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Re: Apostasy of a most startling nature.... [Re: ProdigalOne] #189604
05/29/19 06:03 AM
05/29/19 06:03 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
Are you attempting to justify hiding in the shadows, by saying that Jesus did not have a denomination, and there will be no denominations in heaven? Your straw man argument is obvious: I never claimed that Jesus belonged to a denomination or that they would exist in heaven. Your words, not mine.

The fact is that what differentiates denominations is their doctrines. And God’s Word is filled with doctrine. "I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law." Proverbs 4:2
The SDA denomination does not "forsake the law". We acknowledge all Ten Commandments as the definition of sin. Does yours?

"Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.". John 7:16

The present day attacks on the Seventh Day Adventist church by other denominations are because it accepts the doctrines of the Father and the Son. Does yours?

Quit cowering behind pharisaic sophistry. I have shared my denomination. Show me the same respect, share yours. If your doctrine is so strong, so biblical, what do you have to fear from the weak, unbiblical teachings of Seventh Day Adventists?

Thank you for the allusion to John 7. I was trying to remember it in reference to your false accusations against me.

"My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me. If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority. He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him. Did not Moses give you the law, yet none of you keeps the law? Why do you seek to kill Me?"

-- John 7:16-19

///

Re: Apostasy of a most startling nature.... [Re: James Peterson] #189708
06/10/19 05:54 AM
06/10/19 05:54 AM
ProdigalOne  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024
Supporting Member 2023

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,168
Alberta, Canada
The only "accusation" I have against you is that you do not have enough confidence in your own denomination to share it with the Seventh Day Adventists that you continually attack.


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Apostasy of a most startling nature.... [Re: ProdigalOne] #189713
06/10/19 07:53 AM
06/10/19 07:53 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
The only "accusation" I have against you is that you do not have enough confidence in your own denomination to share it with the Seventh Day Adventists that you continually attack.

Hear ye, O mortal, the word of the LORD, the Everlasting God: "I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? For when one says, 'I am of [Ellen White],' and another, 'I am of [Joseph Smith],' are you not carnal? ... Let no one boast in men. For all things are yours: whether White or Smith or Russell, or the world or life or death, or things present or things to come—all are yours. And you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s." 1 Corinthians 3

///

Re: Apostasy of a most startling nature.... [Re: Rick H] #189770
06/15/19 08:25 PM
06/15/19 08:25 PM
ProdigalOne  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024
Supporting Member 2023

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,168
Alberta, Canada
Paul and Apollos, in your misquoted verse, were both faithful Christians who accepted the Word of God. They were working for the same purpose: "I (Paul) have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase." 1 Corinthians 3:6
Therefore, it was irrelevant which of them evangelized a particular person.

Replacing Paul with Ellen White and Apollos with Joseph Smith is rather disingenuous since Smith was not a Christian. They would never gave been working for the same purpose. Are you inferring that you are not a Christian?

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols?"

2 Corinthians 6:14-16


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Apostasy of a most startling nature.... [Re: ProdigalOne] #189773
06/15/19 10:08 PM
06/15/19 10:08 PM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted By: ProdigalOne
Paul and Apollos, in your misquoted verse, were both faithful Christians who accepted the Word of God. They were working for the same purpose: "I (Paul) have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase." 1 Corinthians 3:6
Therefore, it was irrelevant which of them evangelized a particular person.

Replacing Paul with Ellen White and Apollos with Joseph Smith is rather disingenuous since Smith was not a Christian. They would never gave been working for the same purpose. Are you inferring that you are not a Christian?

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols?"

2 Corinthians 6:14-16

Are you trying hard to suggest that Joseph Smith, Ellen White and Charles Russell were NOT Christians, NOT working to bring people into a saving relationship with Jesus Christ? Yours is a vain attempt at sectarianism which Paul condemns in 2 Cor. 3.

Joseph Smith, Ellen White and Charles Russell were NOT leading others into idolatry. Idolatry was something Paul condemned saying, "Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols?" 2 Cor. 6:14-16.

READ THE CONTEXT BEFORE JUMPING OFF THE CLIFF SO CLUMSILY.

But wait, aren't SDA the ones who bow before Saturday singing in solemn adoration, "Welcome, welcome, ever welcome, Blessed Sabbath day! Welcome, welcome, ever welcome, Blessed Sabbath day ..."? There's a whiff of tobacco in the air, isn't there?

///

Re: Apostasy of a most startling nature.... [Re: dedication] #190250
07/27/19 06:16 AM
07/27/19 06:16 AM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,100
Florida, USA
Originally Posted by dedication
Basically we would need more information to really comment intelligently on this matter.

Like, what is the purpose of these studies?
What has triggered the decision to have them?

