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Steve Wohlberg predicts possible church division, offers ebook to help address issues #188280
01/19/19 01:30 AM
01/19/19 01:30 AM
C
Charity  Offline OP
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Steve Wohlberg released this short video about an hour ago.


Re: Steve Wohlberg predicts possible church division, offers ebook to help address issues [Re: Charity] #188360
01/28/19 11:17 AM
01/28/19 11:17 AM
Rick H  Offline
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Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Charity
Steve Wohlberg released this short video about an hour ago.



I guess a church for the separation of the tares from the wheat..

Re: Steve Wohlberg predicts possible church division, offers ebook to help address issues [Re: Rick H] #188381
01/29/19 11:29 AM
01/29/19 11:29 AM
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Charity  Offline OP
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Quote:
I guess a church for the separation of the tares from the wheat..
Right. We're seeing The Shaking vision in Early Writings starting at page 269 being fulfilled.

Re: Steve Wohlberg predicts possible church division, offers ebook to help address issues [Re: Charity] #188385
01/29/19 03:23 PM
01/29/19 03:23 PM
APL  Offline
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Is it a shaking out or a forcing out? Many are working on forcing people out. That is not God's plan.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Steve Wohlberg predicts possible church division, offers ebook to help address issues [Re: Charity] #188387
01/29/19 04:05 PM
01/29/19 04:05 PM
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kland  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Charity
Quote:
I guess a church for the separation of the tares from the wheat..
Right. We're seeing The Shaking vision in Early Writings starting at page 269 being fulfilled.

Why this desire to see disaster?

Re: Steve Wohlberg predicts possible church division, offers ebook to help address issues [Re: Charity] #188419
02/02/19 06:01 AM
02/02/19 06:01 AM
dedication  Online Content
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Originally Posted By: Charity
Quote:
I guess a church for the separation of the tares from the wheat..
Right. We're seeing The Shaking vision in Early Writings starting at page 269 being fulfilled.


Somehow, I sense that the whole WO issues are a counterfeit "shaking" -- a smoke screen to hide the REAL issues pertaining to salvation and the ability to stand in the last days.


Let's look at Early Writings starting at page 269

The Shaking


Originally Posted By: EW
I saw some, with strong faith and agonizing cries, pleading with God. Their countenances were pale and marked with deep anxiety, expressive of their internal struggle. Firmness and great earnestness was expressed in their countenances; large drops of perspiration fell from their foreheads. Now and then their faces would light up with the marks of God's approbation, and again the same solemn, earnest, anxious look would settle upon them. {EW 269.1}

Question -- what is the struggle?
Internal struggle
A great longing for God's approbation
Originally Posted By: EW
Evil angels crowded around, pressing darkness upon them to shut out Jesus from their view, that their eyes might be drawn to the darkness that surrounded them, and thus they be led to distrust God and murmur against Him. Their only safety was in keeping their eyes directed upward.

Seems our FOCUS is the important element.
Where must the FOCUS be?
The evil angels are generating a lot of darkness in order to shut out Jesus from the people's thinking.
Where is the ONLY safety?
Originally Posted By: EW
Angels of God had charge over His people, and as the poisonous atmosphere of evil angels was pressed around these anxious ones, the
heavenly angels were continually wafting their wings over them to scatter the thick darkness. {EW 269.2}

What is this "poisonous atmosphere"?
I believe it is the saturation of sin in our whole society. We live in a world that has embraced an autonomous morality (no moral right or wrong, everyone sets own standards) The only problem is an autonomous morality refuses to give anyone the right to embrace Biblical morality, and insists that immorality be embraced as good.
Everywhere the darkness is present, in the work place, the media, the music and newsstands that stare in our faces as we shop, the new laws --and the basic carnal nature that kind of likes an autonomous morality instead of God's righteous laws.

How do we respond -- do we focus on Christ and plead and agonize with Him to make and keep us clean, to represent Him, or do we slide along with the current, half in half out?

Originally Posted By: EW
As the praying ones continued their earnest cries, at times a ray of light from Jesus came to them, to encourage their hearts and light up their countenances.

Don't give up praying and pleading -- even if it seems the struggles are too powerful -- claim His promises "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. Phil. 1:6 He is able -- "Though your sins be as scarlet He can make them white as snow" washed in the blood shed at Calvary, "If we confess our sins, He will forgive and cleanse us from all unrighteousness" 1 John 1:9
Originally Posted By: EW
Some, I saw, did not participate in this work of agonizing and pleading. They seemed indifferent and careless. They were not resisting the darkness around them, and it shut them in like a thick cloud.

