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Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: Mountain Man] #141911
05/03/12 07:55 PM
05/03/12 07:55 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man
We refer to Bible personalities by their first names - Moses, Elijah, Peter, Paul, etc.


So if a man who never met your mama started calling her by her first name this would not offend you? Did anyone in the history of our church have the audacity to do as you do? "Hey Ellen!"

Moses didn't have a last name like we do. Peter was the 'Son of Zebedee', or they associated them by their place of origin. They called themselves in their written works by their first names after their full titles were established.

But they never did anything contrary to civility. Why do you think we, after the pioneers, established the protocol of calling people by 'Brother' or 'sister'?


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: jamesonofthunder] #141919
05/04/12 12:00 AM
05/04/12 12:00 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
Your pride is in the way brother. You have not apologized or corrected for making the false statement...

"Pastor Rodriquez did not say Jesus died the second death."

Why is this so hard for you to do? You do know humility is a sign of the Spirit don't you? If I find I make a mistake, I am motivated by God to apologize and correct it as proven on this website. It is a hard pill to swallow but if you do not then you have no part in Christ.

Pride has nothing to do with it. Pastor Rodriquez did not say Jesus died the second death. He inferred Jesus suffered the mental and emotional aspects associated with it. You pointed this out earlier on this thread. You wrote - "SEPARATION FROM THE FATHER IS THE PUNISHMENT FOR SIN. Not the physical death." "So it was in Gethsemane that Jesus died in our stead suffering the THE DEATH pronounced upon transgressors?" Jesus did not die in Gethsemane. And the "separation" you speak of ended on the cross before Jesus laid down His life.

Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: jamesonofthunder] #141920
05/04/12 12:08 AM
05/04/12 12:08 AM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
M: We refer to Bible personalities by their first names - Moses, Elijah, Peter, Paul, etc.

J: So if a man who never met your mama started calling her by her first name this would not offend you? Did anyone in the history of our church have the audacity to do as you do? "Hey Ellen!" Moses didn't have a last name like we do. Peter was the 'Son of Zebedee', or they associated them by their place of origin. They called themselves in their written works by their first names after their full titles were established. But they never did anything contrary to civility. Why do you think we, after the pioneers, established the protocol of calling people by 'Brother' or 'sister'?

If using her first name by itself is offensive to you, I will, out of respect for you, use her full name when responding to your posts.

Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: Mountain Man] #141923
05/04/12 01:34 AM
05/04/12 01:34 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Mountain Man

Pride has nothing to do with it. Pastor Rodriquez did not say Jesus died the second death. He inferred Jesus suffered the mental and emotional aspects associated with it. You pointed this out earlier on this thread. You wrote - "SEPARATION FROM THE FATHER IS THE PUNISHMENT FOR SIN. Not the physical death." "So it was in Gethsemane that Jesus died in our stead suffering the THE DEATH pronounced upon transgressors?" Jesus did not die in Gethsemane. And the "separation" you speak of ended on the cross before Jesus laid down His life.


Are you reading the same article or Are you trying to get a rise out of me? *****STAFF EDIT*****

In the same article he said "It's impossible for us to understand fully what the second death entails, because the only one who went through it and came back was Jesus.

And he also said, "This is unquestionably the second death."

*****STAFF EDIT*****



Last edited by Green Cochoa; 06/23/12 10:53 PM. Reason: Staff Edit to remove inappropriate remarks

Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: jamesonofthunder] #141924
05/04/12 01:45 AM
05/04/12 01:45 AM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
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Just to clarify that you are reading the same article;

http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/Biblequestions/secondeath.htm

"Surviving the Second Death"
By Ángel Manuel Rodríguez

"As a church we hold that sinners who die "the second death" will stay dead forever. Should not Christ, who experienced this death as our substitute, also stay dead forever?"

I'm telling you, if you do not soften your heart and repent for this wicked behavior it doesn't matter how many people here like you, God will not hold you unaccountable in the end because you will be seen as a liar in the Spirit Just as Ananias was.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: jamesonofthunder] #141940
05/04/12 01:34 PM
05/04/12 01:34 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 24,540
Nova Scotia, Canada
It is my understanding from reading that article from the BRI is that Christ died the Second Death as the Substitute for all those who have accepted Him, are accepting Him, and will accept Him, as the Lamb of God.

