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What is and what is not Christian/ Sacred music? #188758
03/16/19 11:28 AM
03/16/19 11:28 AM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,113
Florida, USA
It is hard see how 'Stairway to Heaven' or the songs of 'Black Sabbath' are not considered 'Christian' by the definition that is used for rock music appropriate for church nowadays. We had a young lady sing from 'Jesus Christ, Superstar' at church and we had "Sympathy for the Devil" at the youth Seventh-day Adventist Florida Camp Meeting at Kulaqua.

Are the words what make it 'sacred' or is the music and how it speaks to your senses important. We knew what we were doing when we sung those songs and if we had to change a word or two to get it by the church, it was no problem. We now understand whose words and work we were doing, but it seems the same problem is happening today, and these songs are now being called 'Christian rock' with just a few changes to the lyrics and adding the word God or Jesus, claiming that makes them appropriate. But are they...

Re: What is and what is not Christian/ Sacred music? [Re: Rick H] #188759
03/16/19 12:27 PM
03/16/19 12:27 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
"Stairway to Heaven" is one of the songs I learned about in school when the teacher taught us about backmasking. We took several rock songs on tape, manually unscrewed the cassette case and flipped the tape rolls upside down to reverse the music on them, put it back together and played it. With the "Stairway to Heaven," we could hear full sentences in the backmasking. Internet sites now contain those words.

Here's one rendition:
Quote:
Stairway to Heaven - backwards full lyrics

Hear why its sung here, oppositioner..
Allll on track, all arriving
They all sing, and they are one.
Shall I loathe you now, parishoner?
Oh hear Him, Christian within me.
It stirs my sin; the river,
Oh, she swells with our lousiness.
All my life will end for him?
We’re all out of signs,
I know I’m sorta shocked
To hear The Lord,
My God now will save me!
Oh I will n’er be saved,
Because I live with Satan..
One wish today;
That you’ll all pray for
Three who will make it here late.
Pray now and you’ll see..
The ‘Lord’ turned me on,
But, oh, I was the shaggy fool..
Clothed in agony,
Lost at a height.
There’s no escaping it,
Nor his woes..
So here’s to my Sweet Satan.
The one who’s little path
Would make me sad,
Whose power is satan.
He’ll give you 666.
there was a little toolshed,
where he made
us suffer sad Satan.
Ohohohoh...
“Family won’t get loose,
They’re offered me”
Always soothes the worker.
Always will be as we know now
“I see ruins,” said he,
“the world they offered me?
Who wished the Lord’s fall”
If we lose feather,
Say you’ll save me!

And no wimps can bend the rules..
And no wimps can do..

Hunt next to the shore,
‘Cause they see all from there,
See here’s the news,
Who walks with mute grief!
Perhaps no-one found thee...
“Heavy, lift me out,”
Spake the Reve,
“Someday, failed, we’ll lose one line-up,
They’ve gotta leave forsaken”

And no wimps can do..
And no wimps can do...

He, who say the lords
Thoth have our laws,
Maat must be superb. Mass is ended..
Over there,
He who should learn thee.
Any moot that serves by my sworn music,
I wish it with snow be shushed, All for my mass’s sake.
Hear why its sung,
here, oppositioner, Ohh..
He who should show
May make his show worthy,
To look, for us, odd.. sickly,
There’s one chance - take his show.
Hold thy head,
Hear why its sung here. oppositioner.
Who owns this earth built below?
Oh sweet Israel…


Only the devil would be intelligent enough in our times to be able to engineer/compose an entire, lengthy song in both the forward and reverse directions. It is far, far, far from "Christian."

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: What is and what is not Christian/ Sacred music? [Re: Green Cochoa] #188766
03/17/19 05:51 AM
03/17/19 05:51 AM
N
Nadi  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2020
Full Member
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 288
Canada
I'm a bit sceptical of the whole backmasking thing. I think Styx guitarist James Young put it in the right perspective when he said "If we want to make a statement, we'll do it in a way that people can understand us and not in a way where you have to go out and buy a $400 tape player to understand us."

JMO


"Our vision is often more obstructed by what we think we know than by our lack of knowledge." K. Stendahl
Re: What is and what is not Christian/ Sacred music? [Re: Rick H] #188786
03/18/19 10:25 AM
03/18/19 10:25 AM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
I'd tend to agree with Nadi. People listen to music with straight out satanic words and see no problem with it. So why need to disguise it?

Re: What is and what is not Christian/ Sacred music? [Re: Green Cochoa] #188831
03/20/19 01:46 AM
03/20/19 01:46 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
"Stairway to Heaven" is one of the songs I learned about in school when the teacher taught us about backmasking. We took several rock songs on tape, manually unscrewed the cassette case and flipped the tape rolls upside down to reverse the music on them, put it back together and played it. With the "Stairway to Heaven," we could hear full sentences in the backmasking. Internet sites now contain those words.

