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Re: Is Ben Carson Right? [Re: ] #183861
05/28/17 08:44 PM
05/28/17 08:44 PM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: Gary K
This socialistic politically correct nonsense that Carson can't remember what it is like to be poor is just out and out nonsense. Carson is going to forget the formative years of his life? Riiiiight! NOT!!!!
This socialistic politically correct nonsense that Carson can't remember what it is like to be poor is just out and out nonsense. Carson is going to forget the formative years of his life? Riiiiight! NOT!!!![/quote]To be "socialistic" it would have to be a political theory that advocates state ownership of industry and capital. How you drew such a comparison from the one-sentence comment I made is something I will likely never know. Your comment here misquotes me in many ways. Here is what I said:
Quote:
"I think the multi-million dollar mansion he has recently purchased has softened him up the wrong way. He has obviously lost touch with the reality of poverty."
I did not even come close to stating that Carson would or will "forget his formative years." I said that he has recently purchased a multi-million dollar mansion, and that this shows something to the world, about what he is doing and why.

I dont think you are giving "socialism" a fair definition by stretching it way out there somewhere to try to force it to mean the one-sentence comment/reflection I made on Carson's observable actions in his new appointment for "helping" the poor.

One might note too, at this point that according to the article I referenced that Carson has slashed the budget for "helping" the "poor" by 5-6 billion dollars.

As others have already pointed out the Bible also calls people "poor" in several different ways, but I am not questioning that. I am questioning the disparaging comments and actions of someone who should know better. He is either in the process of forgetting, or just in the ignoring of his "formative years."

Like it or not, money does talk, and it does change some people. I am simply reflecting on real life observations.

I have not drawn firm conclusions in this matter yet.


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: Is Ben Carson Right? [Re: The Wanderer] #183863
05/29/17 01:08 AM
05/29/17 01:08 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: Elle
You're jumping into false conclusion Green. I had already changed my post before I had read your reply. As you know...English is not my mother tongue....Plus I suffer from some sort of expression dyslexia...I think it is quite obvious when reading my posts....especially those that I don't take the necessary time to re-edit them....it takes me quite awhile to write a post that I often have to re-read and make correction so the expression can at least has some level of readability and clarity.

Just like you did for your own post that I'm currently replying. I've noticed you had changed some stuff from the first posting that I had read. I didn't think anything wrong of that. Even an English expert who knows many languages, like yourself, might go back and re-write some of the words and thoughts earlier expressed.

I have no idea what you are talking about, Elle. For your information, you again make false statements. I have not edited any of my posts in this thread. You may need to get some help. Your mind is playing tricks on you. Please put less confidence in your perceptions and memory until you have gotten some help.

Originally Posted By: Elle
What I think was "dishonest" (as you had to skim over 200+ Biblical text about the poor to pull out the ones that favored your stand) is this list was by far a true representation of the Biblical cause of poverty. I came up with 7 additional ones from the top of my head; but if I would of had the time to read all the 200+ texts...I probably could of seen some more.


I am glad you feel the list was a true representation. I don't understand why you think it is dishonest to use selected Bible verses. Next time you choose one of the 31,102 verses in the Bible, will it be "dishonest" to quote it?

Again, please consider getting some help. You may be deficient in some essential nutrient or vitamin, or you may have some elemental or biochemical toxicity affecting your mind. For now, I see no point in continuing this discussion with you. At present, you seem unable to properly interpret what I say.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Is Ben Carson Right? [Re: The Wanderer] #183872
05/30/17 02:39 AM
05/30/17 02:39 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
I hope this is the right forum section to post this in? I did my best guess. Please move if it actually is in the wrong section. smile

It appears that Dr Ben Carson is placing the blame for "being poor" on the poor.
Quote:
On Wednesday night, Housing and Urban Development Secretary Ben Carson — whose budget to help low-income households would be cut by more than $6 billion next year — added his own thoughts. He said in a radio interview that "poverty to a large extent is also a state of mind."

Carson — who himself grew up in poverty to become a widely acclaimed neurosurgeon — said people with the "right mind set" can have everything taken away from them, and they'll pull themselves up. He believes the converse is true as well. "You take somebody with the wrong mind-set, you can give them everything in the world (and) they'll work their way right back down to the bottom," Carson said.
Being Poor Is A State Of Mind??

To what degree is Carson right? To what degree is Carson wrong? Is there some happy "middle road" here? Would the Bible support Carson's statement on "being poor?"


The Bible does teach that we shouldn't help the poor if their lazy!

Re: Is Ben Carson Right? [Re: Elle] #183873
05/30/17 02:44 AM
05/30/17 02:44 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: Elle
That's a typical Arminian-SDA mindset. Not surprised. Nevertheless, we should pray for Carson to come to the Lord's understanding.

My view of poverty.... it is the Lord that makes the poor via His judgment that brings calamities on the land and by putting Beastly Empires over us that "eat grass" (==men) (Dan 4:25,32,33; 1Pet 1:24 "for all flesh is as grass").

Like the last Beastly Empire is Mystery Babylon who created this amazing DEBT system.....that made all Nations extremely POOR. Carson wants to blame it on the people??? I guess he still doesn't understand how the current economic system works. see discussion & video here.


Excellent post Elle.

This will vary from place to place, but, a lot of the poor in the USA and even around the world are NOT poor because they did it to themselves. There are a lot of people who want to work and can work, but, work and money are not available to them. This is not their fault.

