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Re: Obscure Statement on the Time of Trouble by EG White
[Re: Charity]
#191315
11/27/19 01:01 PM
11/27/19 01:01 PM
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Are not trumpets and plagues the same?
No.
They end at the same time, but do not begin at the same time.
Those statements do not say
the seven trumpets will sound.
Remember Jericho --
seven days, each day trumpets sounded.
Example of the historical seven trumpets.
The seventh day all the trumpets sounded , in seven fold intensity.
The seven trumpets of history -- all blasting
In the end all the forces that were battling through history will arise in terrible intensity.
Last edited by dedication; 11/27/19 01:06 PM.
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Re: Obscure Statement on the Time of Trouble by EG White
[Re: Charity]
#193128
10/16/20 09:28 PM
10/16/20 09:28 PM
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The text below is from Manuscript 1, 1848. Written November 18, at Dorchester, Massachusetts. The statements are made by Ellen White while in vision, written down by Joseph Bates. These statements are found in Joseph Bates' tract, A Seal of the Living God, A Hundred Forty-four Thousand of the Servants of God Sealed, pp. 24-26, 32. What captured my attention is that she says the time of trouble has begun. "The time of trouble has commenced, it is begun. The reason why the four winds have not let go, is because the saints are not all sealed. It's on the increase, and will increase more and more; the trouble will never end until the earth is rid of the wicked."
"At that time neighbor will be against neighbor. That time has not yet come, when brother against brother and sister against sister; but will come when Michael stands up."
"When Michael stands up this trouble will be all over the earth."
"Why they are just ready to blow. There?s a check put on because the saints are not sealed." Well, we are certainly seeing the winds being let go, so we are close to the sealing.
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Re: Obscure Statement on the Time of Trouble by EG White
[Re: Charity]
#193130
10/17/20 01:47 AM
10/17/20 01:47 AM
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THOSE WORDS SURE FIT OUR TIME!!!!
""The time of trouble has commenced, it is begun. The reason why the four winds have not let go, is because the saints are not all sealed."
Yes, now, in 2020, it definitely seems like the time of trouble has commenced. Yet the winds haven't been fully released yet -- we hear them loudly roaring with great force, about to fully break lose
-- Pray that each one is taking the sealing very serious for probation time is running out.
Cling to Jesus, walk with HIM in faith and obedience, every day, every hour. He will never leave those who walk with Him, following the Lamb where ever He leads.
---
Good to see you back, Rick.
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Re: Obscure Statement on the Time of Trouble by EG White
[Re: Charity]
#193132
10/17/20 05:02 PM
10/17/20 05:02 PM
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Why is it that I can't find "The time of trouble has commenced" anywhere in the writings of EGW?
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Re: Obscure Statement on the Time of Trouble by EG White
[Re: Charity]
#193133
10/17/20 05:09 PM
10/17/20 05:09 PM
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I did find the following in her writings that are dated later, as in 1882, which is much later than that 1848 date in Rick's post: I saw that the anger of the nations, the wrath of God, and the time to judge the dead were separate and distinct, one following the other, also that Michael had not stood up, and that the time of trouble, such as never was, had not yet commenced. The nations are now getting angry, but when our High Priest has finished His work in the sanctuary, He will stand up, put on the garments of vengeance, and then the seven last plagues will be poured out. {EW 36.1}
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Re: Obscure Statement on the Time of Trouble by EG White
[Re: Daryl]
#193134
10/17/20 07:26 PM
10/17/20 07:26 PM
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The statement was posted in the Opening Post --with this explanation These statements are found in Joseph Bates' tract, "A Seal of the Living God, A Hundred Forty-four Thousand of the Servants of God Sealed", pp. 24-26, 32. The statements are made (spoken) by Ellen White while in vision, written down by Joseph Bates. Here's some of the context:
Revelation 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God...
I had believed that this ascending was to have been taken in a literal sense; the sealing messengers going at first from the borders of the Atlantic (sun?s rising,) West, and North, declaring the sealing message, but God in answer to united prayer gave us the clear light upon it, through sister Ellen G. White; some of the circumstances were as follows:
- A small company of brethren and sisters were assembled in meeting in Dorchester, near Boston, Mass. Before the meeting commenced, some of us were examining some of the points in the sealing message; some difference of opinion existed about the correctness of the view of the word ascending, etc., and whereas we had made the publishing of the message a subject of prayer at the Topsham Conference a little previous, and the way to publish appeared not sufficiently clear, we therefore resolved unitedly to refer it all to God. After some time spent in earnest prayer for light and instruction, God gave sister White the following in vision, --
viz: Where did the light break out? Let thine angels teach us where the light broke out! It commenced from a little, then thou didst give one light after another. The testimony and commandments are linked together, they cannot be separated; that comes first the ten commandments, by God.
