Is that the way we're to interprete prophecy? Aren't we to test our ideas first on men and women of experience before we run with a message? Before publishing hundreds of pages of your views, how well were they tested?


Mark I have approached men of experience for years, but they don't want to be bothered. I had to study the Spirit of Prophecy for counsel to guide after they failed to do their part.

Originally Posted By: EGW
If our brethren were all laborers together with God, they would not doubt but that the message he has sent us during these last two years is from heaven. Our young men look to our older brethren, and as they see that they do not accept the message, but treat it as though it were of no consequence, it influences those who are ignorant of the Scriptures to reject the light. These men who refuse to receive truth, interpose themselves between the people and the light. But there is no excuse for any one's refusing the light, for it has been plainly revealed. There is no need of any one's being in ignorance. We must clear the King's highway; for God will remove hindrances out of the way. God calls you to come up to his help against the mighty. Instead of pressing your weight against the chariot of truth that is being pulled up an inclined road, you should work with all the energy you can summon to push it on. Shall we repeat the history of the Jews in our work? The leaders of the people in the time of Christ brought all their power to bear against the work of Christ, that his way might be hedged up. The people must go to God for themselves, and pray that all wrong impressions may be removed from their hearts,--pray that the word of God may not be clouded by men's interpretations. {RH, March 18, 1890 par. 5}


Originally Posted By: EGW
I know that God has moved upon me to write, and now if it is left for me to take up the burden of bringing these books to the attention of the people, I can do this, though I know that the work ought to rest upon others. Now I ask my brethren, are matters to continue as they have been for the last two years? I wish to know now, because I shall feel it my duty at once to take up the book you manifest no interest in. If I had only understood, at the outset, the turn that was to be given to Bible Readings, I could have taken my work into my own hands, and thus have saved this long delay. My children have counseled me to wait a while longer before speaking out, but I dare not do so. I have looked and waited for some one to place Vol. IV in the position it should be, until hope has died out of my heart. {1888 662.2}
After carrying the burden of writing the book, and getting it through the press, I trusted that I could then lay it in the hands of my brethren,--that they would understand and appreciate its importance, and would take up their part of the work without any urging from me. But if I alone have been made to feel the sacred, solemn importance of scattering the rays of light for this time of peril, may the Lord strengthen me for the work. I will delay no longer, but will look to the Captain of my salvation and promptly obey. {1888 662.3}


But any one of you that are reading this can study my books and stand in the gap for those that proved themselves unworthy. The sooner you come up to the task, the better. If I am in error I will correct the error or withdraw the books. And when you see the truthfulness of God's word in these books, you are obligated to share the Present Truth.


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: Mountain Man] #134346
06/10/11 12:49 AM
06/10/11 12:49 AM
His child  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man

True, you didn't write the prophecies. However, it is equally true you have interpreted them. My question and comment concerns your interpretation. The nature and essence of your interpretation requires Jesus to return within the tenure of President Obama. This being the case, you are remiss in refusing to pinpoint the time frame within which Jesus must return. From what you've said thus far, it is clear Jesus must return by 1 Jan 2014 or 1 Jan 2018 (depending on if President Obama is reelected). Do you deny these dates?


MM Listen to yourself trying to set times and dates. "Time will never be the test of God's people again." In the parable of the fig tree it is evident that it is time for the tree to bear fruit.

I gave you what I understand at this point in time showing that the Mark of the Beast is at hand. That will be the test. Know that it is at the door and prepare for the test before it comes. Had the disciples prepared before Jesus was betrayed, they would have had reacted differently in the Garden.

"By their fulfillment Daniel and Revelation will explain themselves." As prophecy and history continue to merge, more will come to light. But don't let me do your thinking for you.

What you are doing is confusing what I have said. In your mind, you think I'm preaching time and you are trying to make me do what you think it is that I am doing.

As John and Daniel explain themselves, we will see how long Mr. Obama and Pope Benedict are in office. But by faith we can know what the prophecies forewarn of them and we can warn others to get ready. So ply games with the word of God if you think it will bring Him glory. Or take the wait and see attitude of the 5 foolish virgins if that is what you think God would have you to do.

By faith I see the prophecies as I have explained them and I will stand by what I see until history and prophecy give more clarification.


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: Charity] #134347
06/10/11 01:08 AM
06/10/11 01:08 AM
His child  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Originally Posted By: Mark Shipowick
I've seen this repeatedly. Men have unique views of prophecy and are able to convince others of their views. The size of the following tends to be their test of whether they're on the right track. This is a false test. The only safe way of knowing whether you or I are on the right track is by testing our ideas on others with experience who are not our direct disciples.


Mark:
Sometimes it is difficult to distinguish between truth and error. It was difficult in Jeremiah's day, the priests and rulers chose Hananiah over Jeremiah. Of course from our vantage point we see how foolish they were, it is so clear to us.

