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Jesus died our Second death. #141402
04/20/12 11:36 PM
04/20/12 11:36 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
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I was privileged to witness something life changing.

I saw that the moment Jesus left the upper room and exited the Eastern Gate and crossed the brook Kidron on the east of Jerusalem, He was Jesus 'cut off' [Dan 9:26] from the Father. He was literally dying the second death, just as every person who is resurrected outside the New Jerusalem at the second resurrection will.

God gave me a vision then led me to all the proof I needed to learn more and see the meaning.

For three years I have been researching topics connected to the focus of my vision, Jesus fulfilling the Red Heifer sacrifice in Gethsemane, but in the process I discovered a little booklet from Joe Crews founder of Amazing Facts that perfectly illustrates why Jesus had to die the "Second Death".

The term Second death here means He died the death we all deserve, being cut off from the Father outside the Holy City. Our second death.

Here is an excerpt from this powerful pamphlet... The High Cost of the Cross...

Chapter 7 How the Cross Provides Forgiveness

But now we must consider another aspect of this heavenly drama which will further illuminate God's love and sacrifice. How does the death of one man, the second Adam, provide forgiveness for all who have sinned? The Bible says, "Without shedding of blood is no remission (of sins)." Hebrews 9:22. Remission, of course, means forgiveness. The question is, How does Christ's death make it possible for Him to forgive sin? This brings us to the crux of all we have learned so far. It was necessary for Jesus to suffer the second death in order to acquire the power to forgive.
The germ of all forgiveness is rooted in an act of substitution. Whoever forgives another person must actually substitute himself for the one he forgives, and be willing to suffer the consequences of the wrong done. For example, if I forgive someone a debt, I must be prepared to suffer the loss of the amount. If I forgive a blow, I must be willing to suffer the pain of it, without requiring the one who gave it to be punished.

Justice requires that every offender be recompensed in proportion to what he did: an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. The one who gives a blow must also suffer an equal blow in return. Forgiveness, though, relieves the offender from receiving what he legally deserves. The forgiver accepts the consequence himself in order that the guilty one can go free without punishment. Thus there is clearly a substitution of the innocent for the guilty in every act of forgiveness.

As a further demonstration let us imagine that a murdered man could forgive his murderer from beyond the grave. He would, in effect, be consenting to his own death in order that the killer would not be punished. By accepting the results of the offense against him, he allows his own death to satisfy the penalty which could be legally laid upon the murderer.

This illustration brings us very close to the heart of the atonement. We are dealing here with the readjustment of a jarred relationship. That is what atonement really is. Two parties are always involved, the wronged and the wrongdoer. In this case it is God, the wronged, and man, the one who sins against Him. Justice demands an adequate expiation of the sin. Only two courses are possible: either justice will exact the prescribed penalty, or there must be forgiveness from the offended one. If forgiveness is extended, the forgiver will have to accept the consequences of the sin, and suffer it in place of the guilty. The penalty for sin is death. So in order to grant forgiveness to the sinner, Jesus must be willing to bear in His own body the same punishment that the broken law would demand of the sinner.

The punishment for sin is not the first death, but the second death. That is why the protracted agony of Jesus on the cross was totally unlike any other death. Thousands of criminals were crucified in the same physical way that Christ was nailed to the cross, but they suffered only the bodily pain of the first death. He experienced the awful condemnation and separation from God that the vilest of sinners will feel in the lake of fire. His sensitive nature was traumatized by sharing vicariously the guilt of foul rapes, murders, and atrocities. He became sin in order to allow the full wrath of the law to fall upon Him in exactly the same way it would fall upon the lost.

In no other way can we explain the mysterious anguish of spirit which surrounded our Saviour in His closing hours of life. From the Garden of Gethsemane Jesus bore the accumulated sins of mankind on His breaking heart. Not one ray of light was permitted to penetrate the blanket of total alienation from His Father in heaven. In order to take the place of guilty sinners and to provide forgiveness there could be no difference in their penalty and His penalty.

