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Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: James Peterson] #155899
09/08/13 12:09 AM
09/08/13 12:09 AM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: James
The Law of Jubilee can be found in Lev. 25. It is based on this principle: that God claims both the land and people as HIS. We are only custodians for a time. He says, "The land shall not be sold permanently, for the land is Mine." (Lev. 25:23) and again, "the children of Israel are servants to Me; they are My servants whom I brought out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God." (Lev. 25:55)
The underline in not true. No where it says we are to be custodians for a time but the opposite that what we have lost(via sin-debts) will return to us regardless if our debt has been paid in full or not at the Great Jubilee. You are adding stuff that is not there and twisting things to serve the vomit(teachings of men according to Isaiah) that you cherish.

Originally Posted By: James
The Law of Jubilee served as a deterrent against exploitation, against slavery, against bondage; it was a means of escape from servitude and pain. It foreshadowed the freedom we will enjoy in Christ and the opportunity granted to the world to escape its bondage to the Devil. We have ONE Master, God; and He is not a tyrant, but someone who forgives, heals and gives life.
You show you have not carefully read the law of Jubilee or your idols are so heavy they are twisting things so badly for you[Ez 14]. After this post I will replay to Asygo and in that reply I have listed the basic principles of the law of Jubilee by quoting texts and references. You shoud re-read it but next time, leave your idols at the door if you want to really know what the Lord actually says in His Law.

Originally Posted By: James
The Day of Jubilee was the Day of Atonement, as it is written, "Then you shall cause the trumpet of the Jubilee to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month; on the Day of Atonement you shall make the trumpet to sound throughout all your land. And you shall consecrate the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a Jubilee for you." (Lev. 25:9-10) On that Day, the sin of the congregation was taken away, the scapegoat was taken away, bondage and servitude were taken away, and the people who remained were blessed and set free. As it is written, "If the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed." (John 8:36)
Yes but the trumpet only sounds at the end of the 49th millenium year period when the two works of atonement is finish. Only then all the captives will be set free. The first work of Christ was done when He came from the tribe of Judah and took the scepter.

Jesus will come to execute His second work at His second coming when He comes as JosephAnd he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood” Rev 19:13 of goats (Gn 37:31 And they took Joseph's coat, and killed a kid of the goats, and dipped the coat in the blood;). This second work begins with "out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and rule them with a rod of iron." Rev 19:15 during the 7th Millenium. After the millennium the Bible talks further of His 2nd work with the judgment at the Great White Throne where every sin will be judge and everyone raised at the 2nd resurrection will pay their debts as it is written in the Jubilee law. And yes at the end of Jesus 2nd work which is when the great Jubilee day, everyone’s debt whether paid in full or not, will be forgiven from their debt and be restore back to their inheritance(to their immortal body).

Originally Posted By: James
But who does the Son set free on the Day of Jubilee? Those who afflict their souls (i.e. sincerely repent of their sins), as it is written, "[the Day] shall be a holy convocation for you; you shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire to the Lord ... any person who is not afflicted in soul on that same day shall be cut off from his people; and any person who does any work on that same day, that person I will destroy from among his people." (Lev. 23:26:32)
Yes, but also the Lord did swear that “every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear[swear 7 times]” Paul renders it that they ”confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father”. What part of EVERY didn’t you understand? Every means EVERY man…will bow(submit = repent), every man will confess (or swear 7 times) that Jesus Christ is Lord” and note this confessing “to the glory of God the Father.” So the Bible says that Jesus will bring everyone to Repentance via His great 2nd work through His Judgment that He will bring the "restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."Acts 3:21 ... "for when thy judgments [are] in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness." Is 26:9
.

Originally Posted By: James
It is evident therefore, that the Day of Jubilee had one of two results. Those who sincerely repented, were forgiven, cleansed, set free and inherited the earth under their feet, were returned to their lost possessions. Those who callously disregarded the day were cut off, destroyed, lost, driven away and were never to be see or heard of again. That was the Law of Jubilee.
Your underline conclusion is very false and you do not speak according to what the Law of Jubilee says …it says that every one will return to their possession regardless whether their debt has been paid in full or not.