It is also my understanding that there normally isn't any resurrection from the Second Death, except for the fact that in Christ's case, there was no sin of His own found in Him, but only the sins of others that He took upon Himself as the Substitute for all those who have accepted Him, are accepting Him, and will accept Him, as the Lamb of God. This is the only reason why Christ was able to come from the Second Death that He experienced, tasted, suffered, etc. It is my understanding that to experience, taste, suffer, etc. is to actually die as a result.

All the details surrounding this is too hard for us to understand, therefore, we must accept it by faith until we see our Substitute face to face.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: Daryl] #141954
05/04/12 04:32 PM
05/04/12 04:32 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
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Thank you Father for Brothers like Daryl F. Please bless him. In Jesus' name amen.

You are correct that the 2nd death Jesus died will only benefit those who accept what He did for us, and this does not do away with the second death those who did not accept His sacrifice will suffer.

He showed me you are a true brother in the church Daryl. You will be blessed for this. I do not mean to say God showed me you agree with everything He showed me yet, but that you have the correct response when it comes to discernment and testing the Spirit.

I am sorry for the confrontation here, it was necessary to strengthen the issue in the minds of those riding the fence on the subject and put it into long term memory for most.

I truly fear for those who with so much evidence still found it their duty to try to discredit the vision by challenging and contradicting the evidence already given by the Holy Spirit. This is the wrong response, but by the conflict it will make a more lasting response on the minds of the bystanders.

Nothing happens against righteousness except for righteousness.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: jamesonofthunder] #141955
05/04/12 04:38 PM
05/04/12 04:38 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
Banned
SDA
Active Member 2015

3500+ Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
Pastor Rodriguez has received the same Holy Spirit message that I received, I would very much like to meet with and talk with him. Peace in Jesus' name amen.


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: jamesonofthunder] #141956
05/04/12 04:44 PM
05/04/12 04:44 PM
jamesonofthunder  Offline OP
Banned
SDA
Active Member 2015

3500+ Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,613
USA
I can share this now.

Those who in these last days find the truth in this matter are those who will receive the extra measure of oil to make it to the wedding feast. If there are any here that want this blessing please test this vision in prayerful contemplation, and if in your heart you are right with God you will be so blessed. I know our God has shown this for everyone to be blessed but only a remnant will accept and embrace this place of meeting with Christ.

Here again is the full vision.

http://redheifersbloodysweat.blogspot.com/2011/12/red-heifer.html


Search me oh God and know my heart, test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me and lead me to the way everlasting. Amen
Re: Jesus died our Second death. [Re: jamesonofthunder] #141958
05/04/12 05:47 PM
05/04/12 05:47 PM
Mountain Man  Offline
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Active Member 2019

20000+ Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 22,256
Southwest USA
Originally Posted By: Pastor Rodriquez
"Jesus experienced the second death because it was the right penalty for the sins of the world."

"It's impossible for us to understand fully what the second death entails, because the only one who went through it and came back was Jesus."

"This is unquestionably the second death."

Originally Posted By: jamesonofthunder
"SEPARATION FROM THE FATHER IS THE PUNISHMENT FOR SIN. Not the physical death."

"So it was in Gethsemane that Jesus died in our stead suffering the THE DEATH pronounced upon transgressors?"

I agree. Furthermore, Jesus continued "suffering" the ravages of the second death on the cross. However, we must reconcile this insight with the following insights:

Quote:
Amid the awful darkness, apparently forsaken of God, Christ had drained the last dregs in the cup of human woe. In those dreadful hours He had relied upon the evidence of His Father's acceptance heretofore given Him. He was acquainted with the character of His Father; He understood His justice, His mercy, and His great love. By faith He rested in Him whom it had ever been His joy to obey. And as in submission He committed Himself to God, the sense of the loss of His Father's favor was withdrawn. By faith, Christ was victor. {DA 756.3}

Christ did not yield up His life till He had accomplished the work which He came to do, and with His parting breath He exclaimed, "It is finished." John 19:30. The battle had been won. His right hand and His holy arm had gotten Him the victory. As a Conqueror He planted His banner on the eternal heights. Was there not joy among the angels? All heaven triumphed in the Saviour's victory. Satan was defeated, and knew that his kingdom was lost. {DA 758.1}

Sister White makes it clear Jesus finished what He came to do BEFORE He voluntarily laid down His life, BEFORE He died. The sense of the Father's favor was restored BEFORE He died. Neither of these things are part of the second death.

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