The only way is to test ideas of godly people that are led by the Spirit. And the Lord knows how hard I tried. But all of them that I could get to past the gate keepers walk in the sparks of their own kindling. And still others have their gate keepers.

Remember the FORD affair? The Church was too busy to listen until he got something moving. Then they spent millions on damage control. Should I expect different treatment?

But Mark you can study it and give your report. You can be one of these men of experience who are not a direct disciples.

In God's time this message will catch on and people will be blessed because it is the last warning. Believe it or not.


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: His child] #134351
06/10/11 02:25 AM
06/10/11 02:25 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: His child
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man

True, you didn't write the prophecies. However, it is equally true you have interpreted them. My question and comment concerns your interpretation. The nature and essence of your interpretation requires Jesus to return within the tenure of President Obama. This being the case, you are remiss in refusing to pinpoint the time frame within which Jesus must return. From what you've said thus far, it is clear Jesus must return by 1 Jan 2014 or 1 Jan 2018 (depending on if President Obama is reelected). Do you deny these dates?


MM Listen to yourself trying to set times and dates. "Time will never be the test of God's people again." In the parable of the fig tree it is evident that it is time for the tree to bear fruit.

I gave you what I understand at this point in time showing that the Mark of the Beast is at hand. That will be the test. Know that it is at the door and prepare for the test before it comes. Had the disciples prepared before Jesus was betrayed, they would have had reacted differently in the Garden.

"By their fulfillment Daniel and Revelation will explain themselves." As prophecy and history continue to merge, more will come to light. But don't let me do your thinking for you.

What you are doing is confusing what I have said. In your mind, you think I'm preaching time and you are trying to make me do what you think it is that I am doing.

As John and Daniel explain themselves, we will see how long Mr. Obama and Pope Benedict are in office. But by faith we can know what the prophecies forewarn of them and we can warn others to get ready. So ply games with the word of God if you think it will bring Him glory. Or take the wait and see attitude of the 5 foolish virgins if that is what you think God would have you to do.

By faith I see the prophecies as I have explained them and I will stand by what I see until history and prophecy give more clarification.

Are you saying Jesus will not return before President Obama leaves office (1 Jan 2014 or 1 Jan 2018)?

Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: Mountain Man] #134352
06/10/11 02:29 AM
06/10/11 02:29 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: His Child
Or take the wait and see attitude of the 5 foolish virgins if that is what you think God would have you to do.

Please refrain from making these kinds of comments. They are completely unnecessary and totally counterproductive. Thank you. Just because I disagree with your interpretation it doesn't mean I'm a fool or unfaithful.

Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: His child] #134353
06/10/11 09:26 AM
06/10/11 09:26 AM
C
Charity  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2020

4500+ Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
Originally Posted By: His child


Mark:
Remember the FORD affair? The Church was too busy to listen until he got something moving. Then they spent millions on damage control. Should I expect different treatment?

But Mark you can study it and give your report. You can be one of these men of experience who are not a direct disciples.


The Ford affair didn't need to happen if Ford had been willing to listen to the brethern that did talk to him before the church had to take action.

I'd just encourage you to keep dialoging here with us. That's what I do when I have a new idea. I come to MSDA and try it out. Lot's of people disagree with me. Some agree. I don't guage the truthfulness of my position by counting the numbers of those who agree or disagree. I look at the scriptural evidence they present - and the more experience they seem to have, the better their overall understanding of the three angel's messages, the more weight I give to their position.

Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: Mountain Man] #134355
06/10/11 10:40 AM
06/10/11 10:40 AM
His child  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man

Are you saying Jesus will not return before President Obama leaves office (1 Jan 2014 or 1 Jan 2018)?


MM As I read the prophecy President Obama is in office when Christ comes.


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Obscure Prophetic Statements by EG White [Re: Mountain Man] #134356
06/10/11 10:53 AM
06/10/11 10:53 AM
His child  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Originally Posted By: His Child
Or take the wait and see attitude of the 5 foolish virgins if that is what you think God would have you to do.

Please refrain from making these kinds of comments. They are completely unnecessary and totally counterproductive. Thank you. Just because I disagree with your interpretation it doesn't mean I'm a fool or unfaithful.


MM I apologize that my use of this warning was not received as I intended it to be applied. My intention is not to point fingers at anyone as being a fool or unfaithful, but to warn against falling into that trap.

Satan has us on enchanted ground according to the Spirit of Prophecy. His aim is to keep us asleep until it is too late and we are eternally lost.

It is not and has never been a matter of agreeing with me. The issue is looking at the prophecies prayerfully and determining if a private interpretation has crept into the church or if I am giving the private interpretation.

Satan has tweeked our prophetic understanding to keep us in darkness and if we don't awake in time, we are lost. That is a sobering thought that should arouse us to action. We are for God or against Him. There is no middle ground. If I speak the truth and people refuse it or do not agree, it is nothing to do with me it is to do with God.

The solution is so simple. Look at all the facts in their proper setting and make an intelligent decision to follow God come what may.


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
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