What is shutting them in and obstructing their access to Christ?
Giving in to the darkness around them,
Not praying and pleading for victory?
Originally Posted By: EW
The angels of God left these and went to the aid of the earnest, praying ones. I saw angels of God hasten to the assistance of all who were struggling with all their power to resist the evil angels and trying to help themselves by calling upon God with perseverance. But His angels left those who made no effort to help themselves, and I lost sight of them. {EW 270.1}

God's angels are here to help us!
They can surround us shutting out the darkness of the evil angels if we just earnestly ask for this help!

"Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your] hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up." James 4:8-10
Originally Posted By: EW
I asked the meaning of the shaking I had seen and was shown that it would be caused by the straight testimony called forth by the counsel of the True Witness to the Laodiceans. This will have its effect upon the heart of the receiver, and will lead him to exalt the standard and pour forth the straight truth.

What is the counsel to the Laodiceans?
* Complacency -- thinking their condition is just fine
* Ignorance -- ignorant that they are lacking the robe of Christ's righteousness, content to be clothed with their own righteousness which doesn't cover them. Ignorance of their lack of faith in what Christ can and will do in their lives if only they are willing and co-operative. Ignorance that intellectual theological knowledge without constant dependence upon Christ and the Holy Spirit is still blindness.
*The urgent Call -- open your heart's door and let Christ fully into your life.


Originally Posted By: EW
Some will not bear this straight testimony. They will rise up against it, and this is what will cause a shaking among God's people. {EW 270.2}

Question --
Is it possible, like the Jewish nation, to depend on our rituals, works, and belief system as the "straight testimony" and not come in fullness of heart to the author and finisher of our salvation?
They rose up against the "testimony of Jesus" Who is the "true Witness".
Originally Posted By: EW
I saw that the testimony of the True Witness has not been half heeded. The solemn testimony upon which the destiny of the church hangs has been lightly esteemed, if not entirely disregarded. This testimony must work deep repentance; all who truly receive it will obey it and be purified. {EW 270.3}


Again notice --
Christ is the "True Witness"
When the message "Righteousness by Faith in Christ" was given in 1888, the "latter rain" was about to fall, BUT it didn't -- why? So many rejected the testimony of the "True Witness" and rose up against it.

No -- the shaking isn't about WO at all.
It's about a people fully letting Christ into their lives and being filled with the righteousness of Christ!
This will bring deep repentance and purification on an individual level -- which will be manifested in the church.

Originally Posted By: EW
Said the angel, "List ye!" Soon I heard a voice like many musical instruments all sounding in perfect strains, sweet and harmonious. It surpassed any music I had ever heard, seeming to be full of mercy, compassion, and elevating, holy joy. It thrilled through
my whole being. Said the angel, "Look ye!" My attention was then turned to the company I had seen, who were mightily shaken. I was shown those whom I had before seen weeping and praying in agony of spirit. The company of guardian angels around them had been doubled, and they were clothed with an armor from their head to their feet.


This is what we long for --
And this is what we are to agonize and pray for --

Originally Posted By: EW
They moved in exact order, like a company of soldiers. Their countenances expressed the severe conflict which they had endured, the agonizing struggle they had passed through. Yet their features, marked with severe internal anguish, now shone with the light and glory of heaven. They had obtained the victory, and it called forth from them the deepest gratitude and holy, sacred joy. {EW 270.4}


There is joy in the Lord -- and victory!
Originally Posted By: EW
The numbers of this company had lessened. Some had been shaken out and left by the way. The careless and indifferent, who did not join with those who prized victory and salvation enough to perseveringly plead and agonize for it, did not obtain it, and they were left behind in darkness, and their places were immediately filled by others taking hold of the truth and coming into the ranks. Evil angels still pressed around them, but could have no power over them. {EW 271.1}


The shaking has nothing to do with WO. Women as well as men and youth, will be part of that victorious company going forth in a united voice, to proclaim the loud cry.
The issue is "prize victory and salvation enough to perseveringly plead and agonize for it" knowing it is only through Christ and with Christ that it can be given.

Re: Steve Wohlberg predicts possible church division, offers ebook to help address issues [Re: dedication] #188434
02/06/19 12:13 PM
02/06/19 12:13 PM
C
Charity  Offline OP
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Posts: 4,583
USA
Originally Posted By: dedication

The shaking has nothing to do with WO.

You're a case in point Dedication of the consequences of failing to follow biblical roles. God's directive that men ought to be leaders in spiritual things should have protected you from a position that has been harmful to yourself and others. As a result you're now at a point where you don't see that to ordain women as spiritual leaders is to repudiate the word. Thank God there are men of wisdom and discernment like Steve Wohlberg who see this and are giving the trumpet a certain sound. Be careful that you don't find yourself to be undermining the Lord's messengers.

