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Michael the Archangel “one who is God.” #138155
12/16/11 09:41 AM
12/16/11 09:41 AM
Rick H  Offline
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For some reason, the understanding of Christ pre-incarnate is very controversial, as people get confused for the "Title" which refer to Jesus. Now, Jesus is NOT a created Angel. He is fully Man, fully God, the Messiah, the Christ, and Lord and Saviour. Jesus is Eternal. Jesus was never created. Jesus is Eternal as the Father and Holy Spirit are Eternal. Jesus has always been and always will be.

Jesus is the angel of the LORD, the angel of God, the Archangel Michael (the principle messenger - but not a created being), who appeared time and again in the Old Testament to speak directly to His people, prior to the incarnation.

Michael is just another "Title" to refer to Jesus just as Lamb and Lion is. Michael is not a created Angel. Michael the Archangel is only a name or title.

First let's look at the phrase 'angel of the LORD' in the story of Moses and the burning bush

Exodus 3:2
And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.


Now look at the following verses and who is identified as being in the bush?

Exo 3:4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
Exo 3:6 Moreover he said,*I am* the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Notice that the 'angel of the LORD' is really none other than God Himself and we have more...

Acts 7:29-31
King James Version (KJV)


29Then fled Moses at this saying, and was a stranger in the land of Madian, where he begat two sons.

30And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.

31When Moses saw it, he wondered at the sight: and as he drew near to behold it, the voice of the LORD came unto him,

Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.” [Re: Rick H] #138156
12/16/11 09:49 AM
12/16/11 09:49 AM
Rick H  Offline
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So then we have the following exchange...

Exodus 3:14
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

and who but Christ says this...

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.

Jesus Christ had just identified Himself as the One who is the God of the Old Testament patriarchs, who was present in the burning bush speaking to Moses and the Jews knew exactly what Jesus meant as seen in what happens.

John 8:57-59
King James Version (KJV)


57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

59Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.” [Re: Rick H] #138157
12/16/11 10:05 AM
12/16/11 10:05 AM
Rick H  Offline
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So we see that Jesus is the 'Angel of the Lord', so now lets look at Michael the Archangel.

The name “Michael” signifies “one who is God.” The word “Archangel” means “ chief or head of the angels.”

Let’s turn to the 9th verse of Jude.
Here Jude is referring to a very well known example of God’s great salvation by Christ our Mediator, the Angel of the Covenant.

(Jude 1:9) Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

In verse 8 Jude denounced those false prophets who crept into the church, claiming to be messengers of Christ as “filthy dreamers,” who “defile the flesh”. These “filthy dreamers,” he tells us,“despise dominions.” That is to say, they despise the fact that God is God, despise and refuse to bow to Christ the Lord. It appears he is talking about the Gnostic sects who are sowing confusion even at this time about the diety of Christ.

And Jude also they “speak evil of dignities.” They blaspheme the glories of Christ our God, and Jude then goes on to show Christ pre-incarnate who as Michael shows up in the Bible specifically in the context of direct conflict with Satan.

But there is more...on Michael, our great Archangel, when the contention between Christ our Advocate and the devil is described in great detail in Zechariah 3.

(Zechariah 3:1-5) And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.(2) And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?(3) Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.(4) And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.(5) And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the LORD stood by.

Here, he stands before the Lord God conscious of his guilt and sin. Joshua is here said to be “standing before the Angel of the Lord”(v. 1). In verse 3 we read, “Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the Lord.”— In verse 5 Zechariah says,“and the Angel of the Lord stood by.”

The Angel of the Lord standing by is Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Now, he is not one of the angelic hosts that he created. He is called “the Angel of the Lord,” because he is Jehovah’s Messenger, the Angel of the covenant.

The One who is called,“the Angel of the Lord” in verse 1, is Jehovah himself. We know that because he is called,“the Lord”(Jehovah) in verse 2. This Man who is God, the Angel of the Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ, is our almighty Advocate and effectual Intercessor (Heb. 7:24-27; 1 John 2:1-2).

Notice that again he says the same words as Christ "And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan"

Joshua said nothing. Joshua did nothing. He stood in silence before the Angel of the Lord; and the Lord pleaded his cause, and he definitely shows the Angel as “one who is God”.(Micah 7:8-9, 18-20).

In both Jude 9 and Zech 3:1-2 it is Jesus, the *angel of the LORD* who is also *Michael the archangel*, contending with Satan for both Moses and Joshua.

If you look carefully you see that Jude is quoting from Zechariah 3:2. "And the Lord said to Satan,'the Lord rebuke you".
Zechariah and Jude have both the Lord and Michael the archangel say the exact same thing, "the lord rebuke you".. This identifies both beings as the same person.

Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.” [Re: Rick H] #138158
12/16/11 10:06 AM
12/16/11 10:06 AM
Rick H  Offline
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Daniel was told by the angel Gabriel,“The angel prince of the kingdom of Persia opposed me for twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief angels, came to help me… Now I have to go back and fight the guardian angel of Persia. After that the guardian angel of Greece will appear. There is no one to help me except Michael, Israel’s guardian angel. He is responsible for helping and defending me.” Daniel 10:13,20; 11:1

Later Daniel refers to him as “the great prince” Daniel 12:1 and as we see in Jude he is called “the archangel” when he disputed with Satan over the body of Moses. It is the voice of the archangel, this title given to Michael, who is associated with the raising of the dead at the 2nd coming.“There will be the shout of command, the archangel’s voice, the sound of God’s trumpet, and the Lord himself will come down from heaven. Those who have died believing in Christ will rise to life first…” 1 Thessalonians 4:16

The relationship between the resurrection and Michael is reinforced in Daniel when,“the great angel Michael, who guards your people, will appear…many of those who have already died will live again…” Daniel 12:1,2

But scripture tells us that it is Christ's voice that will raise the dead.“The dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear it will come to life…the time is coming when all the dead will hear his voice and come out of their graves…” John 5:25,28,29

Again we see the connection as to who is Michael the Archangel “one who is God.”

Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.” [Re: Rick H] #138159
12/16/11 10:13 AM
12/16/11 10:13 AM
Rick H  Offline
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The word “archangel” is used only five times in Holy Scripture (Dan. 10:13, 21; 12:1; 1 Thess. 4:16; Jude 9). Every time it is used, it is singular. There is and can only be one archangel. And that one Archangel is named Michael and yet is shown as doing what also applies to Christ.

In Revelation 12, Michael is shown as the leader of the angels in the fight against Satan, and then later in Revelation 19, it says it is Jesus who leads the charge as “The armies of heaven followed him.”

The work described in Revelation 12:7-9 is the work of Christ himself, and look at this...

Revelation 20
1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

and compare who fights with the dragon...



(Revelation 12:7-9) And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,(8) And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.(9) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.” [Re: Rick H] #138160
12/16/11 10:18 AM
12/16/11 10:18 AM
Rick H  Offline
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Jesus Christ is the preeminent Angel of the Lord, the Head, the Chief Messenger of God, an dis called “the angel of his presence”(Isa. 63:9), by whom we are saved. He is the Angel of the covenant (Mal. 3:1). But Jesus is not a created Angel, but the eternal “angel of his presence,” who is himself our God.

Then in the Old Testament you can find where God is referred to as an angel. It was “the angel of the LORD” that helped Hagar in the desert, but yet she would say,“Have I really seen God and lived to tell about it?” Genesis 16:7,13

It was “the LORD’s angel” who came to Gideon, but during the conversation it was “the LORD” who answered Gideon, and Gideon asked,“Give me some proof that you are really the LORD.” Judges 6:11,16,17.

Finally, who led the Israelites through the desert?“My angel will go ahead of you and take you into the land of the Amorites…”(Exodus 23:23) But yet Paul says that the One who led the Israelites through the desert was none other than Jesus!“They drank from the spiritual rock that went with them; and that rock was Christ himself.”(1 Corinthians 10:4)

Now Scripture is clear, that there is only one God, who is, who was, and who is to come as we see in the Old Testament.

Deuteronomy 6:4-5
The Lord is our God, the Lord is one! You shall love the Lord your God, with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

Now, God does not allow worship to anyone but Him.

Exodus 34:14
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

Twice in Revelation, John was forbidden to fall at the feet of the angel (Revelation 19:10 and Revelation 22: 8-9).
However, when Joshua met the angelic general (Joshua 5:3-15), he was not forbidden from performing this act of worship. Instead, just like the encounter of Moses with God at the burning bush, Joshua was told to take off his shoes because he was standing on holy ground. This leader of the angels was God

Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.” [Re: Rick H] #138161
12/16/11 10:25 AM
12/16/11 10:25 AM
Rick H  Offline
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1 Thessalonians 4:16 states that at the second coming the Lord shall descend with a shout, with the voice of the Archangel. If he shouts with a voice it must be his voice. The Lord is the Archangel. Furthermore, this voice raises the dead and only God can raise the dead.

Paul frequently refers to Jesus as `Lord' in 1 Corinthians in such a way as to identify him as, or equate him with, the Lord Jehovah of the Old Testament.... Paul says that Christians hope to be found `blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ '(1:8; see also 5:5), whereas the Old Testament spoke of that judgment day as the day of Jehovah (e.g., Joel 1:15; 2:1, 11, 31).... Paul's language clearly refers to Jesus as if he were Jehovah.

Thus Jehovah shows Himself in the position as leader of the angelic host at the day of judgement, or second coming the Lord. It all comes together, Michael represents the pre-existent Jesus in angelic form, the Lord of the Host, before He came down, and as the One who gave Himself for salvation after sin came in, He also in scripture reveals Himself as the Messiah or Christ, as seen in the Second Coming.

Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.” [Re: Rick H] #138162
12/16/11 04:36 PM
12/16/11 04:36 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Amen! One of Jesus' many names and titles is Michael, the Archangel.

Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.” [Re: Mountain Man] #138174
12/16/11 11:33 PM
12/16/11 11:33 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Here's my study on the topic of Michael the Archangel.