The commandments never would be struck against if it were not to get rid of the Sabbath commandment. That one that has relaxed it is very foolish. It was very small, and when it rose, though it rose in strength, it was weak back there, when it came up it increase, (or increased.) If they won?t hear it they are as accountable as though they did hear it.
He was well pleased when his law began to come up in strength, and the waste places began to be built up.
Out of weakness it has become strong from searching his word. The test upon it has been but a short time. All who are saved will be tried upon it in some way. That the truth arises and is on the increase, stronger, and stronger. It?s the seal! It?s coming up! It arises, commencing from the rising of the sun. Like the sun, first cold, grows warmer and sends its rays.
When that truth arose there was but little light in it, but it has been increasing. O the power of these rays.
It grows in strength, the greatest weight and light is on that truth, for it lasts forever . It arose there in the east, it began with a small light, but its beams are healing. O how mighty is that truth; it?s the highest after they enter the goodly land, but it will increase till they are made immortal. It commenced from the rising of the sun, keeps on its course like the sun, but it never sets.
The angels are holding the four winds.
It is God that restrains the powers.
The angels have not let go, for the saints are not all sealed.
The time of trouble has commenced, it is begun. The reason why the four winds have not let go, is because the saints are not all sealed. Its on the increase, and will increase more and more; the trouble will never end until the earth is rid of the wicked.
At that time neighbor will be against neighbor. That time has not yet come, when brother against brother r and sister against sister; but will come when Michael stands up.
When Michael stands up, this trouble will be all over the earth.
Why they are just ready to blow. There?s a check put on because the saints are not sealed.
Yea, publish the things thou hast seen and heard, and the blessing of God will attend. Look ye! that rising is in strength, and grows brighter and brighter. That truth is the seal, that?s why it comes last. The shut door we have had. God has taught and taught, but that experience is not the seal, and that commandment that has been trodden under foot will be exalted. And when ye get that you will go through the time of trouble.
Yea, all that thou art looking at, thou shalt not see just now. Be careful, let no light be set aside .
The above was copied word for word as she spake in vision, therefore unadulterated; some sentences escaped us, and some which we have not copied here. This probably is sufficient to show the answer to our prayers.
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Re: Obscure Statement on the Time of Trouble by EG White
[Re: Charity]
#193135
10/17/20 11:05 PM
10/17/20 11:05 PM
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I find it strange that EGW didn't write it down herself like she did with her other visions.
Has anybody asked the EGW Estate about this vision?
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Re: Obscure Statement on the Time of Trouble by EG White
[Re: Charity]
#193137
10/18/20 12:37 AM
10/18/20 12:37 AM
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I don't think the White Estate has a problem with it --
They published some of this in a book called "The Publishing Ministry" (1983) which is a compilation of EGW's writings on the publishing work.
Below --
Capital letters = what the White Estate put into the book.
Blue = Bates' words
Green = James White's words
Purple and small letters = Ellen White's written words
Chap. 1 - Dorchester Vision of 1848 and Our First Publishing Ventures
The Dorchester Vision of 1848. [FOLLOWING THEIR RETURN FROM WESTERN NEW YORK IN SEPTEMBER, 1848, ELDER AND MRS. WHITE JOURNEYED TO MAINE, WHERE THEY HELD A MEETING WITH THE BELIEVERS, OCTOBER 20-22. THIS WAS THE TOPSHAM CONFERENCE, WHERE THE BRETHREN BEGAN PRAYING THAT A WAY MIGHT BE OPENED FOR PUBLISHING THE TRUTHS CONNECTED WITH THE ADVENT MESSAGE.
A MONTH LATER THEY WERE WITH "A SMALL COMPANY OF BRETHREN AND SISTERS," WRITES JOSEPH BATES IN HIS PAMPHLET ON "THE SEALING MESSAGE," "ASSEMBLED IN MEETING IN DORCHESTER, NEAR BOSTON, MASS." "BEFORE THE MEETING COMMENCED," HE CONTINUES, "SOME OF US WERE EXAMINING SOME OF THE POINTS IN THE SEALING MESSAGE; SOME DIFFERENCE OF OPINION EXISTED ABOUT THE CORRECTNESS OF THE VIEW OF THE WORD 'ASCENDING' [SEE REVELATION 7:2], ETC."