This is why people need to stop trusting their governments and industries and turn to God for wisdom and hope.

Re: Is Ben Carson Right? [Re: The Wanderer] #183874
05/30/17 02:46 AM
05/30/17 02:46 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: The Wanderer
Originally Posted By: Elle
That's a typical Arminian-SDA mindset. Not surprised. Nevertheless, we should pray for Carson to come to the Lord's understanding.

My view of poverty.... it is the Lord that makes the poor via His judgment that brings calamities on the land and by putting Beastly Empires over us that "eat grass" (==men) (Dan 4:25,32,33; 1Pet 1:24 "for all flesh is as grass").

Like the last Beastly Empire is Mystery Babylon who created this amazing DEBT system.....that made all Nations extremely POOR. Carson wants to blame it on the people??? I guess he still doesn't understand how the current economic system works. see discussion & video here.
So you are disagreeing with Carson and saying that "poverty" is not a state of mind?

Myself, I certainly do not agree with him. he seems really out of touch on the issue.


I hate to say it, but, too often, I find Brother Carson too political in his thinking.

Re: Is Ben Carson Right? [Re: Elle] #183875
05/30/17 02:51 AM
05/30/17 02:51 AM
A
Alchemy  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2018

Most Dedicated Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,264
Asia
Originally Posted By: Elle
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Elle
This is a typical Arminian mindset that we SDAs are champion of. There's some truth to this. And yes Carson did come out of poverty however, thanks to his mom and the Lord's work. Without the Lord intervening Carson wouldn't of been the exception or one of "the chosen one" (well at least chosen to get thru the 1st veil...there's still 2 other veils to go thru).

Are you saying the reason people are poor is because their mom and the Lord fail to intervene?

No I said that Carson path was that. Not many experienced "getting out of poverty" like Carson have. Actually, most did not.

Poverty is increasing in all nations and will increase further as the current economic system further crashes and if the DEBT can get's kick further down the road without being address. Reality is ... all Western countries are in DEBT above their eye balls no matter if some individuals inside the country stricked it rich and has a successful story like Carson.

My point is Carson view is very narrow and not balance and I've listed 3 reasons in the above 2 posts up to now why I think Carson view is not balance and not realistic.

But you kland, from what I recall from other discussion....you probably agree with Carson. That's ok. We don't need to agree on every thing.


Another excellent post Elle.

As long as we have to get our money from debt, there isn't any way to stop the debt crisis from growing! Factories and jobs are going to be lost regardless of your state of mind.

Re: Is Ben Carson Right? [Re: Alchemy] #183878
05/30/17 05:46 AM
05/30/17 05:46 AM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: Alchemy

Excellent post Elle.

This will vary from place to place, but, a lot of the poor in the USA and even around the world are NOT poor because they did it to themselves. There are a lot of people who want to work and can work, but, work and money are not available to them. This is not their fault.

This is why people need to stop trusting their governments and industries and turn to God for wisdom and hope.
I agree, her post makes a lot of sense. The Bible defines how we are to relate to our governments, and it is our responsibility to do so respectfully.

I feel that Carson is out of line with the statements I have read about his take on "poverty." Nothing I have said about Carson is intended personally, but I do think money sometimes changes people, and having come from "poverty" myself, i can categorically state Carson is wrong in what he has publically said. I dont want to fight with him, or about him. I am addressing an idea he is putting forth.


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: Is Ben Carson Right? [Re: Elle] #183887
05/30/17 02:51 PM
05/30/17 02:51 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
Midland
Originally Posted By: Elle
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: Elle
This is a typical Arminian mindset that we SDAs are champion of. There's some truth to this. And yes Carson did come out of poverty however, thanks to his mom and the Lord's work. Without the Lord intervening Carson wouldn't of been the exception or one of "the chosen one" (well at least chosen to get thru the 1st veil...there's still 2 other veils to go thru).

Are you saying the reason people are poor is because their mom and the Lord fail to intervene?

No I said that Carson path was that. Not many experienced "getting out of poverty" like Carson have. Actually, most did not.
But you are. Else, you are saying Carson made a choice. Therefore, others can make a choice. And you therefore, would be supporting what Carson says.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with Carson. I'm just calling your statement an error, "Without the Lord intervening Carson wouldn't of been the exception", when you make that a comparison to poor in general.

Without.
Therefore.
People are poor because of their mom or the Lord.

Your words, not mine.

Re: Is Ben Carson Right? [Re: kland] #183888
05/30/17 03:16 PM
05/30/17 03:16 PM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: kland
There's some truth to this. And yes Carson did come out of poverty however, thanks to his mom and the Lord's work. Without the Lord intervening Carson wouldn't of been the exception or one of "the chosen one" (well at least chosen to get thru the 1st veil...there's still 2 other veils to go thru).

Rather than what the Lord "failed" to do, it looks like Elleis simply saying what she thinks the Lord did do, through Carson's mother. She is trying to point out a success, and a success that I have no problem with either. He did a lot with a little.

I am simply questioning Carson's idea in this topic where he appears that he is saying people are poor because of their wrong-thinking. If that was so then,how do some ungodly people get rich?

It is a common question that many ask,and one which requires no pointed attacks on Elle


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: Is Ben Carson Right? [Re: The Wanderer] #183889
05/30/17 03:18 PM
05/30/17 03:18 PM
T
The Wanderer  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
It is likely that I do not know everything about this topic,and that I have yet to learn what I am missing the boat on.:)


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
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