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Re: God is wrapping it up! [Re: Nadi] #188173
01/02/19 03:32 AM
01/02/19 03:32 AM
dedication  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Nadi

Perhaps consider an alternative view that there does not exist a "probation," as neither this word nor concept is to be found in Scripture.


Probationary time -- is a privilege given to the human race at great cost -- it was purchased for us by Christ on the cross.

Without the cross their would be no probationary time -- the end of all would be death, we would have no choice for we have all sinned and the wages of sin is death.

But we have been offered LIFE!!!!
Will we accept it
or will we reject it?

The word "probation" may not be in scripture, but you will find the urgent call to forsake sin and accept Christ and the life He offers, all through scripture.

Now, today, that offer is still extended to all living human beings.

Re: God is wrapping it up! [Re: Nadi] #188174
01/02/19 03:12 PM
01/02/19 03:12 PM
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kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Nadi
Originally Posted By: kland
Originally Posted By: dedication
To say people have already been judged and sealed some years back, is to say probation is over.
It is not.
Just commenting on that statement, probation IS indeed over for some people. They are DEAD. And forever sealed, one way or the other.

Perhaps consider an alternative view that there does not exist a "probation," as neither this word nor concept is to be found in Scripture.

Re 22:11 "He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still."

If that is not talking about probation, could you tell us what that is talking about?

Re 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
Re 22:15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

Re: God is wrapping it up! [Re: dedication] #188175
01/02/19 03:16 PM
01/02/19 03:16 PM
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kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: dedication
When I think about it -- in my lifetime there must have been maybe 100 failed predictions by people thinking they know the times and dates of the work of God.

The first one I remember was 1964 (you know 120 years since 1844, "as in the days of Noah")
Either you must be older than I or I must have been sheltered!

Quote:
Every time Halley’s Comet comes around,
Though I've seen plenty, but not 100 of them. I recall someone passing around tapes about how the author said "god" showed her California was going drop off into the ocean. Some many decades ago.

But probation has ended for many of them...

Re: God is wrapping it up! [Re: His child] #188176
01/02/19 03:22 PM
01/02/19 03:22 PM
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kland  Offline
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From Monday's lesson:

Revelation’s end-time prophecies are not revealed to satisfy our obsessive curiosity about the future. The book reveals only those aspects of the future important for us to know. They are disclosed to impress upon us the seriousness of what will happen so that we will realize our dependence on God and, in that dependence, obey Him.

For centuries, speculation - and even more sensationalism - has accompanied so much of the teaching regarding end-time events. Fortunes have been made by those who, predicting the immediate end, have scared people into giving money to their ministry because, well, the end was near. Each time, though, the end didn’t come, and people were left disillusioned and discouraged. As with all the good things God has given us, prophecy can be misused, and misinterpreted, as well.

Hmmm....

Re: God is wrapping it up! [Re: kland] #188177
01/02/19 06:34 PM
01/02/19 06:34 PM
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Nadi  Offline
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Originally Posted By: kland
If that is not talking about probation, could you tell us what that is talking about?

No, I can't.

I can, however, tell you how I understand it.

In the context of the entire phrase, the angel is telling John:

1. Not to seal up the prophecy (unlike Daniel) because the time is short. (This is an entirely different discussion)

2. Those who "do wrong," "are vile," "do right," "are holy" will and can continue to do what they are doing. It does not indicate that they MUST continue, only that they WILL. There is no suggestion of any probation or close of same, nor that they no longer have a choice to change. This is more analogous to "everyone carries on doing what they are doing," somewhat like Matthew 24: 37-39, where everyone was doing what they were doing until the flood came.

Re: God is wrapping it up! [Re: kland] #188178
01/03/19 07:22 AM
01/03/19 07:22 AM
dedication  Offline
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Originally Posted By: kland


Originally Posted By: dedication
The first one I remember was 1964 (you know 120 years since 1844, "as in the days of Noah")
Either you must be older than I or I must have been sheltered!

Though I've seen plenty, but not 100 of them.

I don't know where you were in 1964, but I was just entering my teens, and for my friends and I it was kind of scary -- we thought we would never have a chance to grow up and marry and have children, as we were told there would be none of that in heaven. Silly of us.
But the signs that were generating the idea 1964 could be the end, were
-- the USA had it's first Catholic president, the cold war was intense, Russia and the USA were having a nuclear arms race making enough weapons to annihilate the whole world many times over, everyone was sure the Russians would send Nuclear bombs on us and the world would be a terrible place -- a time of trouble as never was. Then the Cuban Missile Crisis had the world on the edge of another World War as the United States and USSR came close to launching nuclear attacks.

