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Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: Rick H] #195064
10/12/22 11:06 PM
10/12/22 11:06 PM
dedication  Offline
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As to Uriah Smith --
EGW endorsed his book, but I fully agree that, that does not make everything in his writing the ultimate truth on how to interpret every verse.
What he did write, however set the correct pattern as to how Daniel and Revelation are to be interpreted. It is this method, -- seeing the fulfilment of these prophecies unfolding all along history to the final restoration -- that EGW fully endorsed.

As to modern writers -- there are some that give good insights into the Bible passages, but there are MANY who have distorted things till every wind of doctrine can be "proven" by scripture.

The dialogue going into much more depth concerning modern writers on the books of Daniel and Revelation has been moved to "Daniel and Revelation Interpretations"

Any dialogue on Bible Versions are welcome on this thread.

Last edited by dedication; 10/20/22 12:45 AM.
Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: Rick H] #195089
10/20/22 12:43 AM
10/20/22 12:43 AM
dedication  Offline
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This week as I was studying the Sabbath School lesson, read a text in the KJV that I found a little difficult, so looked it up in other versions and it was quite different.

KJV
Psalms 49:8 For the redemption of their soul is precious, and it ceaseth for ever:
49:9 That he should still live for ever, and]not see corruption.

Yet when I read it in NIV
Psalm 49:8-9
8 the ransom for a life is costly, no payment is ever enough? 9 so that they should live on forever and not see decay.

NASB
Psalms 49:8-9 For the redemption of his soul is costly,
And he should cease trying forever?
That he should live on eternally,
That he should not undergo decay.

NAB
8 No man can ransom even a brother,
or pay to God his own ransom.
9 The redemption of his soul is costly;
and he will pass away forever.
10 Will he live on forever, then,
and never see the Pit of Corruption?

RSV
8 for the ransom of his life is costly,
and can never suffice,
9 that he should continue to live on for ever,
and never see the Pit.


The different versions are saying slightly different things.

How do you folk explain that verse?





Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: Rick H] #195099
10/21/22 01:50 AM
10/21/22 01:50 AM
dedication  Offline
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Adam Clarke Bible Commentary
seems to give an explanation that fits the KJV without the additions the versions seem to add.

Quote

And it ceaseth for ever]
This is very obscure, and may apply to the ransom which riches could produce. That ransom must be for ever unavailable, because of the value of the soul.
Or this clause should be added to the following verse, and read thus: "And though he cease to be, (vechadal,) during the hidden time, (leolam;) yet he shall live on through eternity, (vichi od lanetsach,) and not see corruption." This is probably the dark saying which it was the design of the author to utter in a parable, and leave it to the ingenuity of posterity to find it out. The verb (chadal} signifies a cessation of being or action, and {olam} often signifies hidden time, that which is not defined, and the end of which is not ascertained, though it is frequently used to express endless duration.


Basically how that commentary seems to explain it is:


"For the redemption of their soul is precious, (riches are unavailable to pay the ransom)
And though he cease to be, during the hidden time (the undefined time spent in the grave)
Yet he shall live throughout eternity.

The NAB was probably the closest in saying "He will pass away" ... "forever" OR for an undefined time.

The other translations point to the need for the superior ransom which we realize only Christ provides.
But that "obscure" phrase in the KJV: "And it ceaseth" seems to also add the concept of being hidden in the grave for an undefined time awaiting a resurrection.




Last edited by dedication; 10/21/22 01:54 AM. Reason: the Hebrew was garbled.
Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: Kevin H] #195119
10/24/22 08:10 PM
10/24/22 08:10 PM
K
kland  Offline
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I think Kevin said it well and has the view we should all have.

Originally Posted by Kevin H
Often a good recommendation is to find a Bible that is easy for you to read. There are Bibles written on the third grade reading level. Then have a study Bible to spend more time with, and if you can have a few different study Bibles (either your own, or in a local library.)

And yet there are some of the past, and of the present, who would lock the Bible up physically or in a language people don't understand and say that's the only true Bible. They want people to be discouraged and think it's too hard to read, to cause them to give up.

No one has a monopoly of understanding.

Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: Rick H] #196115
07/29/23 04:41 PM
07/29/23 04:41 PM
Rick H  Offline
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Well here is one that was truly distorted and misrepresented in the modern versions...


Here is the King James with context...
Mark 7:18-20

18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.


and the new modern versions...

