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Re: Are we born "sinners?" [Re: APL] #187754
11/05/18 02:24 PM
11/05/18 02:24 PM
APL  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: james
Children must learn to love in much the same way as they learn to control their bodily functions. An adult is not someone who is 18 years old, but someone who has learned the practical value of moral strength, a strength that does not magically appear on the 18th birthday.
Is there any difference between children born after the fall of Adam and Eve and children that would have been born before their fall? Why are we born with DNA code (which is viral in origin) that predisposes us to addictions? Why are we born with DNA code that causes disease?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Are we born "sinners?" [Re: APL] #187758
11/05/18 09:24 PM
11/05/18 09:24 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Children must learn to love in much the same way as they learn to control their bodily functions. An adult is not someone who is 18 years old, but someone who has learned the practical value of moral strength, a strength that does not magically appear on the 18th birthday.
Is there any difference between children born after the fall of Adam and Eve and children that would have been born before their fall? Why are we born with DNA code (which is viral in origin) that predisposes us to addictions? Why are we born with DNA code that causes disease?

After God had created Adam and Eve, it is written, "Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was VERY GOOD" Gen. 1:31. Nevertheless, when that VERY GOOD first couple had sinned (even in their perfect state of being), God said to the man, "Cursed is the ground for your sake ..." (3:17)

It is obvious therefore that "Sin is the transgression of the law. It is not an issue derived from genetic material, but rather a conscious decision to do wrong and its concomitant action, a function of our psycho-social environment. We overcome sin by inculcating perfect love."

///
 

Re: Are we born "sinners?" [Re: APL] #187759
11/05/18 10:46 PM
11/05/18 10:46 PM
APL  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: james
It is obvious therefore that "Sin is the transgression of the law. It is not an issue derived from genetic material, but rather a conscious decision to do wrong and its concomitant action, a function of our psycho-social environment. We overcome sin by inculcating perfect love."
So animals also need to inculcate perfect love and their red in tooth-and-nail is a product of they psycho-social environment. Somehow, I don't think so.

YES - sin is transgression of the Law. And God's law is written by His own finger upon every nerve, every muscle, every faculty which has been entrusted to man. Where is it written? What is the writing medium used? I know...


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Are we born "sinners?" [Re: APL] #187761
11/06/18 01:40 AM
11/06/18 01:40 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
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Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: james
It is obvious therefore that "Sin is the transgression of the law. It is not an issue derived from genetic material, but rather a conscious decision to do wrong and its concomitant action, a function of our psycho-social environment. We overcome sin by inculcating perfect love."
So animals also need to inculcate perfect love and their red in tooth-and-nail is a product of they psycho-social environment. Somehow, I don't think so.

YES - sin is transgression of the Law. And God's law is written by His own finger upon every nerve, every muscle, every faculty which has been entrusted to man. Where is it written? What is the writing medium used? I know...

Animals do not sin, neither is their consciousness of right and wrong among them. They can be trained to act a certain way, and that they do very well; but grasping the high moral ground is not within them. After the flood, without vegetation about, some learned the taste for blood since they could not plant, reap nor cook. Some, the domesticated, thrived under man's provision. Each found his food as best he could.

And to man, God said, "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs." Gen. 9:3. Adam's choice resulted in the flood, ultimately. Therefore, as it is written, sin is the transgression of the law and has NO basis in genes. The consequence of sin however is immediately obvious in every broken system we endure, in which we live today.

///
 

Re: Are we born "sinners?" [Re: James Peterson] #187762
11/06/18 03:10 PM
11/06/18 03:10 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Animals do not sin, neither is their consciousness of right and wrong among them. They can be trained to act a certain way, and that they do very well; but grasping the high moral ground is not within them. After the flood, without vegetation about, some learned the taste for blood since they could not plant, reap nor cook. Some, the domesticated, thrived under man's provision. Each found his food as best he could.
This is a new thing to me!

Are you saying that animals did NOT eat one another until after the flood?

How do you explain the fossils with teeth embedded in one another's skeletons?

Re: Are we born "sinners?" [Re: APL] #187771
11/06/18 09:08 PM
11/06/18 09:08 PM
APL  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: james
Therefore, as it is written, sin is the transgression of the law and has NO basis in genes

What law? Define the law!! I know where the law that makes us individually is written, and guess what? It has been corrupted.

Is there any difference between children born after the fall of Adam and Eve and children that would have been born before their fall? Why are we born with DNA code (which is viral in origin) that predisposes us to addictions? Why are we born with DNA code that causes disease?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Are we born "sinners?" [Re: APL] #187772
11/07/18 03:11 AM
11/07/18 03:11 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: APL
Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Therefore, as it is written, sin is the transgression of the law and has NO basis in genes

What law? Define the law!! I know where the law that makes us individually is written, and guess what? It has been corrupted.

"It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." -- Jesus Christ. The word of God is found in the Bible and that has been well-preserved.

Originally Posted By: APL
Is there any difference between children born after the fall of Adam and Eve and children that would have been born before their fall? Why are we born with DNA code (which is viral in origin) that predisposes us to addictions? Why are we born with DNA code that causes disease?

It is written, sin is the transgression of the law; and has NO basis in genes. If the latter were not the case, then it would have been impossible for Adam, perfect from the day he was created, to sin. The consequence of his singular bad choice is immediately obvious in every broken system we endure, in which we live today; and in the past, the flood, ultimately.

///
 

Re: Are we born "sinners?" [Re: kland] #187773
11/07/18 03:18 AM
11/07/18 03:18 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Animals do not sin, neither is their consciousness of right and wrong among them. They can be trained to act a certain way, and that they do very well; but grasping the high moral ground is not within them. After the flood, without vegetation about, some learned the taste for blood since they could not plant, reap nor cook. Some, the domesticated, thrived under man's provision. Each found his food as best he could.
This is a new thing to me!

Are you saying that animals did NOT eat one another until after the flood?

How do you explain the fossils with teeth embedded in one another's skeletons?

Before the flood? It is likely that they "started" killing for food then, but not as widespread as after. The reason is they came from the Garden of Eden eating vegetation and that continued until the flood.

The reason I say likely however is because, the ground having been cursed immediately after the fall (vegetation dying out), the animals, the wild ones at least, were left to fend for themselves and would have had "reason" to prey upon the less fortunate.

///
 

Re: Are we born "sinners?" [Re: APL] #187774
11/07/18 04:51 AM
11/07/18 04:51 AM
APL  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
What does it mean, the ground was cursed. How?


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Are we born "sinners?" [Re: James Peterson] #187775
11/07/18 02:09 PM
11/07/18 02:09 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Animals do not sin, neither is their consciousness of right and wrong among them. They can be trained to act a certain way, and that they do very well; but grasping the high moral ground is not within them. After the flood, without vegetation about, some learned the taste for blood since they could not plant, reap nor cook. Some, the domesticated, thrived under man's provision. Each found his food as best he could.
This is a new thing to me!

Are you saying that animals did NOT eat one another until after the flood?

How do you explain the fossils with teeth embedded in one another's skeletons?

Before the flood? It is likely that they "started" killing for food then, but not as widespread as after. The reason is they came from the Garden of Eden eating vegetation and that continued until the flood.

The reason I say likely however is because, the ground having been cursed immediately after the fall (vegetation dying out), the animals, the wild ones at least, were left to fend for themselves and would have had "reason" to prey upon the less fortunate.

///
 
Why do you need to hedge with, likely? Again,
How do you explain the fossils with teeth embedded in one another's skeletons?

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