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Re: Are The Feast Days & Sabbaths Still Binding? [Re: Daryl] #172924
04/27/15 04:12 PM
04/27/15 04:12 PM
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kland  Offline
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For those who wish to know, here's a link to an interview by C.A. Murray from 3ABN: Feast Keeping and The Final Crisis

Re: Are The Feast Days & Sabbaths Still Binding? [Re: kland] #172974
05/02/15 11:12 PM
05/02/15 11:12 PM
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Elle  Offline
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Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: elle
So my understanding is the place to keep the feasts today is between our two ears.
So you are saying we are to determine the beginning of the year from between our two ears?


Which beginning of the year are you referring to? Rosh Hashanah (day of Trumpet) or first of Abib? Rosh Hashanah literally means head of year. It is the Jewish recognize NEW YEAR.

http://www.chabad.org/holidays/JewishNewYear/template_cdo/aid/4762/jewish/What-Is-Rosh-Hashanah.htm

God created the evening (or darkness) before the day (or light). A new day starts in the evening after sundown. My understanding is Rosh hashanah(1st day of trumpet around fall equinox) is based on this pattern. The fall equinox is when the day time are mostly dark.

Rosh Hashanah is when I believe (like the Jews) the world was created thus when the earth calendar started.

Abib is not based on creation day, but based on Passover -- the spiritual birth. The month of Abib was a memorial set for the birth of God’s firstborn coming out of Egypt. (Ex 13:3,9; Deut 16:1; Ex 4:22) All needed to be circumcised to keep the Passover when they got out. As a new born nation, they got baptized in the red sea(1Cor 10:1,2). It was a new beginning for the nation --a new corporate spiritual birth experience. The Passover set the pattern of the beginning of the path of the new spiritual life. Other feasts shows other level of spiritual growth, but any spiritual journey all starts at Passover. That's what I understand the Lords means with Abib being the first month to you.

AV Ex 12:2 This month [Abib] [shall be] unto you the beginning of months: it [shall be] the first month of the year to you.

“First month of the year TO YOU.” This doesn’t mean that there ain’t any other first month of the year for the Lord.

Originally Posted By: kland
Meaning each person has their own personalized start of year...


There’s many type of starts of year and there’s many appointed times. The Hebrew word for feasts is mow`ed that means an "appointed time". There’s many appointed times other than the feasts. Also there's many calendars and time cycle other than day, week, month, and year that the Lord has establish and uses to make many events happen.

Some Points:

-I think Rosh-hashanah supercedes Abib 1 as start of year,

-the start of year from Abib was added during Exodus

-some appointed time were instructed to be observed 40 years later. (Only the Passover was observed in the Wilderness, however Pentecost and Tabernacle was only observed when they entered the promised land),

-the form of observance of appointed times were changed at the cross (sacrifice of animals, worship in physical Temples, Priesthood only of Levites bloodlines, etc…).

Originally Posted By: kland
Meaning each person has their own personalized start of year, widely different from the northern to southern hemisphere? For that was what was under discussion.


Concerning the first of Abib based on the barley ripeness and the sighting of the first crescent of the moon -- these were Types and shadows of greater things to come. You seem to be still stuck in the “Old Covenant” form of worship.

Jerusalem timing, northern to southern hemispher -- it is all irrelevant today. Jerusalem is no longer the place where the Lord’s name is located. The location has changed place like it changed location many times in the past :

i) when they entered Canaan,
ii)like it departed from Shiloh after the corruption of the Priesthood,
iii)like it departed from Jerusalem as told by Jeremiah and seen by Ezekiel.
iv)The new location for His name/glory to dwell is in our body temple.

Old Jerusalem was only a symbolism of greater things to come. Jerusalem was pointing to our body temple.

Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: elle
So my understanding is the place to keep the feasts today is between our two ears.
So you are saying we are to determine the beginning of the year from between our two ears?
Meaning each person has their own personalized start of year


Those that hear and follow Jesus does not follow their own thoughts, words, interpretation, or appointed time. They follow only the Lord’s appointed time. Much more than those of the feasts.


Spiritually speaking -- the overcomers(the matured Barley) OBSERVE the "new moons" (what the Lord does during the feasts time).