The word "Michael" occurs but twice in the New Testament, once each in Jude and Revelation. Also, the word "archangel" occurs but twice in the entire Bible. However, the words "Michael" and "archangel" are clearly tied in Jude.

The word "archangel" is the word which throws people off most. The fact that "angel" is usually considered a created being is the tricky part. We forget the real meaning of "angel." The word means "messenger of God." Here is the full definition of "angel" from the Greek word, according to my Strong's Concordance:

angelos, n. angel, messenger; this can refer to a human messenger, such as John the Baptist, or messengers sent by John the Baptist or Jesus, or to the supernatural class of being that serves God: the angel:-- angel [96], angels [80], messenger [4], messengers [3], angel's [2]

Now I would ask two questions: 1) Was Jesus a human? and 2) Was Jesus a messenger, sent by God? My answers to both of these are in the affirmative. So, by this definition, one could even have used the term "angel" for Jesus. However, there is nothing in the definition of "angel" which implies that it must be a created being! (Here is where our traditional concepts can throw us off the track of truth.)

Now, apart from that little side-trip, I will not hereafter attempt to call Jesus an angel, for it is to be noted that the Bible does not try to confuse us by doing this. The Bible writers were careful to use the term for beings other than God Himself, unlike the term "son of man" which can be applied to Jesus, to Ezekiel, or to any number of men.

However, the term "archangel" is not the same Greek word as "angel." As previously noted, it is used but twice. The definition in the concordance is not helpful, saying that the word means "archangel" with no additional information. From that, I might safely conclude that the word is not fully understood. When I find that word in the dictionary, it says archangel means "an angel of the highest order," and that the prefix "arch-" means "chief" or "principal," which to me still leave questions.

It is said that "archangel" means "over all the angels." If you accept this, then the being that is "over" the angels may or may not be an angel himself--simply their superior.

Now, laying the definitions themselves aside, let's look at the identity of Michael. On this point, we can be very clear. There can be no mistake as to who Michael is.

Michael is mentioned in Daniel 10:13. "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: bu, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes [marginal note: Or, the first], came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia."

In Daniel 12:1, Michael is further identified: "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people...and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book."

So, Michael is "the great prince" who stands "for the children of thy people." Who is this prince? Just three chapters earlier, we read this: "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks..."

So, here we have a clear reference to "THE Prince." We know who the Messiah is--that is Jesus. We also know that "prince" means the son of a king. I don't see how the angels (the created messengers of heaven) would be called by this term, do you? So to me, it is quite clear.

Now, if you accept that "archangel" means "over the angels," how many would fit this description? Certainly, Jesus would fit. But we also have God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. Depending now on whether or not an angel could also fill this position, perhaps you would have Gabriel (or even other commanding angels). So depending on the definitions (is God "one" or "three"; does Gabriel count), each one may interpret the number of archangels differently.

In conclusion:

1. Messiah is "the Prince."
2. Archangel means "over the angels" or "commander of the angels."
3. Jesus is the Messiah.
4. Jesus, as God, is over the angels (archangel).
5. Jesus pre-existed His earthly existence (John 1:1-14).
6. Jesus did not create Himself (this would be impossible)!
7. Jesus created everything; He is the Creator (Col. 1:14-16).

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Michael the Archangel “one who is God.” [Re: Green Cochoa] #138176
12/16/11 11:38 PM
12/16/11 11:38 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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The study continued...

There are three in the Godhead, yet the Godhead is one. Deuteronomy 6:4 says "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD."

We know that the word "God" in the Hebrew for this text is plural, and in the Creation, God said "Let US make man in OUR image." Thus, Jesus can be said to be but one of the "archangels," if we choose to define that as meaning "above/over the angels," for certainly, each member of the Godhead is above the angels. That is why I suggested that the actual number here is open to interpretation based on one's definitions.

Now, as for the plurality of "princes," one must recognize that in this particular conflict which the angel is describing, there is another prince involved, another "chief prince" even, who represents an entire legion of his own angels.

"But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days..." (Dan. 10:13) Which prince would that be?

How about this one: "Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out." (John 12:31 -- quoting Jesus). OR "Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me." (John 14:30 -- again quoting Jesus).

Or this one: "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience." (Ephesians 2:2)

Or this: "But the Pharisees said, He casteth out devils through the prince of the devils." (Matthew 9:34) AND "But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils." (Matthew 12:24)

Each of these texts speaks of another prince--a darker one. I'm sure you recognize of whom they speak. Yet he is indeed a "chief prince," being the archenemy of Jesus. These two princes stand as commanders for opposite sides of the conflict. Indeed, it is a battle between these commanding princes and their followers.

I think the fact that each of these two is called a "prince" has much to do with the symbolism of the positions which they have taken in the conflict. Satan wants to ascend to the throne, and become "King." Jesus, however, is defending His rightful position on that throne, and praise God, He is the victor!

Most will admit that in Dan. 10:13 the number of princes is not specified, only that there is more than one. I would submit that it may mean two--the two which are both referenced within the verse itself.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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