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From Sinners to Saints, Part 1 - The Obvious Mystery (sermon by Arnold Sy Go) #154627
08/04/13 03:11 AM
08/04/13 03:11 AM
asygo  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
http://assortedramblings.weebly.com/part-1---the-obvious-mystery.html

This was from last year. I'll post the rest of the series as time permits.

I thought it might be a catalyst to a better understanding of the debate over the nature of salvation. As always, comments are appreciated.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: From Sinners to Saints, Part 1 - The Obvious Mystery (sermon by Arnold Sy Go) [Re: asygo] #154628
08/04/13 03:21 AM
08/04/13 03:21 AM
asygo  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Theme:
There is a characteristic of God that is so obvious, yet so mysterious to us. But it is the foundation of everything about God and His plan for us.

Scripture:
1 John 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him.

The Obvious Mystery
by Arnold Sy Go

God is love. We’ve heard it many times. It seems obvious, but it is still a great mystery to us. Paul tells us that Christ’s love passes knowledge: “that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height—to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.” (Ephesians 3:17-19) Yes, we can know many things about the love of God, but there is still a long way to go.

This poses a problem because the Gospel – God’s good news – is firmly rooted in His love. Love is the foundation of the Gospel. And we are commissioned to go out and preach the Gospel. Therefore, it behooves us to know as much as we can about God’s love.

We’ve heard about “love at first sight.” But does that really happen? No. We can have “infatuation” at first sight, but love develops as we interact with each other.

But God is different. He loved us BEFORE He saw us. Jeremiah 1:5 says that He knows us even before we are born. And even going back to our beginning, when God created this world, we see that He lovingly created the perfect home for our perfect parents.

But it’s easy to love perfect people. So it is more impressive when we see love manifested toward imperfect people. We see this when parents love their imperfect children. We see this when men and women love their imperfect spouses.

God is no less loving than we are. We read in Genesis 3:6-7 that Adam and Eve sinned. Our perfect parents made themselves imperfect by transgression, and they hid from God. Sin had so damaged them, in that short span of time, that they saw God as a severe judge, ready to punish every error and sin. Instead, God showed them a tiny sliver of His infinite love by replacing their fig leaf garments with tunics of skin. Yes, God loves the imperfect.

But what about the rebellious? Can rebels be loved? When our children rebel, do we love them? Yes, we do. We love them no matter what.

God is no less loving than we are. Mark 14:1 tells us that “the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take Him by trickery and put Him to death.” Why did they want to kill him? We find the reason in John 11 – Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead. Here were the priests and scribes, tasked with teaching the people about God’s plan to save them from death. And when He came and did just that, what did they do? They plotted to kill Him! Rebels if there ever was one! But those are exactly the ones that Jesus came to save. He came to save sinners, to call sinners to repentance. He died to save the ungodly, His enemies. See Luke 5:32, Rom 5:6-10, 1Tim 1:15.

Jesus always manifested God’s love, especially to those who rejected Him. In Luke 9:51-56, when His disciples wanted to call down fire on those who rejected Him, Jesus told them that they were not working in His Spirit. In Matt 5:43-44, Jesus said that we should love our enemies. He practiced what He preached.

So, is God always loving? “For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 8:38-39) Nothing at all can separate us from God’s love – not our sins, not our rebellion, not even our choice. He loves us no matter what.

Why is this? Because God does not simply love. To Him, love is not merely something that He does; love is what He is. John tells us that God IS love. Love does not merely describe God’s actions, it defines God’s nature. It is much deeper than we realize.

So how about those who suffer the Second Death? Does God love even those who are ultimately lost? Yes, He does. God’s love is manifested even in eternal death. We will study that in more detail in the next installment of this series.

What does that mean for us? It means that of all the things we can count on, God’s love for us is the most unchangeable of them all. Furthermore – and this is where it is going to get really difficult – Jesus told us in John 15:12 that we are to love as He loved us. That’s deep. That is so much against our nature that it is humanly impossible.