Blessings
Re: Are The Feast Days & Sabbaths Still Binding? [Re: kland] #172975
05/03/15 12:32 AM
05/03/15 12:32 AM
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Elle  Offline
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Died February 12, 2019

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Originally Posted By: kland
For those who wish to know, here's a link to an interview by C.A. Murray from 3ABN: Feast Keeping and The Final Crisis


I just watched this video. Many problems with what Mr. Ron du Preez teachings. I will only bring up two points that is his foundation to seperate the Sabbath from the Feasts, and then nail the Feasts on the cross:

1- that the Feasts is intimately attached to the sacrificial service and the Sabbath is NOT. That's not what scriptures says. The weekly Sabbath day was attach to sacrificial ritural too like all the feasts.

Quote:
AV Num 28:9 . And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour [for] a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof: 10 [This is] the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.

AV Ezk 46:4 And the burnt offering that the prince shall offer unto the LORD in the sabbath day [shall be] six lambs without blemish, and a ram without blemish.

AV Ezk 46:12 Now when the prince shall prepare a voluntary burnt offering or peace offerings voluntarily unto the LORD, [one] shall then open him the gate that looketh toward the east, and he shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, as he did on the sabbath day: then he shall go forth; and after his going forth [one] shall shut the gate.

AV 1Ch 23:31 And to offer all burnt sacrifices unto the LORD in the sabbaths, in the new moons, and on the set feasts, by number, according to the order commanded unto them, continually before the LORD:

AV 2Ch 2:4 Behold, I build an house to the name of the LORD my God, to dedicate [it] to him, [and] to burn before him sweet incense, and for the continual shewbread, and for the burnt offerings morning and evening, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts of the LORD our God. This [is an ordinance] for ever to Israel.

AV 2Ch 31:3 [He appointed] also the king's portion of his substance for the burnt offerings, [to wit], for the morning and evening burnt offerings, and the burnt offerings for the sabbaths, and for the new moons, and for the set feasts, as [it is] written in the law of the LORD.

AV Ne 10:33 For the shewbread, and for the continual meat offering, and for the continual burnt offering, of the sabbaths, of the new moons, for the set feasts, and for the holy [things], and for the sin offerings to make an atonement for Israel, and [for] all the work of the house of our God.


2. That the Sabbath is not a Feast. That's not what scriptures say.

Quote:
AV Lv 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, [Concerning] the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim [to be] holy convocations, [even] these [are] my feasts.

AV Lv 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day [is] the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work [therein]: it [is] the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.


The weekly Sabbath was the first feast(appointed time) mentioned in the list.

I agree the weekly Sabbath is not set on a monthly cycle, however it is still an "appointed time". Remember the Hebrew word mow'ed means "appointed time". There are 223 occurrences of mow'ed in the OT and only 23 of these are translated as "feasts".

Further :

He seperates the ceremonial Feasts Sabbath days from the weekly Sabbath, and from the yearly Sabbath and from the Jubilee Year Sabbath. Well, he probably didn't get that the Shabbath H7676 means "intermission" and is an extension form of the word H7673 shabath(spelled with one "b" and means "rest"). I know this might seem like pulling hair, but there's a distinction in the meanings and that's why there's two words.

All of the Sabbaths are intermission that represents intervals or gap of time at different level of the plan of salvation. The weekly Sabbath being the most basic and lowest form is like a foundational pattern or type where other Sabbaths is based on.

So basically they are all related and points to the greater Sabbath of all which is the Jubilee when all work cease because all debts are cancels and the people are restore back into their inheritance.


Blessings
Re: Are The Feast Days & Sabbaths Still Binding? [Re: Daryl] #172977
05/03/15 02:36 AM
05/03/15 02:36 AM
dedication  Online Content

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Originally Posted By: elle
any spiritual journey all starts at Passover. That's what I understand the Lords means with Abib being the first month to you.


That thought is very true -- our spiritual journey starts with Passover. In the OT the Passover "feast" was a type pointing forward to the real Passover starting point of our spiritual journey. The real starting point, unlike the type, isn't a set date, but a personal experience. A personal experience of recognizing the meaning of the cross and what Christ did for us there, His blood on the doorposts of our souls -- breaking the bondage of sin, offering us forgiveness and release from the death sentence, and leading us on to grow and walk on the spiritual journey throughout the rest of our lives with HIM!



1 Cor. 5:7 For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:

Having experienced the reality of Christ our Passover, we, through the power of His Holy Spirit "cast out the old leaven" of malice and all manner of sin, and now partake of the sincerity and truth -- walking with our Savior and Lord, not just for a week, but for the rest of our lives.