ELDER JAMES WHITE, IN. . . GIVING HIS ACCOUNT OF THIS MEETING, WRITES: "WE ALL FELT LIKE UNITING TO ASK WISDOM FROM GOD ON THE POINTS IN DISPUTE; ALSO BROTHER BATES'S DUTY IN WRITING. WE HAD AN EXCEEDINGLY POWERFUL MEETING. ELLEN WAS AGAIN TAKEN OFF IN VISION. SHE THEN BEGAN TO DESCRIBE THE SABBATH LIGHT, WHICH WAS THE SEALING TRUTH. SAID SHE; 'IT AROSE FROM THE RISING OF THE SUN. IT AROSE BACK THERE IN WEAKNESS, BUT LIGHT AFTER LIGHT HAS SHONE UPON IT UNTIL THE SABBATH TRUTH IS CLEAR, WEIGHTY, AND MIGHTY. LIKE THE SUN WHEN IT FIRST RISES, ITS RAYS ARE COLD, BUT AS IT COMES UP, ITS RAYS ARE WARMING AND POWERFUL; SO THE LIGHT AND POWER HAS INCREASED MORE AND MORE UNTIL ITS RAYS ARE POWERFUL, SANCTIFYING THE SOUL; BUT, UNLIKE THE SUN, IT WILL NEVER SET. THE SABBATH LIGHT WILL BE AT ITS BRIGHTEST WHEN THE SAINTS ARE IMMORTAL; IT WILL RISE HIGHER AND HIGHER UNTIL IMMORTALITY COMES.'
"SHE SAW MANY INTERESTING THINGS ABOUT THIS GLORIOUS SEALING SABBATH, WHICH I HAVE NOT TIME OR SPACE TO RECORD. SHE TOLD BROTHER BATES TO WRITE THE THINGS HE HAD SEEN AND HEARD, AND THE BLESSING OF GOD WOULD ATTEND IT."
IT WAS AFTER THIS VISION THAT MRS. WHITE INFORMED HER HUSBAND OF HIS DUTY TO PUBLISH, AND THAT AS HE SHOULD ADVANCE BY FAITH, SUCCESS WOULD ATTEND HIS EFFORTS.--LS 116, FOOTNOTE.
REGARDING THIS VISION OF NOVEMBER 18, 1848, ELDER JOSEPH BATES TESTIFIED THAT HE SAW AND HEARD THE FOLLOWING FROM THE LIPS OF ELLEN HARMON:
"'YEA, PUBLISH THE THINGS THOU HAST SEEN AND HEARD, AND THE BLESSING OF GOD WILL ATTEND. LOOK YE! THAT RISING IS IN STRENGTH, AND GROWS BRIGHTER AND BRIGHTER!' . . . THE ABOVE WAS COPIED WORD FOR WORD AS SHE SPAKE IN VISION, THEREFORE IT'S UNADULTERATED."--A SEAL OF THE LIVING GOD (SEVENTY-TWO-PAGE PAMPHLET PUBLISHED BY JOSEPH BATES IN 1849), P. 26.]
--At a meeting held in Dorchester, Mass., November, 1848, I had been given a view of the proclamation of the sealing message, and of the duty of the brethren to publish the light that was shining upon our pathway.
16 {PM 15.1}
After coming out of vision, I said to my husband; I have a message for you. You must begin to print a little paper and send it out to the people. Let it be small at first; but as the people read, they will send you means with which to print, and it will be a success from the first. From this small beginning it was shown to me to be like streams of light that went clear round the world." {PM 16.1}
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Re: Obscure Statement on the Time of Trouble by EG White
[Re: Charity]
#193138
10/18/20 01:03 AM
10/18/20 01:03 AM
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The problem, I think is the wording "the time of trouble has commenced".
This vision is NOT about the prophetic time of trouble so much as it is about the SABBATH and publishing the message of the Sabbath as the seal of God.
As the Sabbath truth rises in power from weakness to strength,
so trouble (as I understand what she is saying) rises to ever greater opposition against it.
She is clear the four winds (which she in other places combines with the GREAT time of trouble) have not yet been released, so I'm pretty sure she did NOT mean the "great time of trouble" had started.
She clearly says the persecution when neighbor turns against neighbor "has not yet come".
But the trouble that comes against those proclaiming the Sabbath truth had begun, in that they would met opposition and this opposition would intensive in power, force and ultimate persecution, and not cease till Christ comes.
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Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
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