Here's one rendition:
Quote:
Stairway to Heaven - backwards full lyrics

Hear why its sung here, oppositioner..
Allll on track, all arriving
They all sing, and they are one.
Shall I loathe you now, parishoner?
Oh hear Him, Christian within me.
It stirs my sin; the river,
Oh, she swells with our lousiness.
All my life will end for him?
We’re all out of signs,
I know I’m sorta shocked
To hear The Lord,
My God now will save me!
Oh I will n’er be saved,
Because I live with Satan..
One wish today;
That you’ll all pray for
Three who will make it here late.
Pray now and you’ll see..
The ‘Lord’ turned me on,
But, oh, I was the shaggy fool..
Clothed in agony,
Lost at a height.
There’s no escaping it,
Nor his woes..
So here’s to my Sweet Satan.
The one who’s little path
Would make me sad,
Whose power is satan.
He’ll give you 666.
there was a little toolshed,
where he made
us suffer sad Satan.
Ohohohoh...
“Family won’t get loose,
They’re offered me”
Always soothes the worker.
Always will be as we know now
“I see ruins,” said he,
“the world they offered me?
Who wished the Lord’s fall”
If we lose feather,
Say you’ll save me!

And no wimps can bend the rules..
And no wimps can do..

Hunt next to the shore,
‘Cause they see all from there,
See here’s the news,
Who walks with mute grief!
Perhaps no-one found thee...
“Heavy, lift me out,”
Spake the Reve,
“Someday, failed, we’ll lose one line-up,
They’ve gotta leave forsaken”

And no wimps can do..
And no wimps can do...

He, who say the lords
Thoth have our laws,
Maat must be superb. Mass is ended..
Over there,
He who should learn thee.
Any moot that serves by my sworn music,
I wish it with snow be shushed, All for my mass’s sake.
Hear why its sung,
here, oppositioner, Ohh..
He who should show
May make his show worthy,
To look, for us, odd.. sickly,
There’s one chance - take his show.
Hold thy head,
Hear why its sung here. oppositioner.
Who owns this earth built below?
Oh sweet Israel…


Only the devil would be intelligent enough in our times to be able to engineer/compose an entire, lengthy song in both the forward and reverse directions. It is far, far, far from "Christian."

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

It's a case of the Rorschach test in audio: you say what you hear, but what you say reflects what is inside you already. The song is not putting anything into you; rather, you are putting yourself into the song. You yourself admitted as much by saying, "Here's one rendition ..."

How many renditions are there? And just suppose a true Christian, whose mind is on God and knows only heavenly things, were to listen, what would he hear? Here is one rendition:

"Praise be to God,
The Father of my being
He created me from inception
And in his hand my life is hid ...
"

Just the opening alone, and look how different the lyrics. What do you hear, Green? What is in your heart?

///

Re: What is and what is not Christian/ Sacred music? [Re: James Peterson] #188832
03/20/19 05:27 AM
03/20/19 05:27 AM
T
The Wanderer  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: James Peterson
[quote=Green Cochoa]"Stairway to Heaven" is one of the songs I learned about in school when the teacher taught us about backmasking. We took several rock songs on tape, manually unscrewed the cassette case and flipped the tape rolls upside down to reverse the music on them, put it back together and played it. With the "Stairway to Heaven," we could hear full sentences in the backmasking. Internet sites now contain those words.
I am not an expert on the subject, but there is information out in internet land about it:
Quote:
Backmasking
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Backmasking is a recording technique in which a sound or message is recorded backward onto a track that is meant to be played forward. Backmasking is a deliberate process, whereas a message found through phonetic reversal may be unintentional.

Backmasking was popularised by The Beatles, who used backward instrumentation on their 1966 album Revolver.[1] Artists have since used backmasking for artistic, comedic and satiric effect, on both analogue and digital recordings. The technique has also been used to censor words or phrases for "clean" releases of explicit songs.

In 1969, rumors of a backmasked message in the Beatles song "Revolution 9" sparked the Paul is dead urban legend.[2] In the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s, Christian groups in the United States alleged that backmasking was being used by prominent rock musicians for Satanic purposes, leading to record-burning protests and proposed anti-backmasking legislation by state and federal governments.[3]

Many popular musicians have since been accused of including backmasked messages in their music. However, apparent backmasked messages may in fact be examples of pareidolia - the brain's tendency to recognize patterns in meaningless data - or coincidental phonetic reversal.[2] READ MORE

I am not sure that "backward masking" of rock music would be a problem for true Christians. Most Christians do not, or should not even listen to it? Perhaps it has been done for some hymns that we listen to? I dont know how we would figure it out; except to choose wisely what we subject ourselves to.


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: What is and what is not Christian/ Sacred music? [Re: Rick H] #188836
03/20/19 10:46 AM
03/20/19 10:46 AM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,425
Midland
"the brain's tendency to recognize patterns in meaningless data"

Yep.