Maritime is at a point where it holds up those teaching error as featured members. It's one thing to allow for freedom of speech and it's another to endorse and condone error. Maritime has lost that balance and one of the root causes is your leadership and Daryl's decision to not follow scripture on this point.

Quote:
Those who love God with all the heart, and their neighbor as themselves, will be the only ones who will stand the test of the decree. {ST, June 2, 1890 par. 5}

The above quote is true. Christ also said: "If ye love me keep my commandments." Love and obedience are two sides of the same golden coin.

Re: Steve Wohlberg predicts possible church division, offers ebook to help address issues [Re: Charity] #188435
02/06/19 02:51 PM
02/06/19 02:51 PM
APL  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted By: mark
You're a case in point Dedication of the consequences of failing to follow biblical roles. God's directive that men ought to be leaders in spiritual things should have protected you from a position that has been harmful to yourself and others. As a result you're now at a point where you don't see that to ordain women as spiritual leaders is to repudiate the word. Thank God there are men of wisdom and discernment like Steve Wohlberg who see this and are giving the trumpet a certain sound. Be careful that you don't find yourself to be undermining the Lord's messengers.
As with Revelation 6, don't trust everyone who rides a White Horse.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Steve Wohlberg predicts possible church division, offers ebook to help address issues [Re: Charity] #188436
02/06/19 04:41 PM
02/06/19 04:41 PM
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Nadi  Offline
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Active Member 2020
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 288
Canada
Originally Posted By: Charity
You're a case in point Dedication of the consequences of failing to follow biblical roles. God's directive that men ought to be leaders in spiritual things should have protected you from a position that has been harmful to yourself and others. As a result you're now at a point where you don't see that to ordain women as spiritual leaders is to repudiate the word. Thank God there are men of wisdom and discernment like Steve Wohlberg who see this and are giving the trumpet a certain sound. Be careful that you don't find yourself to be undermining the Lord's messengers.

Maritime is at a point where it holds up those teaching error as featured members. It's one thing to allow for freedom of speech and it's another to endorse and condone error. Maritime has lost that balance and one of the root causes is your leadership and Daryl's decision to not follow scripture on this point.

Quote:
Those who love God with all the heart, and their neighbor as themselves, will be the only ones who will stand the test of the decree. {ST, June 2, 1890 par. 5}

The above quote is true. Christ also said: "If ye love me keep my commandments." Love and obedience are two sides of the same golden coin.

Though I have no love for dedication, I have even less for "men" so called who use Scripture and *****STAFF EDIT***** "God's directive" to perpetuate the abuse of women and protect their own power structures, all the while being themselves LED BY A WOMAN. If you follow the councils of Ellen White, you are being led by a woman. Period. The hypocrisy is off the charts.

Yes, dedication, like the rest of us, has glaring errors. None of which are unique to either her or females generally. ALL are found in every "male" pastor, conference administrator, Union official, General Conference Vice-President and anyone else holding the artificial man-made titles we fall down and worship. Unfortunately, when it really matters, when the chips are down and the church needs "...men—men who will not be bought or sold, men who in their inmost souls are true and honest, men who do not fear to call sin by its right name, men whose conscience is as true to duty as the needle to the pole, men who will stand for the right though the heavens fall." it is precisely then that there cannot be found a single testicle of even the smallest imagination amongst the entire collective. (And yes that quote is from Ellen White.)

Maybe, just maybe, if these "men" understood Scripture as well as they understand politics the church would not now be in THIS position.

So go ahead, present your point of view. But refrain from condemning another poster just because she is a woman or she doesn't agree with YOUR point of view. You ain't the last word in Scriptural exegesis. For you, Ellen White is.

OH WAIT!!! SHE'S A WOMAN!

PS: dedication. No, this doesn't make us friends.[color:#FF0000][/color]

Last edited by Daryl; 02/08/19 04:22 PM. Reason: Staff Edit to remove inappropriate content.

"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
Re: Steve Wohlberg predicts possible church division, offers ebook to help address issues [Re: Charity] #188440
02/08/19 04:33 PM
02/08/19 04:33 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,121
Nova Scotia, Canada
Originally Posted By: Charity
Originally Posted By: dedication

The shaking has nothing to do with WO.


Maritime is at a point where it holds up those teaching error as featured members. It's one thing to allow for freedom of speech and it's another to endorse and condone error. Maritime has lost that balance and one of the root causes is your leadership and Daryl's decision to not follow scripture on this point.

Maritime allows discussion on both sides of this issue, even though I don't believe that WO is biblical.

As far as the choice of featured members goes, that is randomly chosen by the forum software and has nothing to do with what is being posted.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

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