Let no one suggest that the Father did not suffer equally with His Son. The divine forbearance of God in allowing wicked men to torture His Son to death is the ultimate proof that He loves us with the same love that He loved Jesus. The choice He faced was very simple. He could spare the Son or He could spare us. There was no other choice. The law had been broken-the law which was holy and perfect. As a reflection of His character it could not be changed or destroyed. The penalty had to be paid. The Father loved those who had broken His law, but He also loved His Son.

Look again at the scene around that cross. God looked upon those wicked men as they spat upon Jesus and hit Him in the face with their fists. They were unworthy to touch the hem of His garment, but they were mauling Him to death. He held the power in His hand to smite those little men into oblivion. He could save His Son from cruel taunts and blows, but if He intervened not one human being would ever live again. Adam, Abraham Joseph, Daniel, and every other child of Adam would be lost for eternity. Their resurrection depended wholly upon the death and resurrection of His Beloved Son. In His omniscience God must have remembered every individual face and name, even of those who had not yet been born.

In that moment God thought about you and me. Even though He saw all our miserable failures He still wanted us to be with Him for eternity. He knew the great majority would not accept the offer of eternal life with Him, even though it would be provided at such a fearful cost. But He also knew that a few would love Him and gladly receive the substitutionary death of His Son in their behalf. So God turned away from His Son, and allowed Him to be crushed to death under the weight of sins He did not commit. Even the sun hid its face from the terrible scene, and the earth shuddered in protest. "It is finished," Jesus cried, and yielded up His life. John 19:30.



Here is the whole pamphlet. I have been shown that this writing is a very powerful tool in helping people understand how much God really loves us.

High Cost of the Cross

Here's the link for my vision of Jesus dying our second death for us. http://redheifersbloodysweat.blogspot.com/2011/12/red-heifer.html


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: jamesonofthunder] #141475
04/22/12 03:16 PM
04/22/12 03:16 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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In consequence of Adam's sin, death passed upon the whole human race. All alike go down into the grave. And through the provisions of the plan of salvation, all are to be brought forth from their graves. "There shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust;" "for as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." Acts 24:15; 1 Corinthians 15:22. But a distinction is made between the two classes that are brought forth. "All that are in the graves shall hear His voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." John 5:28, 29. They who have been "accounted worthy" of the resurrection of life are "blessed and holy." "On such the second death hath no power." Revelation 20:6. But those who have not, through repentance and faith, secured pardon, must receive the penalty of transgression--"the wages of sin." They suffer punishment varying in duration and intensity, "according to their works," but finally ending in the second death. Since it is impossible for God, consistently with His justice and mercy, to save the sinner in his sins, He deprives him of the existence which his transgressions have forfeited and of which he has proved himself unworthy. Says an inspired writer: "Yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be." And another declares: "They shall be as though they had not been." Psalm 37:10; Obadiah 16. Covered with infamy, they sink into hopeless, eternal oblivion. {GC 544.2}

Israel's sin at Beth-peor brought the judgments of God upon the nation, and though the same sins may not now be punished as speedily, they will as surely meet retribution. "If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy." 1 Corinthians 3:17. Nature has affixed terrible penalties to these crimes--penalties which, sooner or later, will be inflicted upon every transgressor. It is these sins more than any other that have caused the fearful degeneracy of our race, and the weight of disease and misery with which the world is cursed. Men may succeed in concealing their transgression from their fellow men, but they will no less surely reap the result, in suffering, disease, imbecility, or death. And beyond this life stands the tribunal of the judgment, with its award of eternal penalties. "They which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God," but with Satan and evil angels shall have their part in that "lake of fire" which "is the second death." Galatians 5:21; Revelation 20:14. {PP 461.1}