Re: Are The Feast Days & Sabbaths Still Binding? [Re: Daryl] #172978
05/03/15 03:06 AM
05/03/15 03:06 AM
dedication  Online Content

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The weekly Sabbath, while having several similarities with the ceremonial Sabbaths, stands apart from them in several ways.

1. It was part of God's creation -- a gift to mankind -- before sin even entered.

The ceremonial Sabbaths, as well as the jubilees, etc. were added much later in the history of humanity and all have to do with outlining the plan of salvation.

The 7th day Sabbath however stands apart as part of the Creation week, -- as a day set apart for mankind to fellowship with God their Creator in the days of their innocence.

True, it later also pointed back to liberation (Deut 5:15 when God freed them from bondage so they were free to worship Him) and forward to restoration and thus was in some ways incorporated with the "types".
Yet, the 7th day Sabbath also stands alone in way the ceremonial Sabbaths can not stand alone.

2. The 7th day Sabbath is part of God's law, written by God's own finger in the "10 words".

3. The 7th day Sabbath establishes the reason why God deserves our worship. Because He is the Creator!
He is our Creator, and the 7th day Sabbath, believed as it is introduced in Genesis is the bulwark against satan's deceptive evolutionary theories that removes man from His Creator.

Psalms 100:3 Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.
Psalms 95:6 O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker.
Rev. 14:7 worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Re: Are The Feast Days & Sabbaths Still Binding? [Re: Greg Goodchild] #172993
05/03/15 12:41 PM
05/03/15 12:41 PM
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Alchemy  Offline
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Posts: 2,264
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Originally Posted By: Greg Goodchild
I would agree that we are no longer "bound" to keep the annual sabbath/feasts. I believe that they were done away with in the sense of mandated keeping. I believe, however, that the annual feasts had at least a dual application. I believe that they were yearly reminders of God's plan of salvation, and I believe that they were prophetic guideposts in the process of salvation. As SDAs we all accept that the 3 first feasts were fulfilled typologically in the death of Christ on Calvary. The feast of Pentecost was fulfilled in Acts 2. We have nearly completed the feast of Trumpets, we are in the Day of Atonement, and the the feast of Booths is getting ready to start. So the annual Sabbaths are still in effect as prophetic guidelines but not in effect as annual mandated requirements.


I believe we have transferred from the typical service, or worldly sanctuary, to the anti-typical service, or Heavenly Sanctuary. From what we learned from the typical service we are now able to follow what is happening in the anti-typical service by faith.

We need to remember that Christ told the Israelites that their temple was left to them desolate, so practicing that service now would actually be bondage.

Re: Are The Feast Days & Sabbaths Still Binding? [Re: dedication] #172994
05/03/15 01:33 PM
05/03/15 01:33 PM
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Elle  Offline
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Died February 12, 2019

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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,536
Canada
Originally Posted By: dedication
The weekly Sabbath, while having several similarities with the ceremonial Sabbaths, stands apart from them in several ways.

1. It was part of God's creation -- a gift to mankind -- before sin even entered.

The ceremonial Sabbaths, as well as the jubilees, etc. were added much later in the history of humanity and all have to do with outlining the plan of salvation.

The 7th day Sabbath however stands apart as part of the Creation week, -- as a day set apart for mankind to fellowship with God their Creator in the days of their innocence.

True, it later also pointed back to liberation (Deut 5:15 when God freed them from bondage so they were free to worship Him) and forward to restoration and thus was in some ways incorporated with the "types".
Yet, the 7th day Sabbath also stands alone in way the ceremonial Sabbaths can not stand alone.

I don’t see scripture saying that the Sabbath stand alone.

1- Number 28 and 29 shows the order of offerings. In this the Sabbath does not stand alone but on the daily sacrifices. And other sacrifices(monthly and the feasts) are done afterwards showing order and dependencies by which all points to various Christ works.

Just because the laws was given to Moses 2500 years after creation, doesn't mean that they weren't in existance. The plan was set before creation. Jesus was slain before creation.

I incorrectly said that the Weekly Sabbath is the lowest form of Sabbath. This is not true, it is the evening sacrifice (symbolically representing the cross and the actual time Jesus was sacrificed) that is the lowest form of Sabbath. In His continual work we all find and have any form of rest.