Re: What is and what is not Christian/ Sacred music? [Re: Rick H] #188847
03/21/19 10:43 PM
03/21/19 10:43 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Satan is intelligent. He knows the human mind is capable of absorbing messages it was not aware it had even received. These are sometimes called "subliminal messages." One such case of known subliminal messages being effective in reaching minds was proved early on in the movie theater industry. A single-frame ad saying something like "Eat more popcorn!" was placed in the film roll that played to the audience in the theater. Without being conscious of having seen that ad, which ran for only a 30th of a second, many people got up and bought more popcorn. When this effect was proven to increase popcorn sales, the government stepped in and made such advertising illegal, saying, in effect, that a viewer should have the opportunity to make a conscious decision based on a known stimulus.

Unlike the government, which had a sense of fairness, Satan has no interest in being fair. He is happy to use any form of persuasion to get minds to his side.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: What is and what is not Christian/ Sacred music? [Re: Green Cochoa] #188848
03/22/19 03:44 AM
03/22/19 03:44 AM
T
The Wanderer  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 545
Central Alberta
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Satan is intelligent. He knows the human mind is capable of absorbing messages it was not aware it had even received. These are sometimes called "subliminal messages." One such case of known subliminal messages being effective in reaching minds was proved early on in the movie theater industry. A single-frame ad saying something like "Eat more popcorn!" was placed in the film roll that played to the audience in the theater. Without being conscious of having seen that ad, which ran for only a 30th of a second, many people got up and bought more popcorn. When this effect was proven to increase popcorn sales, the government stepped in and made such advertising illegal, saying, in effect, that a viewer should have the opportunity to make a conscious decision based on a known stimulus.

Unlike the government, which had a sense of fairness, Satan has no interest in being fair. He is happy to use any form of persuasion to get minds to his side.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

Quote:
Ceremony and Display.--Form and ceremony do not constitute the kingdom of God. Ceremonies become multitudinous and extravagant as the vital principles of the kingdom of God are lost. But it is not form and ceremony that Christ requires. He hungers to receive from His vineyard fruit in holiness and unselfishness, deeds of goodness, mercy, and truth. {Ev 511.2}
Quote:
Gorgeous apparel, fine singing, and instrumental music in the church do not call forth the songs of the angel choir. In the sight of God these things are like the branches of the unfruitful fig tree which bore nothing but pretentious leaves. Christ looks for fruit, for principles of goodness and sympathy and love. These are the principles of heaven, and when they are revealed in the lives of human beings, we may know that Christ is formed within, the hope and glory. A congregation may be the poorest in the land, without music or outward show, but if it possesses these principles, the members can sing, for the joy of Christ is in their souls, and this they can offer as a sweet oblation to God.--Manuscript 123, 1899. {Ev 511.3}
Quote:

Music Acceptable to God.--The superfluities which have been brought into the worship in _____ must be strenuously avoided. . . . Music is acceptable to God only when the heart is sanctified and made soft and holy by its facilities. But many who delight in music know nothing of making melody in their hearts to the Lord. Their heart is gone "after their idols." --Letter 198, 1899. {Ev 512.1}
Quote:

A Misuse of Music.--When professing Christians reach the high standard which it is their privilege to reach, the simplicity of Christ will be maintained in all their worship. Forms and ceremonies and musical accomplishments are not the strength of the church. Yet these things have taken the place that God should have, even as they did in the worship of the Jews. {Ev 512.2}


"The worst foes of my spiritual life have never been hostile circumstance."

"There is always a little bit of light" (Micah 7:8)
https://www.lightintheclouds.net/word

Sincerely, IN Christ; and THROUGH The Spirit


- The Wanderer
Re: What is and what is not Christian/ Sacred music? [Re: Green Cochoa] #188853
03/22/19 07:23 PM
03/22/19 07:23 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa
Satan is intelligent. He knows the human mind is capable of absorbing messages it was not aware it had even received. These are sometimes called "subliminal messages." One such case of known subliminal messages being effective in reaching minds was proved early on in the movie theater industry. A single-frame ad saying something like "Eat more popcorn!" was placed in the film roll that played to the audience in the theater. Without being conscious of having seen that ad, which ran for only a 30th of a second, many people got up and bought more popcorn. When this effect was proven to increase popcorn sales, the government stepped in and made such advertising illegal, saying, in effect, that a viewer should have the opportunity to make a conscious decision based on a known stimulus.

Unlike the government, which had a sense of fairness, Satan has no interest in being fair. He is happy to use any form of persuasion to get minds to his side.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

So they suddenly went out and bought more popcorn, huh? LOL

Why then don't people go to church in droves given the ubiquity of buildings dedicated to worshiping God? The buildings stand as silent subliminal messaging, don't they? Unobtrusive but always there in the corner of the eye everywhere. Surely every mention of Jesus in passing or any Bible in the peripheral field of view -- on a table, shelf, on TV -- is subliminal messaging. Yet, society seems to be heading in the opposite direction.

Subliminal messaging is an urban legend, a conspiracy to keep people in dread and fear of the unknown: don't look, don't eat, don't drink, don't taste, don't go, don't stay, don't ask, don't tell.

Mark 16:17-18

///

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