God now calls upon you to repent, to be zealous in the work. Your eternal happiness will be determined by the course you now pursue. Can you reject the invitations of mercy now offered? Can you choose your own way? Will you cherish pride and vanity, and lose your soul at last? The word of God plainly tells us that few will be saved, and that the greater number of those, even, who are called will prove themselves unworthy of everlasting life. They will have no part in heaven, but will have their portion with Satan, and experience the second death. {2T 293.3}

Persecution has frightened many poor souls from the blood-stained banner of Prince Emmanuel to the black banner of the great apostate. For the sake of this life, they transgress the law of God, and in that day when all transgressors are destroyed, they will be bound up with Satan to suffer the second death. But while persecution from those who worship at false shrines will cause some to yield up the truth, it will never induce a true child of God to separate from Christ, in whom his hopes of eternal life are centered. {RH, April 19, 1898 par. 15}

On either side of this beautiful river is the tree of life. And the redeemed saints, who have loved God and kept his commandments here, will enter in through the gates of the City, and have right to the tree of life. They will eat freely of it, as our first parents did before their fall. The leaves of that immortal wide-spread tree will be for the healing of the nations. All their woes will then be gone. Sickness, sorrow and death they will never again feel, for the leaves of the tree of life have healed them. Jesus will then see of the travail of his soul [Isaiah 53:11] and be satisfied, when the redeemed, who have been subject to sorrow, toil and afflictions, who have groaned beneath the curse, are gathered up around that tree of life to eat of its immortal fruit, that our first parents forfeited all right to, by breaking God's commands. There will be no danger of their ever losing right to the tree of life again, for he that tempted our first parents to sin, will be destroyed by the second death. {YI, October 1, 1852 par. 3}

Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: Mountain Man] #141476
04/22/12 03:38 PM
04/22/12 03:38 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Nowhere in the Bible or the SOP does it say Jesus died the second death. Wherever the second death is mentioned Satan, the scapegoat, is the one who dies with (not for) the sins of the saved. Jesus "tasted death" as our substitute. He paid the sin debt of death for the entire world. He satisfied the death demands of law and justice on our behalf and thereby earned the right to pardon and save the penitent. But did He do it by succumbing to the second death? Or, did He do it by consuming and conquering it? Is He not the lawful owner of our sin and second death? And, is it not His duty to eliminate them with Satan in the lake of fire? Ellen wrote:

Quote:
Christ did not yield up His life till He had accomplished the work which He came to do, and with His parting breath He exclaimed, "It is finished." John 19:30. The battle had been won. His right hand and His holy arm had gotten Him the victory. As a Conqueror He planted His banner on the eternal heights. Was there not joy among the angels? All heaven triumphed in the Saviour's victory. Satan was defeated, and knew that his kingdom was lost. {DA 758.1}

"Christ did not yield up His life till He had accomplished the work which He came to do". Jesus earned the right to pardon and save the penitent before He died. Instead of the second death defeating Jesus, Jesus defeated the second death. He endured all that the second death could heap upon Him, but it wasn't enough to kill Him. He survived it and became our eternal Savior. Had Jesus succumbed to it, it would have owned Him. He would have remained in the grave forever. There is no resurrection from the second death.

No one or no thing killed Jesus. He voluntarily laid down His life, but not until after "He had accomplished the work which He came to do". Jesus said, "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." Jesus tasted, consumed, and conquered the cup of second death. He entered and existed the domain of death using the keys of hell and of death, thus demonstrating his victory over sin and death. In the end, Jesus will lay the sins of the saved upon the head of Satan, the scapegoat, who will die with their sins in the lake of fire, which is the second death.

Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: Mountain Man] #141477
04/22/12 03:57 PM
04/22/12 03:57 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
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Posts: 3,613
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
Nowhere in the Bible or the SOP does it say Jesus died the second death. Wherever the second death is mentioned Satan, the scapegoat, is the one who dies with (not for) the sins of the saved.