Blessings
Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: asygo] #155902
09/08/13 12:50 AM
09/08/13 12:50 AM
E
Elle  Offline
Active Member 2019
Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: Elle
The Law of Jubilee is clear that at the end of the 49th year, all debt are erased(cancelled) which means total forgiveness and everyone is restore back to their inheritance.

"AV Lv 25:10 And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout [all] the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family....AV Lv 25:28 But if he be not able to restore [it] to him, then that which is sold shall remain in the hand of him that hath bought it until the year of jubile: and in the jubile it shall go out, and he shall return unto his possession."

What about the law for the slave who gets his ear pierced? Does he also go free at the Jubilee?
To answer your question, let’s first lay out some basic principles of the Law of Jubilee and the Law of Redemption which reveals the Lord’s mind and plan.

Basic Principles of the Law of Jubilee

A. All sin is the breaking of the law(1Jn 3:4 “…sin is lawlessness(anomia))

B. All sin is rendered as a debt to be paid. (Mat 6:12 “forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors”; Mat 18:25” But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold… and all that he had, and payment to be made”. )

C. if you cannot pay your debt, you are to be sold as a slave(servant or worker)(see Mat 18:25 quoted above; Ex 22:3” [for] he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.” Lev 25:50 And he shall reckon with him that bought him from the year that he was sold to him unto the year of jubile: and the price of his sale shall be according unto the number of years, according to the time of an hired servant shall it be with him.)

D. until the sum of your debt is paid off or until the time of Jubilee comes, which ever comes first.(see Lev 25:14-15;25-27;39-41; 49-54)

E. A Redeemer who is next of kin, have the right to come and redeem (pay) your debt at any time.(Lev 25:25 “If thy brother be waxen poor, and hath sold away [some] of his possession, and if any of his kin come to redeem it, then shall he redeem that which his brother sold…)

F. The debt is not cancelled, it is simply transferred to the Redeemer and you now owe to your close relative; thus need to work off your debt for him instead of the hard-slave-Master. (Lev 25:39 “And if thy brother [that dwelleth] by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee; thou shalt not compel him to serve as a bondservant: 40. [But] as an hired servant, [and] as a sojourner, he shall be with thee, [and] shall serve thee unto the year of jubile:” see also v. 53

G. The Redeemer have the right to demand that you work the full payment of the debt or until the Jubilee, part of the debt, or cancel the whole debt all together (Mat 18:27-35 see quote below)

H. Even if the Redeemer has cancel your debt, He can change his mind and demand full payment of the debt afterwards (Mat 18:27-35 “Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. 28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took [him] by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. 29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. ..:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 33. Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.)

I. Your close relative-Redeemer will treat you better than the distant related task-master. (Lev 25: 53 [And] as a yearly hired servant shall he be with him: [and the other] shall not rule with rigour over him in thy sight. Mat 11:30 For my yoke [is] easy, and my burden is light)

J. Here the way Lev 25:49 and elsewhere is worded, it appears that all will end up, in some point of time, to have a redeemer. Before I was under the impression that some might not have a redeemer after the millennium. So more studying to be done for me to understand this part of the Jubile. ( Lev 25:49. Either his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or [any] that is nigh of kin unto him of his family may redeem him; or if he be able, he may redeem himself.)

Purpose of the Law & Judgment
It is the fiery law that brings judgment, define what is sin, and convicts us of sin, and teaches us the law. Rom 7:7 “ I had not known sin, but by the law:” So the purpose of the Law and Judgment is to teach us what is sin and to bring us to righteousness.

The Believers and Unbelievers Group
The Law of Jubilee above define these 2 groups :
1. Children of Israel(=believers or Church people, wheat company) redeemed by a close of kin
2. Strangers and bondmen or bondmaids of the heathen (=unbelievers, the grape company)

After the millennium, these 2 groups will undergo specifics judgment that the law describes and elsewhere in the Bible like Luke 12:42-49 saying that the judgment of the believers(group #1) that some will have “their portion with the unbelievers”(group #2). Notice that the text says that there will be a portion reserve for both group #1 and #2. We won’t go further than this and now get to your question.

The Eared Pierced Group

The ones that have their ears pierced were originally from group #1(redeemed believers) and they refused to be let go free during the first yearly Millennium Sabbath and now constitute a new group called the overcomers.

