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Steve Wohlberg links SL, CC and LR (Sunday Laws, Climate Change and the Latter Rain #191318
11/30/19 08:11 AM
11/30/19 08:11 AM
C
Charity  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2020

4500+ Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
In his latest excellent video sermon here, Elder Wohlberg links the latter rain to the enforcement of Sunday Laws.

For years I've studied and wondered about Ellen White's vision called "The Shaking", page 269 in Early Writings. She indicates that some kind of major crises causes a shaking that finally results in the latter rain. Wohlberg identifies that crises as a national Sunday law. Recently other faithful ministers like Andrew Henriques have said the same. Also, the little known dream/vision I posted this week seems to agree.

I think Elder Steve is right. I think we're close! What do you all think?

Re: Steve Wohlberg links SL, CC and LR (Sunday Laws, Climate Change and the Latter Rain [Re: Charity] #191319
11/30/19 05:11 PM
11/30/19 05:11 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
God wants to come yesterday, if not sooner. He's waiting. Why is He waiting? We haven't finished the job He gave us to do.

In the country where I presently reside and work, fewer than 1% of the people are Christian (with Catholics excluded). There are over a hundred tribal groups in this country, many/most of which still have no Bible in their language. There are entire villages where the name of Christ has never been spoken. We have fewer than 20 ordained Adventist pastors in the entire country. And the government has recently stepped up the persecutions here. I witnessed about 20 people baptized a couple Sabbaths ago--most had been transported out of their province to a church about eight hours' distance from their home, just to be baptized safely. They were from one of the tribal groups that still has no Bible.

Meanwhile, the NAD is redirecting money to itself, giving less and less year by year to other divisions. Where I am there is no Conference. Not even a Mission. Most of the church workers are but youth. The median age in this country is about 23, and a third of the population is 14 or younger. Alcoholism prevents longevity. Half of schools here have electricity. Three quarters have leak-proof roofs. Only a quarter have functional restroom facilities segregated for boys and girls. The divide between the haves and the have-nots is marked. And the government has been shutting down our churches. In many provinces here we are forbidden to meet in a church building. House churches are also technically illegal, but are harder to control. A nearby group that I met with recently in one of the members' homes solves the problem by moving around--juggling homes in which to meet. Foreigners are prohibited from preaching in any local church or home--the only exception being in the main church in the capital city.

Today at church I went head to head with a Chinese man who believes firmly that the law has been abolished and once saved always saved. He has been going around to our members to try to convert them over to his doctrine, and he downplays the importance of the Sabbath. But I was unable to prove his position to be in error from the Bible, as he does not know English and cannot be shown anything from the KJV Bible. Americans take that Bible largely for granted! The newer versions from the corrupt Alexandrian manuscripts claim the law has been abolished. I weakly attempted to explain to the man that his Bible was corrupt and not to be believed (see, for example, the NIV for Ephesians 2:15 and Colossians 2:14--that's what his Chinese Bible is like). He was unpersuaded, and I had no other option. As Ellen White says, error is never harmless. We need better Bible translations in Asia....desperately!

Meanwhile, Americans think the Great Controversy is over. We are told the final movements will be rapid ones, but let me tell you, it takes time for some things. The average time taken to translate a Bible is 20 years the old way. Now, with computer support, we can cut that to about a third. But it still takes time. While, from my vantage point, it seems NAD Adventists do little more than chatter about how things are wrapping up, it amounts to talk without action.

If you want to go Home sooner, then let's put our hands, time, money, and talents where our mouth is. Get involved. There's work to be done! As Jesus said, "Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come." (Matthew 10:23) If that's how it is for the cities in Israel, what about those of the rest of the world? Don't they deserve to hear the Gospel?

Originally Posted by Ellen White
Workers are needed now. As a people, we are not doing one fiftieth of what we might do as active missionaries. If we were only vitalized by the Holy Spirit, there would be a hundred missionaries where there is now one. {MM, December 1, 1892 par. 10}


Please come over and help us!

Selah.

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Steve Wohlberg links SL, CC and LR (Sunday Laws, Climate Change and the Latter Rain [Re: Green Cochoa] #191320
11/30/19 05:45 PM
11/30/19 05:45 PM
C
Charity  Offline OP
SDA
Charter Member
Active Member 2020

4500+ Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 4,583
USA
Originally Posted by Green Cochoa
God wants to come yesterday, if not sooner. He's waiting. Why is He waiting? We haven't finished the job He gave us to do.

In the country where I presently reside and work, fewer than 1% of the people are Christian (with Catholics excluded). There are over a hundred tribal groups in this country, many/most of which still have no Bible in their language. There are entire villages where the name of Christ has never been spoken. We have fewer than 20 ordained Adventist pastors in the entire country. And the government has recently stepped up the persecutions here. I witnessed about 20 people baptized a couple Sabbaths ago--most had been transported out of their province to a church about eight hours' distance from their home, just to be baptized safely. They were from one of the tribal groups that still has no Bible.