But the good news is that we are not left to human resources. If God told us to do it, we can be sure that He also gives us the divine grace to accomplish it. And when we allow Him to do that – to fill us with His love so that we can love each other as He loves us – we will be effective tools in His hands to spread the Good News that God is love.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: From Sinners to Saints, Part 1 - The Obvious Mystery (sermon by Arnold Sy Go) [Re: asygo] #154631
08/04/13 05:28 AM
08/04/13 05:28 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Active Member 2019

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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: asygo
Nothing at all can separate us from God’s love – not our sins, not our rebellion, not even our choice. He loves us no matter what.


Rev. 18:8, "Therefore her plagues will come in one day — death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her."

Re: From Sinners to Saints, Part 1 - The Obvious Mystery (sermon by Arnold Sy Go) [Re: James Peterson] #154646
08/05/13 02:58 AM
08/05/13 02:58 AM
asygo  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
That is also a manifestation of God's love.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: From Sinners to Saints, Part 1 - The Obvious Mystery (sermon by Arnold Sy Go) [Re: asygo] #154652
08/05/13 04:09 AM
08/05/13 04:09 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: asygo
That is also a manifestation of God's love.


???

...
...

Re: From Sinners to Saints, Part 1 - The Obvious Mystery (sermon by Arnold Sy Go) [Re: James Peterson] #154663
08/05/13 04:22 PM
08/05/13 04:22 PM
asygo  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
Wait for part 2. I covered it there in more detail.

But for now, let's recognize that God IS love. He is the very definition of love. And if He does something that our human sensibilities see as incongruent with love, I say that we don't know love.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: From Sinners to Saints, Part 1 - The Obvious Mystery (sermon by Arnold Sy Go) [Re: asygo] #154666
08/05/13 07:41 PM
08/05/13 07:41 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: asygo
Wait for part 2. I covered it there in more detail.

But for now, let's recognize that God IS love. He is the very definition of love. And if He does something that our human sensibilities see as incongruent with love, I say that we don't know love.


I say you lack commonsense.

God is not a one-dimensional character (floating around in a fluffy world of eternal smiles, and a tear rolling down his cheeks for every occasion) but expresses the same range of emotions as we do, except HIS is tempered by infinite wisdom, deep understanding and unshakeable patience.

Do not forget that it is ALSO written, "For our God is a consuming fire." (Heb. 12:29)

Re: From Sinners to Saints, Part 1 - The Obvious Mystery (sermon by Arnold Sy Go) [Re: James Peterson] #154677
08/06/13 02:09 AM
08/06/13 02:09 AM
asygo  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
And you can't imagine how God can be loving and be a consuming fire at the same time?

You have a stunted concept of love, if your idea of it is "floating around in a fluffy world of eternal smiles, and a tear rolling down his cheeks for every occasion." The love that will give eternal life to the repentant is the same love that will give eternal death to the impenitent.

Last edited by asygo; 08/06/13 02:12 AM.

By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
Re: From Sinners to Saints, Part 1 - The Obvious Mystery (sermon by Arnold Sy Go) [Re: asygo] #154681
08/06/13 03:18 AM
08/06/13 03:18 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: asygo
And you can't imagine how God can be loving and be a consuming fire at the same time?

You have a stunted concept of love, if your idea of it is "floating around in a fluffy world of eternal smiles, and a tear rolling down his cheeks for every occasion." The love that will give eternal life to the repentant is the same love that will give eternal death to the impenitent.


THE WRATH OF GOD:

"And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, NEITHER HAVE YE PITY: slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women ..." (Ezek. 9)

THE LOVE OF GOD:

"Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." (Luke 23)

--- There is a stark and very real difference. As it is written, that for the wicked, "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of God." But for the righteous, "The sun shall arise with healing in his wings!"

...
..

Re: From Sinners to Saints, Part 1 - The Obvious Mystery (sermon by Arnold Sy Go) [Re: James Peterson] #154698
08/06/13 05:08 PM
08/06/13 05:08 PM
asygo  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,583
California, USA
The sun that hardens the brick also melts the butter. The glory that revives the believer also destroys the unbeliever. Don't blame God for our faults.

To you, it looks like God treats people differently. But the reality is that people react to God differently. God loves all, but reactions to that love differ.


By God's grace,
Arnold

There is no excuse for any one in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. RH 12/20/1892
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