3. Ears Pierced believers (= Overcomers, 144k, the firstfruits, the barley company)

What set the overcomers apart from #1 group is them refusing to be set free at the first Yearly Sabbath millennium; in this they are pledging to stay and work for their Master-Redeemer forever. This ceremony of having their ears pierce to the door(laws of Master) represents the Sonship adoption for they now agree with their Master house(kingdom)'s laws and want to serve him eternally. Basically to agree with the laws means that they are written on their heart. The ears pierced symbolize their ability to hear & obey their Master’s voice perfectly(“my sheep hear my voice and follow me”).

Difference between Obeying the laws and Agreeing with it
A person may obey and submit to the will of his master but may not agree with His will. Being in agreement with their Master laws set’s them apart from the other church members who are still under the obedience-bond-type of relationship. Paul illustrated this in Gal 4:22-31 with the two type of marriage relationships. Hagar who was the bond-wife represents the old covenant by which obedience is required. Sarah who was the free-woman represents the new covenant and the relationship with her husband is not based on the idea of obedience but the idea of agreement. This is what Hosea 2:16 refers about when it say ”you will call me Ishi [my Husband], and will no more call me Ba-al”[My Lord or Master].

A marriage relationship starts with the two not always being in agreement. When there’s disagreement, the wife needs to submit to the husband. However, when the married couple becomes in agreement in all things, there is no more need to have a master-servant relationship for it is irrelevant. Authority is exercised only when there is disagreement where the one in authority needs to order the other to do his will.

Therefore, the overcomers who now are adopted sons, will work with their husband-Jesus side eternally and share the throne to rule over the nations with an rod of iron. Since they will administer the fiery laws with Jesus at the Great white throne this makes the Jubilee irrelevant to them ...and remember from the other post .... the overcomers have already died that 2nd death.


Blessings
Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: Elle] #155904
09/08/13 03:39 AM
09/08/13 03:39 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Elle
Originally Posted By: Rosangela
I have not been following this thread, but if everybody will be saved in the end, this means one can be saved even if he/she lives in sin; why would someone accept Christ and quit sin?

Is 26:9 says "for when thy judgment are in the earth, all the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness."

This day will come at the Great White throne Judgement when the works of all those from the 2nd ressurection will be individually all judges and the Lord will pass a sentence on them. The sentence will be enforced. There will be no question if whether the judgment of the Lord will be correct...for He knows the truth and has all the evidence and knows what sins these individual commited and their measure of guilt in each action. Each sins will be properly measured with an equivalence of debt with a just sentence (an eye for an eye) according to His fiery Law for each sin ever committed. And then, like our own tribunal court, the sentence will be enforced on these people and they will have to work to pay up all their debts-sins ever committed. This is "the restitution of all things talked about by the prophets since the world began" Act 3:21

By working up to pay their debts as servants while being supervised and employed by their redeemer, they will learn not to steal, not to commit adultery, and etc... restitution will be made towards all victims and the offender will eventually be restore.

That's not true. Isaiah prophecies that the wicked will die, perish, be no more. He says:

"They are dead, they will not live;
They are deceased, they will not rise.
Therefore You have punished and destroyed them,
And made all their memory to perish. (Isaiah 26:14)

And that from the very chapter you are using to prove that the wicked will enjoy eternal life. Something is terribly wrong with your reasoning.

....
...

Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: Elle] #155905
09/08/13 04:13 AM
09/08/13 04:13 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Elle
Originally Posted By: asygo
Originally Posted By: Elle
The Law of Jubilee is clear that at the end of the 49th year, all debt are erased(cancelled) which means total forgiveness and everyone is restore back to their inheritance.

"AV Lv 25:10 And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout [all] the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family....AV Lv 25:28 But if he be not able to restore [it] to him, then that which is sold shall remain in the hand of him that hath bought it until the year of jubile: and in the jubile it shall go out, and he shall return unto his possession."

What about the law for the slave who gets his ear pierced? Does he also go free at the Jubilee?
To answer your question, let’s first lay out some basic principles of the Law of Jubilee and the Law of Redemption which reveals the Lord’s mind and plan.

