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Using quotes from Ellen White #187170
08/04/18 11:32 PM
08/04/18 11:32 PM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,100
Florida, USA
A lot of people say Ellen White said not to use her quotes, or she says not to use it on the pulpit, or some variation of this. But that is not what she said, lets go over it in context:

On Quoting Sister White—How can the Lord bless those who manifest a spirit of “I don't care,” a spirit which leads them to walk contrary to the light which the Lord has given them? But I do not ask you to take my words. Lay Sister White to one side. Do not quote my words again as long as you live until you can obey the Bible. [Ellen White was meeting the leaders of the church as a group for the first time in ten years. Situations in both the General Conference and in our Battle Creek-based institutions had in many cases reached a low ebb. Testimonies calling for a return to Bible principles had been received, theoretically, but no real improvement had taken place.

Most delegates coming to the General Conference session, which would open the next morning, sensed that there must be changes. Ellen White would in the opening meeting rebuke institutional leaders and call for a reorganization of the General Conference. It was her burden that the changes that needed to be made would be based on Bible principles and not just on the word of Ellen White. In this address she declared:

“God has told me that my testimony must be borne to this Conference, and that I must not try to make men believe it. My work is to leave the truth with the people, and those who appreciate the light from heaven will accept the truth.”—Manuscript 43, 1901.

Counsel would come through her as the messenger of the Lord and this counsel should be heeded, but work in depth must be done, work based on the principles set forth in God's Word.—Compilers.] When you make the Bible your food, your meat, and your drink, when you make its principles the elements of your character, you will know better how to receive counsel from God. I exalt the precious Word before you today. Do not repeat what I have said, saying, “Sister White said this,” and “Sister White said that.” Find out what the Lord God of Israel says, and then do what He commands.—Manuscript 43, 1901. (From an address to church leaders the night before the opening of the General Conference session of 1901.) 3SM 33.1

Notice she says "Lay Sister White to one side. Do not quote my words again as long as you live until you can obey the Bible." and it was directed at the 1901 Conference leaders and some of them who had sent her away for 10 long years. Context is always important...

Last edited by Rick H; 08/04/18 11:34 PM.
Re: Using quotes from Ellen White [Re: Rick H] #187184
08/07/18 11:11 AM
08/07/18 11:11 AM
His child  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Ellen White clearly said, "In the city of Portland the Lord ordained me as His messenger" {RH, May 18, 1911 par. 3}.

The prophet Malachi made it very clear "For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge...for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts" (Malachi 2:7).

Simple truth utterly rejected by those in authority who should know better.

Then they teach others to reject the testimony that does not conform with their faulty opinions.

Bottom line: At times, sister White's positions are so twisted that some folks make her say something that she never said.


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Using quotes from Ellen White [Re: His child] #187338
08/22/18 06:34 AM
08/22/18 06:34 AM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,100
Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: His child
Ellen White clearly said, "In the city of Portland the Lord ordained me as His messenger" {RH, May 18, 1911 par. 3}.

The prophet Malachi made it very clear "For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge...for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts" (Malachi 2:7).

Simple truth utterly rejected by those in authority who should know better.

Then they teach others to reject the testimony that does not conform with their faulty opinions.

Bottom line: At times, sister White's positions are so twisted that some folks make her say something that she never said.


So should she be used from the pulpit?

Last edited by Rick H; 08/22/18 06:34 AM.
Re: Using quotes from Ellen White [Re: Rick H] #187340
08/22/18 01:27 PM
08/22/18 01:27 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: rick h
So should she be used from the pulpit?

SDA church services have good the way of the world.

It has often been presented to me that there should be less sermonizing by ministers, acting merely as local pastors of churches, and that greater personal efforts should be put forth. Our people should not be made to think that they need to listen to a sermon every Sabbath. Many who listen frequently to sermons, even though the truth be presented in clear lines, learn but little. Often it would be more profitable if the Sabbath meetings were of the nature of a Bible-class study. Bible truth should be presented in such a simple, interesting manner that all can easily understand and grasp the principles of salvation. {Lt192-1906}


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Using quotes from Ellen White [Re: Rick H] #187342
08/23/18 09:01 AM
08/23/18 09:01 AM
His child  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Originally Posted By: Rick H
Originally Posted By: His child
Ellen White clearly said, "In the city of Portland the Lord ordained me as His messenger" {RH, May 18, 1911 par. 3}.