Meanwhile, the NAD is redirecting money to itself, giving less and less year by year to other divisions. Where I am there is no Conference. Not even a Mission. Most of the church workers are but youth. The median age in this country is about 23, and a third of the population is 14 or younger. Alcoholism prevents longevity. Half of schools here have electricity. Three quarters have leak-proof roofs. Only a quarter have functional restroom facilities segregated for boys and girls. The divide between the haves and the have-nots is marked. And the government has been shutting down our churches. In many provinces here we are forbidden to meet in a church building. House churches are also technically illegal, but are harder to control. A nearby group that I met with recently in one of the members' homes solves the problem by moving around--juggling homes in which to meet. Foreigners are prohibited from preaching in any local church or home--the only exception being in the main church in the capital city.

Today at church I went head to head with a Chinese man who believes firmly that the law has been abolished and once saved always saved. He has been going around to our members to try to convert them over to his doctrine, and he downplays the importance of the Sabbath. But I was unable to prove his position to be in error from the Bible, as he does not know English and cannot be shown anything from the KJV Bible. Americans take that Bible largely for granted! The newer versions from the corrupt Alexandrian manuscripts claim the law has been abolished. I weakly attempted to explain to the man that his Bible was corrupt and not to be believed (see, for example, the NIV for Ephesians 2:15 and Colossians 2:14--that's what his Chinese Bible is like). He was unpersuaded, and I had no other option. As Ellen White says, error is never harmless. We need better Bible translations in Asia....desperately!

Meanwhile, Americans think the Great Controversy is over. We are told the final movements will be rapid ones, but let me tell you, it takes time for some things. The average time taken to translate a Bible is 20 years the old way. Now, with computer support, we can cut that to about a third. But it still takes time. While, from my vantage point, it seems NAD Adventists do little more than chatter about how things are wrapping up, it amounts to talk without action.

If you want to go Home sooner, then let's put our hands, time, money, and talents where our mouth is. Get involved. There's work to be done! As Jesus said, "Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come." (Matthew 10:23) If that's how it is for the cities in Israel, what about those of the rest of the world? Don't they deserve to hear the Gospel?

Originally Posted by Ellen White
Workers are needed now. As a people, we are not doing one fiftieth of what we might do as active missionaries. If we were only vitalized by the Holy Spirit, there would be a hundred missionaries where there is now one. {MM, December 1, 1892 par. 10}


Please come over and help us!

Selah.

Green Cochoa.

That my friend was one of the best exhortations ever posted here. Thanks for investing your time, thought and soul in it for our benefit. I know I was blessed.

I intend to take all of your points to heart. But one or two thoughts for you:

There are dedicated Adventists and non-Adventists scattered in every country. Those in the wealthy (for now) west don't have the physical discomforts and direct threats of persecution that you do but they face a less receptive public, similar to Paul attempting the evangelization of the wealthy and worldly wise Athenian philosophers.

According to Christ's parable of the 10 virgins, even the five wise among us who are attempting to evangelize are asleep. But wouldn't you say it is possible that this parable also confirms what Wolhberg and others are saying: At midnight when things are very dark, a crises will break on the church that wakes all of us up, and then the lamps are trimmed and lit, the Holy Spirit is poured out and the gospel message announcing the bridgroom goes to the world "like fire in the stubble."

Re: Steve Wohlberg links SL, CC and LR (Sunday Laws, Climate Change and the Latter Rain [Re: Charity] #191354
12/09/19 11:13 AM
12/09/19 11:13 AM
His child  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Green said "God wants to come yesterday, if not sooner. He's waiting. Why is He waiting? We haven't finished the job He gave us to do"

The Spirit of prophecy tells us of the shaking, but does it link to the SL?

Quote
God's Spirit has illuminated every page of Holy Writ, but there are those upon whom it makes little impression, because it is imperfectly understood. When the shaking comes, by the introduction of false theories, these surface readers, anchored nowhere, are like shifting sand. They slide into any position to suit the tenor of their feelings of bitterness. . . . Daniel and Revelation must be studied, as well as the other prophecies of the Old and New Testaments. Let there be light, yes, light, in your dwellings. For this we need to pray. The Holy Spirit, shining upon the sacred page, will open our understanding, that we may know what is truth. . . . {TM 112.1}


Quote
If we showed a zeal proportionate to the importance of the truths we are handling we would reach hundreds. We need to trim our lamps and receive in them the holy oil from the two olive branches. When the power of the Spirit of God rests upon us, there will be an altogether different showing for our labors from that now seen. {7MR 169.1}


Quote
When the shaking comes, by the introduction of false theories, these surface readers, anchored nowhere, are like shifting sand. They slide into any position to suit the tenor of their feelings of bitterness. {11MR 206.2}


The sad point is that the professed people of God are struggling to discern between the true teachings from God from a false doctrines. The book of Jeremiah shows how difficult it was for the priests and rulers to discern between Jeremiah (true prophet) and Hananiah (false prophet). We can look back to events in his day and see the truth from our perspective but those living amidst the trying times had a very difficult challenge.


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com

Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

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