Basic Principles of the Law of Jubilee

A. All sin is the breaking of the law(1Jn 3:4 “…sin is lawlessness(anomia))

B. All sin is rendered as a debt to be paid. (Mat 6:12 “forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors”; Mat 18:25” But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold… and all that he had, and payment to be made”. )

C. if you cannot pay your debt, you are to be sold as a slave(servant or worker)(see Mat 18:25 quoted above; Ex 22:3” [for] he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.” Lev 25:50 And he shall reckon with him that bought him from the year that he was sold to him unto the year of jubile: and the price of his sale shall be according unto the number of years, according to the time of an hired servant shall it be with him.)

D. until the sum of your debt is paid off or until the time of Jubilee comes, which ever comes first.(see Lev 25:14-15;25-27;39-41; 49-54)

E. A Redeemer who is next of kin, have the right to come and redeem (pay) your debt at any time.(Lev 25:25 “If thy brother be waxen poor, and hath sold away [some] of his possession, and if any of his kin come to redeem it, then shall he redeem that which his brother sold…)

F. The debt is not cancelled, it is simply transferred to the Redeemer and you now owe to your close relative; thus need to work off your debt for him instead of the hard-slave-Master. (Lev 25:39 “And if thy brother [that dwelleth] by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee; thou shalt not compel him to serve as a bondservant: 40. [But] as an hired servant, [and] as a sojourner, he shall be with thee, [and] shall serve thee unto the year of jubile:” see also v. 53

G. The Redeemer have the right to demand that you work the full payment of the debt or until the Jubilee, part of the debt, or cancel the whole debt all together (Mat 18:27-35 see quote below)

H. Even if the Redeemer has cancel your debt, He can change his mind and demand full payment of the debt afterwards (Mat 18:27-35 “Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. 28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took [him] by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. 29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. 30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. ..:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: 33. Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? 34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.)

I. Your close relative-Redeemer will treat you better than the distant related task-master. (Lev 25: 53 [And] as a yearly hired servant shall he be with him: [and the other] shall not rule with rigour over him in thy sight. Mat 11:30 For my yoke [is] easy, and my burden is light)

J. Here the way Lev 25:49 and elsewhere is worded, it appears that all will end up, in some point of time, to have a redeemer. Before I was under the impression that some might not have a redeemer after the millennium. So more studying to be done for me to understand this part of the Jubile. ( Lev 25:49. Either his uncle, or his uncle's son, may redeem him, or [any] that is nigh of kin unto him of his family may redeem him; or if he be able, he may redeem himself.)

Purpose of the Law & Judgment
It is the fiery law that brings judgment, define what is sin, and convicts us of sin, and teaches us the law. Rom 7:7 “ I had not known sin, but by the law:” So the purpose of the Law and Judgment is to teach us what is sin and to bring us to righteousness.

The Believers and Unbelievers Group
The Law of Jubilee above define these 2 groups :
1. Children of Israel(=believers or Church people, wheat company) redeemed by a close of kin
2. Strangers and bondmen or bondmaids of the heathen (=unbelievers, the grape company)

After the millennium, these 2 groups will undergo specifics judgment that the law describes and elsewhere in the Bible like Luke 12:42-49 saying that the judgment of the believers(group #1) that some will have “their portion with the unbelievers”(group #2). Notice that the text says that there will be a portion reserve for both group #1 and #2. We won’t go further than this and now get to your question.

The Eared Pierced Group

The ones that have their ears pierced were originally from group #1(redeemed believers) and they refused to be let go free during the first yearly Millennium Sabbath and now constitute a new group called the overcomers.

3. Ears Pierced believers (= Overcomers, 144k, the firstfruits, the barley company)

What set the overcomers apart from #1 group is them refusing to be set free at the first Yearly Sabbath millennium; in this they are pledging to stay and work for their Master-Redeemer forever. This ceremony of having their ears pierce to the door(laws of Master) represents the Sonship adoption for they now agree with their Master house(kingdom)'s laws and want to serve him eternally. Basically to agree with the laws means that they are written on their heart. The ears pierced symbolize their ability to hear & obey their Master’s voice perfectly(“my sheep hear my voice and follow me”).

Difference between Obeying the laws and Agreeing with it
A person may obey and submit to the will of his master but may not agree with His will. Being in agreement with their Master laws set’s them apart from the other church members who are still under the obedience-bond-type of relationship. Paul illustrated this in Gal 4:22-31 with the two type of marriage relationships. Hagar who was the bond-wife represents the old covenant by which obedience is required. Sarah who was the free-woman represents the new covenant and the relationship with her husband is not based on the idea of obedience but the idea of agreement. This is what Hosea 2:16 refers about when it say ”you will call me Ishi [my Husband], and will no more call me Ba-al”[My Lord or Master].