The prophet Malachi made it very clear "For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge...for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts" (Malachi 2:7).

Simple truth utterly rejected by those in authority who should know better.

Then they teach others to reject the testimony that does not conform with their faulty opinions.

Bottom line: At times, sister White's positions are so twisted that some folks make her say something that she never said.


So should she be used from the pulpit?


If EGW is not quoted from the pulpit then no one else should be quoted from the pulpit other than the Bible.

But it is common practice to quote sources other than Scripture. So are extra biblical sources that are quoted from the pulpit more authoritative than the Spirit of Prophecy?


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Using quotes from Ellen White [Re: APL] #187348
08/23/18 04:44 PM
08/23/18 04:44 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
Midland
Originally Posted By: APL
Often it would be more profitable if the Sabbath meetings were of the nature of a Bible-class study. Bible truth should be presented in such a simple, interesting manner that all can easily understand and grasp the principles of salvation. {Lt192-1906}
Unfortunately, rather than the main thing, there is very little Bible study going on in the churches I'm aware of. Go through the lesson of what someone else tells you what to think and that's about it.

Re: Using quotes from Ellen White [Re: kland] #187351
08/24/18 01:38 AM
08/24/18 01:38 AM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: APL
Often it would be more profitable if the Sabbath meetings were of the nature of a Bible-class study. Bible truth should be presented in such a simple, interesting manner that all can easily understand and grasp the principles of salvation. {Lt192-1906}
Unfortunately, rather than the main thing, there is very little Bible study going on in the churches I'm aware of. Go through the lesson of what someone else tells you what to think and that's about it.

Read the book, "Pagan Christianity" by Frank Viola and George Barna. It is an eye opener.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Using quotes from Ellen White [Re: His child] #187388
09/01/18 10:44 AM
09/01/18 10:44 AM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,100
Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: His child
Originally Posted By: Rick H
Originally Posted By: His child
Ellen White clearly said, "In the city of Portland the Lord ordained me as His messenger" {RH, May 18, 1911 par. 3}.

The prophet Malachi made it very clear "For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge...for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts" (Malachi 2:7).

Simple truth utterly rejected by those in authority who should know better.

Then they teach others to reject the testimony that does not conform with their faulty opinions.

Bottom line: At times, sister White's positions are so twisted that some folks make her say something that she never said.


So should she be used from the pulpit?


If EGW is not quoted from the pulpit then no one else should be quoted from the pulpit other than the Bible.

But it is common practice to quote sources other than Scripture. So are extra biblical sources that are quoted from the pulpit more authoritative than the Spirit of Prophecy?


I would agree, and of the opinion that this idea of not using the Spirit of Prophecy in its fullness is of an evil origin.

Last edited by Rick H; 09/01/18 10:44 AM.
Re: Using quotes from Ellen White [Re: Rick H] #187395
09/01/18 11:15 PM
09/01/18 11:15 PM
dedication  Offline
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
There are two sides to this issue.

Yes, those who would ban the Spirit of Prophecy from the pulpit, are definitely banning something that was given for our good. Her writings do have an important place, and when used with propriety they add depth and relevancy to a sermon.


Yet some come to the pulpit and basically read through a long list of compiled quotes from EGW with only brief sentences of their own in between, and hardly NO actual Bible study.

These "preachers" have a tendency to go on for well over an hour as there is always "one more quote" they have to read, that says what was already said 20 times, in just a slightly different way.

I do believe we should be preaching the BIBLE from the pulpit.
Visitors that come to our church should see that we are a people of THE BOOK, seriously considering the messages of scripture.