Here is the order of sacrifices listed in Number 28 and 29 :

-2 Daily continual offerings: Evening & morning sacrifices are the first sacrifices prepared in the day showing importance in rank and influence. Also all other sacrifices are laid NEXT to the daily showing that the daily is the center.

-the Sabbath sacrifice: comes next and is always based on the daily by placing it next to it.

-the monthly sacrifice: comes next in order and is also always based on the daily that needs to be place next to the daily. At times the first of the month is also a Sabbath day; thus the Sabbath needs to be offered BEFORE the monthly sacrifice.

-the different feasts sacrifices : comes next in order that is also always placed next to the daily. Only the feast of Trumpet coincide with the monthly sacrifice. Thus the daily needs to be done first, then the monthly, then the feast of trumpet. If that day is also a Sabbath day, then the Sabbath sacrifice always needs to be done BEFORE the monthly.

-all sacrifices are to be layed out next to the daily, and besides each other showing dependencies and their order. The daily is the most important one and all other are of equale value but set in an order.


2- Several scriptures including Ezekiel future prophecies lays out the Sabbaths(multiple weekly Sabbaths) with the new moons(multiple new moons) and the feasts(multiple feasts). These are all bunch together showing the weekly Sabbaths are not set apart from the other.
Originally Posted By: Scriptures
AV 1Ch 23:31 And to offer all burnt sacrifices unto the LORD in the sabbaths, in the new moons, and on the set feasts, by number, according to the order commanded unto them, continually before the LORD:

AV 2Ch 2:4 Behold, I build an house to the name of the LORD my God, to dedicate [it] to him, [and] to burn before him sweet incense, and for the continual shewbread, and for the burnt offerings morning and evening, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts of the LORD our God. This [is an ordinance] for ever to Israel.

AV 2Ch 8:13 Even after a certain rate every day, offering according to the commandment of Moses, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts, three times in the year, [even] in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles.

AV 2Ch 31:3 [He appointed] also the king's portion of his substance for the burnt offerings, [to wit], for the morning and evening burnt offerings, and the burnt offerings for the sabbaths, and for the new moons, and for the set feasts, as [it is] written in the law of the LORD.

AV Ne 10:33 For the shewbread, and for the continual meat offering, and for the continual burnt offering, of the sabbaths, of the new moons, for the set feasts, and for the holy [things], and for the sin offerings to make an atonement for Israel, and [for] all the work of the house of our God.

AV Isa 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; [it is] iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

AV Ezk 45:17 And it shall be the prince's part [to give] burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

AV Ho 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.


Originally Posted By: dedication
2. The 7th day Sabbath is part of God's law, written by God's own finger in the "10 words".

The Lord wanted to write His laws on the hearts of the Israelites not on stones. But they couldn't bear hearing His voice.

The Lord had not finished giving the law when the Israelites couldn’t bear anymore “And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.”(Ex 20:19) There was more of the law to hear, but they couldn’t handle hearing any more for they were afraid to die. So they sent Moses to hear the rest and repeat these to them later on.

They only heard the 10Cs and the act of writing the 10Cs on Tablet of STONES was to symbolize that the Law was written OUTSIDE of their heart and perhaps to illustrate their stony heart condition. The 10Cs and all other laws given to Moses were place inside the Most Holy Place that symbolized our heart. That’s were all the Lord’s laws are really to be written and not on STONES.

Originally Posted By: dedication
3. The 7th day Sabbath establishes the reason why God deserves our worship. Because He is the Creator!
He is our Creator, and the 7th day Sabbath, believed as it is introduced in Genesis is the bulwark against satan's deceptive evolutionary theories that removes man from His Creator.

I don’t think the Lord is concern about the evolutionary theories. He’s above all that and can disprove that if He wished at any time.

The 7th day Sabbath purpose and its meaning is not to prove He’s the Creator and that everyone should bow down before Him. Jesus said Himself that the Sabbath was created FOR MAN and not the other way around. To give man an “intermission” (H7676 Shabbath that is in the 10Cs and the main word used in all other laws) so man may “rest” (H7673 Shabath with one “b”) from his work. That’s what I read scripture saying to be the purpose and the meaning of the Sabbath. Ex 23:12 “Six days thou shalt do thy works, and on the 7th day thou shalt rest(H7673): …thine ox…ass…son…stranger…may be refreshed.