Wow, do you not know how the priest has to carry the sins to place them on the head of the scapegoat? Do you not know that two offerings were made, the one for the Lord and the scapegoat on the day of atonement? You make a pretty bold assertion after all the evidence I provided that I thought you read but obviously you didn't.

If you think you are so versed in the second death imagery can you tell me where it found in scripture? Why did Jesus sweat blood in Gethsemane? Why did He cry "why hast thou forsaken me Father" on the cross? How were the three days and three nights sign of Jonah fulfilled?

Here is a big clue brother... The Red Heifer. You will not understand.

Do you know the elements of the Atonement that you quoted about the scapegoat?

The 'strong man' who leads the scapegoat out the eastern gate over the bridge of the Red Heifer to the wilderness of forgetfulness are those filled with the Holy Spirit at the end of probation, proclaiming the loud cry, and leading Satan and his followers to perdition. The strong man are the 144,000 who find the path at the top of Mount Olives where the Miphkad Altar (Altar for the Red Heifer) stood. Miphkad means 'place of numbering' this is the place the 144,000 lead the scapegoat to the second coming when Christ is fully in us, the hope of glory.

Did you know any of this about the Atonement sacrifice of the scapegoat? But you assert your opinion in direct contrast to someone who has intensively studied this message since I received a vision?

Does that sound rational to you?


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: jamesonofthunder] #141480
04/22/12 04:15 PM
04/22/12 04:15 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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James, please take it easy. Be careful. State your view without insisting I am clueless or uninformed if I don't agree with you.

Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: Mountain Man] #141482
04/22/12 04:20 PM
04/22/12 04:20 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
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Tell me what you know of Atonement to make your case please.

You do know that the Scapegoat is part of atonement right?


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: jamesonofthunder] #141487
04/22/12 04:42 PM
04/22/12 04:42 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Two goats were chosen on the Day of Atonement. Lots were cast to determine which one would die as the Lord's Goat and which one would serve as the Scapegoat. The blood of the Lord's Goat allowed the High Priest to enter the Most Holy Place and extract the sins of the nation. He then placed the sins of the saved on the head of the Scapegoat, which was then led into the wilderness by the hand of a fit man to perish with their sins.

Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: Mountain Man] #141489
04/22/12 04:46 PM
04/22/12 04:46 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
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Yes, correct. What happened to the one for the Lord? It was killed and the body burned 'outside the camp' on the Miphkad altar on the top of Mount Olives just above Gethsemane where Jesus sweat great drops of blood saying "If this cup cannot pass unless I drink it, your will be done", accepting His baptism of blood as Mrs White said. This is where He died for our sins and had "victory over Satan" says the Spirit of Prophecy.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: jamesonofthunder] #141490
04/22/12 04:50 PM
04/22/12 04:50 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
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In order for the Lord to have the right to transfer the sins to the head of the scapegoat first He must die the second death since everyone dies the first death and this is not the penalty for sins. Millions died on a cross but only one of them was 'cut off' [Dan 9:26] from the Father with the sins of the world upon His head.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: jamesonofthunder] #141491
04/22/12 05:35 PM
04/22/12 05:35 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
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The second resurrection is where we all deserve to be resurrected. Jesus had to die that death in order to pay for the sins of the world. in the name of Jesus I defend what God showed me through the Spirit of Prophecy. I don't want it to offend, but to stimulate a response, I hope you see.

I am always asked, why do you snap? I say "what did Jesus say to Peter when he contradicted the word of the Lord?" Always silence.

The Spirit of Elijah is here, we have full access to the heavenly storehouse of knowledge and how many swim in that pool? How many even know of it's existence? The church has neglected the truth. Soon the source of grace will be extinguished and the decree will go forth 'let him that be Holy be Holy still...' and the wicked?

Elijah and John the baptist called false doctrines to the mat and took them on to the point of offending men in high places. That's what our message will be to the leaders soon. How much more for those who claim to know and are wrong? They never go quietly. You wouldn't believe the hateful things I've seen in our church. But I praise God that we are His church.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
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