A marriage relationship starts with the two not always being in agreement. When there’s disagreement, the wife needs to submit to the husband. However, when the married couple becomes in agreement in all things, there is no more need to have a master-servant relationship for it is irrelevant. Authority is exercised only when there is disagreement where the one in authority needs to order the other to do his will.

Therefore, the overcomers who now are adopted sons, will work with their husband-Jesus side eternally and share the throne to rule over the nations with an rod of iron. Since they will administer the fiery laws with Jesus at the Great white throne this makes the Jubilee irrelevant to them ...and remember from the other post .... the overcomers have already died that 2nd death.

Is sin a debt that has to be repaid?

.....
...

Last edited by James Peterson; 09/08/13 04:14 AM.
Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: Elle] #155906
09/08/13 04:18 AM
09/08/13 04:18 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Elle
Originally Posted By: James
The Law of Jubilee can be found in Lev. 25. It is based on this principle: that God claims both the land and people as HIS. We are only custodians for a time. He says, "The land shall not be sold permanently, for the land is Mine." (Lev. 25:23) and again, "the children of Israel are servants to Me; they are My servants whom I brought out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God." (Lev. 25:55)
The underline in not true. No where it says we are to be custodians for a time but the opposite that what we have lost(via sin-debts) will return to us regardless if our debt has been paid in full or not at the Great Jubilee. You are adding stuff that is not there and twisting things to serve the vomit(teachings of men according to Isaiah) that you cherish.

Originally Posted By: James
The Law of Jubilee served as a deterrent against exploitation, against slavery, against bondage; it was a means of escape from servitude and pain. It foreshadowed the freedom we will enjoy in Christ and the opportunity granted to the world to escape its bondage to the Devil. We have ONE Master, God; and He is not a tyrant, but someone who forgives, heals and gives life.
You show you have not carefully read the law of Jubilee or your idols are so heavy they are twisting things so badly for you[Ez 14]. After this post I will replay to Asygo and in that reply I have listed the basic principles of the law of Jubilee by quoting texts and references. You shoud re-read it but next time, leave your idols at the door if you want to really know what the Lord actually says in His Law.

Originally Posted By: James
The Day of Jubilee was the Day of Atonement, as it is written, "Then you shall cause the trumpet of the Jubilee to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month; on the Day of Atonement you shall make the trumpet to sound throughout all your land. And you shall consecrate the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land to all its inhabitants. It shall be a Jubilee for you." (Lev. 25:9-10) On that Day, the sin of the congregation was taken away, the scapegoat was taken away, bondage and servitude were taken away, and the people who remained were blessed and set free. As it is written, "If the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed." (John 8:36)
Yes but the trumpet only sounds at the end of the 49th millenium year period when the two works of atonement is finish. Only then all the captives will be set free. The first work of Christ was done when He came from the tribe of Judah and took the scepter.

Jesus will come to execute His second work at His second coming when He comes as JosephAnd he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood” Rev 19:13 of goats (Gn 37:31 And they took Joseph's coat, and killed a kid of the goats, and dipped the coat in the blood;). This second work begins with "out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and rule them with a rod of iron." Rev 19:15 during the 7th Millenium. After the millennium the Bible talks further of His 2nd work with the judgment at the Great White Throne where every sin will be judge and everyone raised at the 2nd resurrection will pay their debts as it is written in the Jubilee law. And yes at the end of Jesus 2nd work which is when the great Jubilee day, everyone’s debt whether paid in full or not, will be forgiven from their debt and be restore back to their inheritance(to their immortal body).

Originally Posted By: James
But who does the Son set free on the Day of Jubilee? Those who afflict their souls (i.e. sincerely repent of their sins), as it is written, "[the Day] shall be a holy convocation for you; you shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire to the Lord ... any person who is not afflicted in soul on that same day shall be cut off from his people; and any person who does any work on that same day, that person I will destroy from among his people." (Lev. 23:26:32)
Yes, but also the Lord did swear that “every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear[swear 7 times]” Paul renders it that they ”confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father”. What part of EVERY didn’t you understand? Every means EVERY man…will bow(submit = repent), every man will confess (or swear 7 times) that Jesus Christ is Lord” and note this confessing “to the glory of God the Father.” So the Bible says that Jesus will bring everyone to Repentance via His great 2nd work through His Judgment that He will bring the "restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."Acts 3:21 ... "for when thy judgments [are] in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness." Is 26:9
.