For example -- in our region there have been seminars on "Muslim Theology". I have not attended any of them (yet) not sure if I will in the future. As I'm not exactly comfortable with the idea, for the Moslem religion, at it's core, is purely a "works" theology (which to a large extent is also true of the Catholic religion).

But the idea behind those lessons, is to "find ways to reach the Moslem community".
In which case, for those serious about bringing the gospel to Muslims, finding some common stepping stones to lead them to salvation in Christ, would be a helpful and useful tool.

But of course, I do not know if this is the case of the "RC theology lessons" in you original church.

Too often, in these inter-faith "lessons" the goal is to promote the idea that all religions lead to God, just respect them all and don't agitate any "right" or "wrong" -- they are all good in their own way. Yet this is a key mindset which lies at the foundation of the ecumenical program. We need to be alert to its infiltration into our thinking. Revelation makes it clear that not all "worship" leads to God.

I suppose another possible reason for those lessons could be part of preparing for the merging factor in our health institutions, that seems to be occurring -- I don't know if the school you referenced is the Adventist Health University in Florida, nor have I heard anything of it considering joining the merging trend.
However, there have been several moves elsewhere of Adventist Health systems "yoking together" with the Catholic Health systems.
There is the AMITA (a joint venture of Catholic Ascension's Alexian Brothers Health System and Adventist Midwest Health) There is the Adventist Health and the Catholic St. Joseph Health are yoking together in several western states.
That, in my view, is apostasy -- a complete reverse of the purpose for which our health institutions were founded and our health message given -- they were to be the right arm to help proclaim the three angel's message!

Well I finally got confirmation of what I saw with my own eyes, and we kept hearing in bits and pieces. I talked to one of my longtime friends last night and he confirmed even worse than I had imaged. They have been directed to only teach the most basic elements of Christianity, nothing in any way of real truth from the lesson and much less from Adventism or Ellen White. The 'band' I saw rocking and rolling on the pulpit as they 'practiced' is brought in every Sabbath to play a gig just as they would at a club, and they aren't even members and of course don't participate in any Sabbath or church activities except to play the gig. We were wondering why the church was 'paying' the 'band' to the point it was putting them in the red, as most visitors leave after hearing the noise and most members left, and those that want to hear the 'band' I would say are there more for the 'free concert'. Its very sad what our former church has turned into, with the few people coming to it in shorts and T-shirts to basically socialize, with a short sermon given you could hear at any non-denominational church, and wiped clean of any 'controversial' Seventh Day Adventist message.

As I said, be ready, this is what lies ahead for the church and the faithful remnant...

Last edited by Rick H; 07/27/19 06:20 AM.
Re: Apostasy of a most startling nature.... [Re: Rick H] #190254
07/28/19 09:44 PM
07/28/19 09:44 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,118
Nova Scotia, Canada
And this is happening in the Florida Conference???


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Apostasy of a most startling nature.... [Re: Rick H] #190258
07/29/19 12:24 PM
07/29/19 12:24 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
Midland
When numbers are important, some forget the purpose. A free concert brings in the numbers. They are counted, reported, and then it's considered the church is growing and doing things right. Why, look at the numbers, it must be working!

That's why we must must consider that there is some point, regardless of whether it's bringing the numbers, we must consider that it is not right, nor proper.

Re: Apostasy of a most startling nature.... [Re: Daryl] #190263
07/29/19 03:49 PM
07/29/19 03:49 PM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,100
Florida, USA
Originally Posted by Daryl
And this is happening in the Florida Conference???
This is happening in the Adventist churches who are picking up these ideas, from what other church members are reporting, not just Florida. It is happening in all the churches that are following the various aspects of the Willow Creek/Spiritual Formation under many names. I saw it in our church my sister helped start in Miami, the same things, but they were so subtle that I didn't recognize it. I went along till finally something allowed me to discern and become aware that it was slowly taking us away from God and His truth.

Last edited by Rick H; 08/21/19 05:17 PM.
Re: Apostasy of a most startling nature.... [Re: Rick H] #190670
08/27/19 10:43 AM
08/27/19 10:43 AM
J
James Peterson  Offline
NON-SDA
Active Member 2019

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,195
Canada
Originally Posted by Rick H
Originally Posted by Daryl
And this is happening in the Florida Conference???
This is happening in the Adventist churches who are picking up these ideas, from what other church members are reporting, not just Florida. It is happening in all the churches that are following the various aspects of the Willow Creek/Spiritual Formation under many names. I saw it in our church my sister helped start in Miami, the same things, but they were so subtle that I didn't recognize it. I went along till finally something allowed me to discern and become aware that it was slowly taking us away from God and His truth.

What is spiritual formation?

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