When EGW is used to bring a Biblical passage into clearer focus, that's one thing, that's good;
but when a compilation of her quotes constitutes the whole sermon, it tends to do more damage then good.

Re: Using quotes from Ellen White [Re: Rick H] #187401
09/02/18 01:42 AM
09/02/18 01:42 AM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: dedication
I do believe we should be preaching the BIBLE from the pulpit.
Part of the problem is we have too much pulpit preaching.

It has often been presented to me that there should be less sermonizing by ministers acting merely as local pastors of churches, and that greater personal efforts should be put forth. Our people should not be made to think that they need to listen to a sermon every Sabbath. Many who listen frequently to sermons, even though the truth be presented in clear lines, learn but little. Often it would be more profitable if the Sabbath meetings were of the nature of a Bible class study. Bible truth should be presented in such a simple, interesting manner that all can easily understand and grasp the principles of salvation. {Lt 192-1906}

Much of the church service as conducted today is nothing like it was in the time of the apostles and shortly after when the church flourished. It has taken on may pagan rituals.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Using quotes from Ellen White [Re: APL] #187402
09/02/18 02:51 AM
09/02/18 02:51 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: APL
Much of the church service as conducted today is nothing like it was in the time of the apostles and shortly after when the church flourished. It has taken on may pagan rituals.

You are suffering from ARR, Acute Revisionist Retrophilia. Snap out of it! Paul to the church of the first century in Corinth:
  • 1 Cor. 5:1-2

    "It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles — that a man has his father’s wife! And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you."
     
  • 1 Cor. 11:20-22

    "When you come together in one place, it is not to eat the Lord’s Supper. For in eating, each one takes his own supper ahead of others; and one is hungry and another is drunk. What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you in this? I do not praise you."
///

Re: Using quotes from Ellen White [Re: Rick H] #187405
09/02/18 07:12 AM
09/02/18 07:12 AM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
True - somethings are still the same. But did the early church have huge buildings? no. Did they pulpits and pews and stained glass windows? Nope. Wasthe worship service dominated by an ordain pastor? Nope, all shared what they experience. Today the church is a passive, stagnant mess. Church is not something to go to. It is something you are. There should be no "jerusalem centers". So much of what we church today is tradition and paganism.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Using quotes from Ellen White [Re: dedication] #187406
09/02/18 09:53 AM
09/02/18 09:53 AM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,100
Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: dedication
There are two sides to this issue.

Yes, those who would ban the Spirit of Prophecy from the pulpit, are definitely banning something that was given for our good. Her writings do have an important place, and when used with propriety they add depth and relevancy to a sermon.


Yet some come to the pulpit and basically read through a long list of compiled quotes from EGW with only brief sentences of their own in between, and hardly NO actual Bible study.

These "preachers" have a tendency to go on for well over an hour as there is always "one more quote" they have to read, that says what was already said 20 times, in just a slightly different way.

I do believe we should be preaching the BIBLE from the pulpit.
Visitors that come to our church should see that we are a people of THE BOOK, seriously considering the messages of scripture.


When EGW is used to bring a Biblical passage into clearer focus, that's one thing, that's good;
but when a compilation of her quotes constitutes the whole sermon, it tends to do more damage then good.


Well, I had the sermon on Sabbath, and when I looked, I had a great number of quotes from Spirit of Prophecy. I normally have a Bible text, then a quote, and then the lesson to be learned from it. But part of the sermon was on the thief on the cross, and scripture is very brief on what happened with the thief. So I had to rely more heavily on the Spirit of Prophecy then apply the lesson being given.

Sometimes the Bible is silent or doesn't expand on certain events, so Spirit of Prophecy fills in. Otherwise, we are just giving our opinion on a verse or the text, and that can get problematic to say the least.

Re: Using quotes from Ellen White [Re: APL] #187410
09/02/18 11:40 PM
09/02/18 11:40 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: APL
True - somethings are still the same.

But did the early church have huge buildings? no.

Did they pulpits and pews and stained glass windows? Nope.