Originally Posted By: James
It is evident therefore, that the Day of Jubilee had one of two results. Those who sincerely repented, were forgiven, cleansed, set free and inherited the earth under their feet, were returned to their lost possessions. Those who callously disregarded the day were cut off, destroyed, lost, driven away and were never to be see or heard of again. That was the Law of Jubilee.
Your underline conclusion is very false and you do not speak according to what the Law of Jubilee says …it says that every one will return to their possession regardless whether their debt has been paid in full or not.


The Day of Jubilee is the Day of Atonement; and on the Day of Atonement, the wicked are cut off and destroyed. They do not live forever.
....
...

Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: James Peterson] #155911
09/08/13 11:01 AM
09/08/13 11:01 AM
E
Elle  Offline
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Died February 12, 2019

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Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Is sin a debt that has to be repaid?

Excellent question James. What scriptures say is where you want to get your answer.

Quote:
B. All sin is rendered as a debt to be paid. (Mat 6:12 “forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors”; Mat 18:25” But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold… and all that he had, and payment to be made”. )

C. if you cannot pay your debt, you are to be sold as a slave(servant or worker)(see Mat 18:25 quoted above; Ex 22:3” [for] he should make full restitution; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.” Lev 25:50 And he shall reckon with him that bought him from the year that he was sold to him unto the year of jubile: and the price of his sale shall be according unto the number of years, according to the time of an hired servant shall it be with him.)

D. until the sum of your debt is paid off or until the time of Jubilee comes, which ever comes first.(see Lev 25:14-15;25-27;39-41; 49-54)

The Lord always SOLD the people for their sins as Judgment

In the past, the Lord repeatively sold a nation or individuals to someone else as a judgment for their sins. There so many scriptures denoting this that time is not on my side to list them. For today I will only focuss on what was done in the book of Judges as I have already studied this in the past and have the scriptures at hand. Selling us for our sins has always been His ways from the beginiing even with Adam.

Besides what was quoted above, another Law where this principle is found is in Lev 26 and Deut 28 which basically says the follwoing "if you do not obey my laws...I will sell you to the foreigners."

When Israel entered the land of Canaan and started to worship Baal of Peor(The Lord of the gaps) and the Queen of Heaven, they angered the Lord. So He SOLD them for their sins to the foreigners and let the foreigners RULE over them. This is how the Lord used His judgment for their sins to teach Israel His laws. We see this judgment in the book of Judges 6 times.

#1. 8 years to Mesopotamia, Jud 3;
Jdg 2:14 And the anger of the LORD was hot against Israel... and he sold them into the hands of their enemies round about, so that they could not any longer stand before their enemies.

Jdg 3:8 . Therefore the anger of the LORD was hot against Israel, and he sold them into the hand of Chushanrishathaim king of Mesopotamia: and the children of Israel served Chushanrishathaim eight years.

#2. 18 years to Moabites Jud 3:14;

#3. 20 years to Cannanites Jud 4:3;
Jdg 4:2 And the LORD sold them into the hand of Jabin king of Canaan, that reigned in Hazor; the captain of whose host [was] Sisera, which dwelt in Harosheth of the Gentiles.

#4. 7 years to Midians Jud 6;

#5. 18 years to Ammonites Jud 10;
Jdg 10:7 And the anger of the LORD was hot against Israel, and he sold them into the hands of the Philistines, and into the hands of the children of Ammon.

#6. 40 years to the Philistines Jud 16

So if this is the WAYS of the Lord to Judge His people why do you think the Lord will suddenly change His ways at the Great White throne?


Blessings
Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: Johann] #155912
09/08/13 11:20 AM
09/08/13 11:20 AM
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Elle  Offline
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Died February 12, 2019

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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Quote:
Elle : The Law that Jesus is referring to is the Law of Moses by which Jesus gave to Moses himself. Jesus is attesting in Mat 5:18 that the Law is prophetic and not even a tittle or a jot (which are the smallest pen strokes of the Hebrew character of a word that consititue vowels) will pass without being all fulfill.