LSB
because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and goes to the sewer?? (Thus He declared all foods clean.)
LEB
For it does not enter into his heart but into his stomach, and goes out into the latrine??thus declaring all foods clean.
TLB
For food doesn?t come in contact with your heart, but only passes through the digestive system.? (By saying this he showed that every kind of food is kosher.)
MSG
Jesus said, ?Are you being willfully stupid? Don?t you see that what you swallow can?t contaminate you? It doesn?t enter your heart but your stomach, works its way through the intestines, and is finally flushed.? (That took care of dietary quibbling; Jesus was saying that all foods are fit to eat.)
MOUNCE
because it does not enter his ? heart, but his stomach, and goes out into the latrine?? (Thus he declared all ? foods clean.)
NOG
It doesn?t go into his thoughts but into his stomach and then into a toilet.? (By saying this, Yeshua declared all foods acceptable.)
NABRE
since it enters not the heart but the stomach and passes out into the latrine?? (Thus he declared all foods clean.)
NASB
because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?? (Thereby He declared all foods clean.)
NASB1995
because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?? (Thus He declared all foods clean.)
NCB
since it enters not into the heart but into the stomach and is discharged into the sewer?? Thus, he pronounced all foods clean.
NCV
It does not go into the mind, but into the stomach. Then it goes out of the body.? (When Jesus said this, he meant that no longer was any food unclean for people to eat.)
NET
For it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and then goes out into the sewer.? (This means all foods are clean.)
NIRV
It doesn?t go into their heart. It goes into their stomach. Then it goes out of the body.? In saying this, Jesus was calling all foods ?clean.?
NIV
For it doesn?t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.? (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
NIVUK
For it doesn?t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.? (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
NLV
It does not go into his heart, but into his stomach and then on out of his body.? In this way, He was saying that all food is clean.
NLT
Food doesn?t go into your heart, but only passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer.? (By saying this, he declared that every kind of food is acceptable in God?s eyes.)
NRSVA
since it enters, not the heart but the stomach, and goes out into the sewer?? (Thus he declared all foods clean.)
NRSVACE
since it enters, not the heart but the stomach, and goes out into the sewer?? (Thus he declared all foods clean.)
NRSVCE
since it enters, not the heart but the stomach, and goes out into the sewer?? (Thus he declared all foods clean.)
NRSVUE
since it enters not the heart but the stomach and goes out into the sewer?? (Thus he declared all foods clean.)

And nobody hardly notices...

Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: Rick H] #196116
07/29/23 06:37 PM
07/29/23 06:37 PM
G
Garywk  Offline
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Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
Originally Posted by Rick H
Well here is one that was truly distorted and misrepresented in the modern versions...


Here is the King James with context...
Mark 7:18-20

18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.


and the new modern versions...

LSB
because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and goes to the sewer?? (Thus He declared all foods clean.)
LEB
For it does not enter into his heart but into his stomach, and goes out into the latrine??thus declaring all foods clean.
TLB
For food doesn?t come in contact with your heart, but only passes through the digestive system.? (By saying this he showed that every kind of food is kosher.)
MSG
Jesus said, ?Are you being willfully stupid? Don?t you see that what you swallow can?t contaminate you? It doesn?t enter your heart but your stomach, works its way through the intestines, and is finally flushed.? (That took care of dietary quibbling; Jesus was saying that all foods are fit to eat.)
MOUNCE
because it does not enter his ? heart, but his stomach, and goes out into the latrine?? (Thus he declared all ? foods clean.)
NOG
It doesn?t go into his thoughts but into his stomach and then into a toilet.? (By saying this, Yeshua declared all foods acceptable.)
NABRE
since it enters not the heart but the stomach and passes out into the latrine?? (Thus he declared all foods clean.)
NASB
because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?? (Thereby He declared all foods clean.)
NASB1995
because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?? (Thus He declared all foods clean.)
NCB
since it enters not into the heart but into the stomach and is discharged into the sewer?? Thus, he pronounced all foods clean.
NCV
It does not go into the mind, but into the stomach. Then it goes out of the body.? (When Jesus said this, he meant that no longer was any food unclean for people to eat.)
NET
For it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and then goes out into the sewer.? (This means all foods are clean.)
NIRV
It doesn?t go into their heart. It goes into their stomach. Then it goes out of the body.? In saying this, Jesus was calling all foods ?clean.?
NIV
For it doesn?t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.? (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
NIVUK
For it doesn?t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.? (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)
NLV
It does not go into his heart, but into his stomach and then on out of his body.? In this way, He was saying that all food is clean.
NLT
Food doesn?t go into your heart, but only passes through the stomach and then goes into the sewer.? (By saying this, he declared that every kind of food is acceptable in God?s eyes.)
NRSVA
since it enters, not the heart but the stomach, and goes out into the sewer?? (Thus he declared all foods clean.)
NRSVACE
since it enters, not the heart but the stomach, and goes out into the sewer?? (Thus he declared all foods clean.)
NRSVCE
since it enters, not the heart but the stomach, and goes out into the sewer?? (Thus he declared all foods clean.)
NRSVUE
since it enters not the heart but the stomach and goes out into the sewer?? (Thus he declared all foods clean.)