Was the worship service dominated by an ordain pastor? Nope, all shared what they experience.

Today the church is a passive, stagnant mess. Church is not something to go to. It is something you are. There should be no "jerusalem centers". So much of what we church today is tradition and paganism.


NAME OF PATIENT: apl
DIAGNOSIS: Acute Revisionist Retrophilia
PROBABLE CAUSE: The Testimonies of Ellen White
PRESCRIPTION: Paul's letter to Timothy, 1 Tim. 3

///

Re: Using quotes from Ellen White [Re: Rick H] #187411
09/03/18 12:24 AM
09/03/18 12:24 AM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Jim - read "Pagan Christianity" by Frank Viola and George Barna. Funny, they are not even Adventists and don't even quote Ellen White. See now who needs to revise their view. Good luck!


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Using quotes from Ellen White [Re: Rick H] #187413
09/03/18 03:51 AM
09/03/18 03:51 AM
dedication  Offline
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
Originally Posted By: Rick H


Well, I had the sermon on Sabbath, and when I looked, I had a great number of quotes from Spirit of Prophecy. I normally have a Bible text, then a quote, and then the lesson to be learned from it. But part of the sermon was on the thief on the cross, and scripture is very brief on what happened with the thief. So I had to rely more heavily on the Spirit of Prophecy then apply the lesson being given.

Sometimes the Bible is silent or doesn't expand on certain events, so Spirit of Prophecy fills in. Otherwise, we are just giving our opinion on a verse or the text, and that can get problematic to say the least.


I don't have any problem with looking to EGW's writings as commentary to help understand a Biblical story.

Re: Using quotes from Ellen White [Re: APL] #187449
09/15/18 01:44 PM
09/15/18 01:44 PM
N
Nadi  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2020
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 288
Canada
Originally Posted By: APL
It has taken on may pagan rituals.

Could you kindly elaborate on these "pagan rituals."


"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
Re: Using quotes from Ellen White [Re: Nadi] #187452
09/15/18 03:47 PM
09/15/18 03:47 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: Nadi
Originally Posted By: APL
It has taken on may pagan rituals.

Could you kindly elaborate on these "pagan rituals."
You mean like having big church buildings? When Christianity was born, it was the only religion on the planet that had no sacred objects, no sacred persons, and no sacred spaces. Christians were the only religious people on earth who did not erect sacred buildings for their worship. The Christian faith was born in homes, out in courtyards, and along roadsides. Meeting in homes was a conscious choice of the early Christians. Church buildings are not "God's house." Constantine brought into Christianity sacred objects and places, basing them on pagan shrines.

Christians revere the "Holy Land." But Jerusalem is no more sacred than any other place on earth. But the pagan influence is there is revering the place.

Church buildings model after pagan shrines and Roman basilica. There are elevated platforms to separate the "clergy" from the "laity." There is no such division in the Church that Christ started on earth, but is perpetuated in nearly every protestant denomination, including the SDAs. The Pulpit, the pews, the balcony, the steeple, colored glass, the incredibly high cost of maintaining the buildings, money that could be used to the furthering of the Gospel.

We could discuss the order of services of Sabbath or Sundays, there are very little difference and much of it comes from pagan ritual. The sacred cow of "the sermon." Not many get much out of sermons, even if presented well. Sermons make the listener passive participants, that is, they do not participate. How rude if one were to interrupt. Much about the sermon comes from pagan orators. "The Pastor" is often an obstacle to every member functioning in the church. And on and on and on...


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Using quotes from Ellen White [Re: APL] #187455
09/15/18 11:14 PM
09/15/18 11:14 PM
N
Nadi  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2020
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 288
Canada
I'm sorry, that did not convince me IN THE LEAST.


"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
Re: Using quotes from Ellen White [Re: Nadi] #187458
09/16/18 04:25 AM
09/16/18 04:25 AM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: Nadi
I'm sorry, that did not convince me IN THE LEAST.
Not my role to convince you. But try reading the book "Pagan Christianity" and all the references.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
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