God only set His creation work as a pattern of this principle for man’s purpose. Exodus 31:17 says “the Lord made heaven and earth and on the 7th day he rested(H7673) and was refreshed”. Now do you think the Lord needed to rest and needed to be refresh on the 7th day??? I don’t believe so, but He did “cease”[7673 the primary meaning of Shabath is to desist from our work or exertion ] His creation work on that 7th day so to set a pattern for man.

Scriptures clearly teaches that there’s not only the weekly 7th day that the Lord commanded man to cease their work. There are the 7 ceremonial Feasts days, the yearly Sabbath, and the Jubilee Sabbath year.


Blessings
Re: Are The Feast Days & Sabbaths Still Binding? [Re: Elle] #172995
05/03/15 01:49 PM
05/03/15 01:49 PM
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Elle  Offline
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So the question is are the Feast Days & Sabbaths still binding? These(including the weekly Sabbath) are all are types and shadows. Are we bound to keep these???

For sure a big YES we are bound to keep these spiritually which includes all their related sacrifices. I don't believe any of God's laws were nail to the cross. What was nail to the cross was the extra Jewish laws and all the precepts of man.

I do believe that the form to keep the Sabbaths, the new moons, the Feasts has changed and we are not to keep the literal types and shadows.

Concerning the 7th day Sabbath, I don't believe it is greater than any other Sabbaths or any of the feasts. I do know that man (still in the state of mortality) do need some literal time to cease(rest) from their work so they may be refreshed. But I don't know exactly how yet to apply these with the mind of christ.

Something else to consider, the Priests having access to the linen garment(=whom receive incorruptability, immortality) of Ezek 44-46 do not need to rest. Neither are these Priests included in the law of Jubilee. The Levites are mentioned but not the priests. So I see that any of the Sabbaths rest does not apply to them(Priests allow to serve in the Most Holy Place) because rest becomes obsolete to them. Their linen garments (=immortality) prevents them from sweating when they work. By "entering the promised land" they have entered in the Lord's rest.

Actually, in the types and shadows, the Priests work more on the weekly Sabbath than any other 6 days. These are all prophetic types that we need to include in our consideration to answer these questions scriptually.

So currently I am still trying to understand these and am looking forward to see how the Lord will apply all these Sabbaths types and shadows in the Millennium Age.


Blessings
Re: Are The Feast Days & Sabbaths Still Binding? [Re: Elle] #173031
05/04/15 09:25 PM
05/04/15 09:25 PM
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kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Elle
2. That the Sabbath is not a Feast. That's not what scriptures say.

Quote:
AV Lv 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, [Concerning] the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim [to be] holy convocations, [even] these [are] my feasts.

AV Lv 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day [is] the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work [therein]: it [is] the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.


The weekly Sabbath was the first feast(appointed time) mentioned in the list.

Don't forget:
Le 23:4 ¶ These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

Le 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.....


Is the Sabbath the first feast? Or is Passover? Is the Sabbath a feast at all? That is, explain verse 4, why it is there. Nothing in verse 3 about offering or sacrifice. But when the feasts are listed, there is.

Quote:
Remember the Hebrew word mow'ed means "appointed time".

Does it? That's not what they said in the video. Were they wrong? When I do a search, I find it doesn't mean "appointed time", but can have a variety of meanings. Please explain.

(I'm not sure why you seem so absolute on these things when the post above you seemed to say that "feasts" are now a personal experience kept on a personal basis for each person according to their own mind....)

Re: Are The Feast Days & Sabbaths Still Binding? [Re: Elle] #173034
05/05/15 02:32 AM
05/05/15 02:32 AM
dedication  Online Content

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Originally Posted By: Elle


Concerning the 7th day Sabbath, I don't believe it is greater than any other Sabbaths or any of the feasts.


And that thought (which is quite common amongst those urging feast keeping) is probably the biggest reason that convinced me this "feast movement" has major problems.

The Creation Sabbath has deep meaning, far beyond the festivals which were added more than 2000 years later because people needed an object lesson to understand the plan of salvation.

Also, those who serve in the temple need the Sabbath just like everyone else. That's why they had 24 orders or divisions of priests. Each order was responsible for ministering during a different week and Sabbath. In this way the priests were able to rest on the majority of the 7th day Sabbath days of the year. Yet they all had to serve on festival sabbaths.

And they were not immortal --
Hebrews 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:

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as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
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