Johann : Elle, there were no vowel points in Biblical Hebrew when Jesus was here on earth. They were added several hundred years later.


Tx for letting me know about this. I will check if what you say is true. I'm not saying I disbelieve you, but it is a duty to verify every thing. So if this is the case then the tittle and the jot must be related to the yod character in the Hebrew alphabet which is the smallest letter. Actually that would make more sense than the vowels little markings on the consonents.

Originally Posted By: Johann
The Law - Ten Commandments - are elsewhere in the Bible referred to as a covenant, and described as such. This is an eternal covenant. I believe that the terms of this covenant is best described by Jesus Himself, as well as by Paul and John.
Johann you have made the same remark in the discussion on Is 8:20. I have responded to you there. You never responded back to my post. I would appreciate that you conduct an intelligent constructive discussion with scripture in the appropriate discussion. Here is not the place to discuss about this.


Blessings
Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: Elle] #155913
09/08/13 11:48 AM
09/08/13 11:48 AM
Johann  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,014
Iceland
Originally Posted By: Elle
You never responded back to my post.

I believe we have the freedom on this forum to respond or not respond to any post.

If I do not respond it could be because I disagree but leave it to others to reply, which they often do, and are able to respond better than I would do it.


"Here is a last piece of advice. If you believe in goodness and if you value the approval of God, fix your minds on the things which are holy and right and pure and beautiful and good. Model your conduct on what you have learned from me, on what I have told you and shown you, and you will find the God of peace will be with you."
Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: Johann] #155915
09/08/13 12:28 PM
09/08/13 12:28 PM
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Elle  Offline
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Died February 12, 2019

2500+ Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: Johann
Originally Posted By: Elle
You never responded back to my post.

I believe we have the freedom on this forum to respond or not respond to any post.

If I do not respond it could be because I disagree but leave it to others to reply, which they often do, and are able to respond better than I would do it.
Then if you cannot prove what you think the Bible says in an intelligent study in the discussion where it is addressed where proof and scriptures are brought forth, then don't keep bringing it up in other discussions when it is not the place and all you're doing is diverting the topic at hand. Daryl shouldn't of done that himself and I should of brought him back to the proper discussions where it was discussed.


Blessings
Re: Does All Being Saved in the End and Nobody Being Lost Have Biblical Support? [Re: Elle] #155916
09/08/13 01:01 PM
09/08/13 01:01 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: Elle
You never responded back to my post. I would appreciate that you conduct an intelligent constructive discussion with scripture in the appropriate discussion.


Elle, you never responded to mine either, and I was using pure scripture. This seemed the appropriate discussion for the texts I posted as well.

In case it has been buried among other posts and hasn't been noticed, I'll repost it.

Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Originally Posted By: Elle
Daryl eternal death is not even a concept that exist in the Bible even less it being related to the 2nd death.


Which Bible are you reading?

My Bible speaks of the eternal damnation.

Originally Posted By: The Bible
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: (Mark 3:29)


We also find references to perishing forever, having one's name blotted out forever, etc.

Originally Posted By: The Bible
They are destroyed from morning to evening: they perish for ever without any regarding it. (Job 4:20)

Thou hast rebuked the heathen, thou hast destroyed the wicked, thou hast put out their name for ever and ever. (Psalm 9:5)

God shall likewise destroy thee for ever, he shall take thee away, and pluck thee out of thy dwelling place, and root thee out of the land of the living. Selah. (Psalm 52:5)

When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever: But thou, LORD, [art most] high for evermore. (Psalm 92:7-8)

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.(2 Thessalonians 1:8-10)


To me, those verses are indicative of an eternal death awaiting the wicked.

Elle, if it is possible that this game of life involves eternal death or eternal life as its reward, and if it is possible that this game is for keeps, with no second chances, why should you or anyone risk believing the alternative? If you lose, you lose big time.

If you believe as I do, that eternal death is a reality for the wicked and that there are no second chances following this life's probation, and if in reality the other position is correct, you have not lost anything.

In other words, my belief is the safest, whichever way the truth happens to be. smile

But if the Bible is to be believed, eternal death is real.


Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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