And nobody hardly notices...



I don't quite understand your post. Are you quoting the parenthetical statements from those versions have them? And the versions which do not have the parenthetical statements have your own comments? If so I see one version that still tells the truth. I have suspected paraphrases for a long time such as Good News for Modern Man. I had a teacher in academy, a retired pastor, who used it for my senior year Bible class. I have to say though that he taught a good course as he explained the rational behind the commandments in a way that made sense. We also had a Bible teacher who didn't use .a paraphrase and he got caught with a sophomore girl who graded papers for him sitting on his lap. Just goes to show the human heart is deceitfully wicked.


Last edited by Garywk; 07/29/23 06:38 PM.
Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: Rick H] #196117
07/29/23 08:17 PM
07/29/23 08:17 PM
dedication  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2004
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It's obvious by the parenthesis that something was added that was not in the original.

The translators added THEIR OPPINION as to what Jesus meant by His statement.
At that point those translations are not literal translations but what is known as "thought translations" in which the translator states what he (the translator) THOUGHT Jesus meant.

The above passage is hard to understand no matter what translation one reads it in.

What did Jesus mean when He said what goes into a person doesn't defile them?


CONTEXT
It was NOT about clean or unclean meat.
It WAS about cleansing laws like washing of hands, pots, cups, vessels. (7:3-4)
What ever worried the Pharisees about defiling themselves naturally was eliminated by the body functions.

So what is Jesus saying in this text?
How does getting rid of defiling things defile?

Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: dedication] #196121
07/30/23 02:14 AM
07/30/23 02:14 AM
G
Garywk  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2023

Veteran Member
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 982
Colville, Wa
Originally Posted by dedication
It's obvious by the parenthesis that something was added that was not in the original.

The translators added THEIR OPPINION as to what Jesus meant by His statement.
At that point those translations are not literal translations but what is known as "thought translations" in which the translator states what he (the translator) THOUGHT Jesus meant.

The above passage is hard to understand no matter what translation one reads it in.

What did Jesus mean when He said what goes into a person doesn't defile them?


CONTEXT
It was NOT about clean or unclean meat.
It WAS about cleansing laws like washing of hands, pots, cups, vessels. (7:3-4)
What ever worried the Pharisees about defiling themselves naturally was eliminated by the body functions.

So what is Jesus saying in this text?
How does getting rid of defiling things defile?


What most people don't realize is that statement by Jesus is in reference to the laws found in the Talmud. They had thousands of laws covering every aspect of human behavior. I just happened to quote some of those laws about washing on another form a couple of days ago. The laws concerning just the washing of hands were incredibly complex. To me they were insane.

Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: dedication] #196146
08/01/23 07:33 PM
08/01/23 07:33 PM
K
kland  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
Midland
Originally Posted by dedication
The above passage is hard to understand no matter what translation one reads it in.

What did Jesus mean when He said what goes into a person doesn't defile them?
Is it not clear that even if you ate pork, that doesn't "defile" you, but what comes out of your heart or mind, that defiles you. The point has nothing to do with foods.

Re: Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions [Re: Rick H] #196148
08/01/23 07:36 PM
08/01/23 07:36 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
Midland
Rick, Instead of bringing up a different passage, could you answer what is your ruler for comparing which version is correct?
Originally Posted by kland
Changed ones, or different ones?

Again, what is your ruler for comparing which is correct?

The SDA commentary is full of where the KJV says one word, but the commentary says things like, "better ..." and uses a different word. It uses the Greek and Hebrew usage as it's ruler. What is yours?

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