So yes, that was my first introduction of people date setting for the end of the world. Though no one set an actual date -- yet there were implications of something coming in the fall of 1964 (120 years after 1844 date)

It would be interesting to make a list of all the dates presented for "the world to end" -- it may be surprising how many there have been.

And yes, for a great many people that were alive in 1964, probation has ended -- for nearly the whole generation of people who were the active, middle aged adults, teachers, preachers, parents, employers, etc back then, only a few are left. And even some of the younger ones are no longer alive.

It only goes to show -- that we shouldn't be waiting for some extra ordinary finality of earth's history to arouse us to prepare spiritually, just to slump down into complacency once the speculated date passes, but rather it is to be a daily preparation, a daily commitment to the Lord, not based on stimulated excitement, but a steady seeking after God's will every day, and a continuous walk with Christ.

Re: God is wrapping it up! [Re: Nadi] #188181
01/04/19 10:15 PM
01/04/19 10:15 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Nadi

2. Those who "do wrong," "are vile," "do right," "are holy" will and can continue to do what they are doing. It does not indicate that they MUST continue, only that they WILL. There is no suggestion of any probation or close of same, nor that they no longer have a choice to change. This is more analogous to "everyone carries on doing what they are doing," somewhat like Matthew 24: 37-39, where everyone was doing what they were doing until the flood came.

The first part of Revelation seems to reference the sanctuary. Was there a "probation" time during the Jewish year of the sanctuary service?

Re: God is wrapping it up! [Re: dedication] #188182
01/04/19 11:55 PM
01/04/19 11:55 PM
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Charity  Offline
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Originally Posted By: dedication
Just like the parable of the boy who kept crying "wolf" soon nobody listened, and when the wolf actually came no one was ready for him.


The problem with the people who panicked when there was no wolf is that they didn't test everything with scripture, especially their own lives. There is going to be a midnight cry and it will not be a "wolf" cry, it will swell to a "loud cry".

Some here use Gate's willingness to examine what others are saying like Ernie Knowles, as a strike against him. It should be viewed as a virtue to listen to what others are saying and test it with scripture. Gates did that but didn't see the error at first. But it wasn't long before the Lord corrected him. God is more please with those who are willing to test what others are saying than with those who are content with what they already know.

For example, the Lord has been speaking for the last 160 plus years to the church that we don't understand the books of Daniel and Revelation as we should, that they do indeed apply preeminently to the end. How many will be able to be sanctified in the truth contained in them if they remain in willful ignorance or denial until the seven trumpets sound when there's no denying it. Not that I've been sanctified in it myself but forgetting those things that are behind I press on toward the mark.

Re: God is wrapping it up! [Re: kland] #188183
01/05/19 12:23 AM
01/05/19 12:23 AM
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Nadi  Offline
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Posts: 288
Canada
Originally Posted By: kland
The first part of Revelation seems to reference the sanctuary. Was there a "probation" time during the Jewish year of the sanctuary service?

I don't think there ever was such a thing as "probation," unless the term is being used in a specialized way. In which case one would need to clarify their use of the term.

In the "Are we at the close of probation?" thread, starting at about page 4 and going to about 9, I discuss some of my views of probation. Also in the "What do we take to heaven" thread but I'm not sure where.

While I agree that at death there is no more opportunity to make any choices, I think the opportunity to choose Jesus will remain open until His actual appearing in the heavens. It doesn't "close" at the time of trouble, or the Sunday law, or "after the mark of the beast is implemented," or any other such arbitrary event.

The term "probation" indicates a time period where one proves commitment, or ability, or some other such skill or characteristic. One is "on probation" at a new job, or in a club or society they have just joined. A criminal has a "probation officer" and they are "on probation" to help them get back into society.
Salvation, however, is not contingent on our ability or skill, but on God's grace. We do not need to "prove" anything to anyone because God knows all things, and he is the one making the judgement. (This also rules out the Investigative Judgment doctrine which, IMO, is also unsupported by Scripture) Our entire obligation is to Accept Jesus, and it is then God's responsibility to do the rest. (And this is not a discussion of the Christian life and growth.)


"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
Re: God is wrapping it up! [Re: His child] #188189
01/05/19 03:12 AM
01/05/19 03:12 AM
dedication  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Charity
For example, the Lord has been speaking for the last 160 plus years to the church that we don't understand the books of Daniel and Revelation as we should, that they do indeed apply preeminently to the end. How many will be able to be sanctified in the truth contained in them if they remain in willful ignorance


That may very well be true.
Yet, as long as people are looking primarily for identification of time and events they will not gain any deeper understanding of the sanctifying truth in these books.

Page 2 of 18 1 2 3 4 17 18

Moderator  dedication 

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