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Re: Was the election of Donald Trump inevitable? [Re: Rick H] #190880
09/16/19 01:49 PM
09/16/19 01:49 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Midland
k: So do you think
j: ask "his child"

?

Ask his child what you think?

Re: Was the election of Donald Trump inevitable? [Re: Rick H] #190883
09/16/19 04:24 PM
09/16/19 04:24 PM
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James Peterson  Offline
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well, you did mention obama returning to office for which there is only one person's reading of the tea leaves as such: 'his child'

he's an authority on the matter

Re: Was the election of Donald Trump inevitable? [Re: kland] #191600
01/26/20 12:57 PM
01/26/20 12:57 PM
Rick H  Offline
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Florida, USA
Originally Posted by kland
Then all the more you should involve yourself with the candidate which would delay the image coming about!


I think it will come despite the best attempts by men to stop it, so we need to be as it says 'wise as serpents, and harmless as doves'..

Re: Was the election of Donald Trump inevitable? [Re: James Peterson] #191616
01/27/20 05:46 AM
01/27/20 05:46 AM
His child  Offline
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Originally Posted by James Peterson
well, you did mention obama returning to office for which there is only one person's reading of the tea leaves as such: 'his child'

he's an authority on the matter


When I understood that the papal beast in Revelation 13 had duo "two horns"
I could see no other option for prophecy to be fulfilled.

The 7 heads on the papal beast were: Pius XI and XII, John XXIII, Paul VI, John-Paul I and II, and Benedict.
In the reigns of President Bush II and Pope Benedict XVI, the prophecy moved from the papal beast to the earth beast.
Since a horn is a king (Dan 7:23; 8:21-22) and the beast only had duo horns Bush II (horn one) Obama (horn 2)
I assumed that Trump had to be in office for less than a year and Obama had to come back into office.
in order for the traditional reading of duo horns (2 horns) to be correct

The traditional duo reading was incorrect.
The reading of duo as it in in Luke 10:1 (two by two or two and two) is the correct reading.

When the first beast transitioned to the earth-beast the horns were: Bush II, Obama, and Trump with one to yet come come

further study of Daniel 8 and 11 indicates that Trump will be broken
and from the four powers remaining in America (Senate, House of Reps,, Supreme Court, and presidency)
a little horn will arise that will become great toward the promised land (Israel)
He is the power identified in Daniel 11:30...

Originally Posted by EGW
In the thirtieth verse a power is spoken of that "shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant." [Verses 31-36, quoted.]


Knowing that GW was anointed the Protestant Prince of America's Covenant on the very day identified in Daniel 9
and that the Protestant Prince of America's Covenant title went from GW to Obama and on to Trump
and that duo horns indicates a fourth and final horn of the earth-beast

Daniel 12:1 explains who Michael, the Protestant Prince of America's Covenant is that comes from
America's (Senate, House of Reps,, Supreme Court, and presidency) when the Trump horn is broken.

So you can attribute my prophetic understanding as "reading tea leaves" if you so desire

But the promise is that in the endtime knowledge will increase regarding Daniel's prophecies
And if we expect to successfully make it through the Time of Trouble,

we are obligated to study the prophecies and to follow them
and if the devil can get you to believe that Bible prophecy is no more accurate than tea leaves
he is going to rejoice with great joy as he runs your clock down.

After America's Prince Michael of the Constitution stands for his people the Time of trouble morphs in Armageddon
Then Michael (Christ) will stand for us.

Originally Posted by EGW
Satan can present a counterfeit so closely resembling the truth that it deceives those who are willing to be deceived, who desire to shun the self-denial and sacrifice demanded by the truth; but it is impossible for him to hold under his power one soul who honestly desires, at whatever cost, to know the truth. Christ is the truth and the "Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." John 1:9. The Spirit of truth has been sent to guide men into all truth. And upon the authority of the Son of God it is declared: "Seek, and ye shall find." "If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine." Matthew 7:7; John 7:17. {DD 12.1}


We have arrived at the time when there will be no delaying Bible prophecy. As the fruit follows the bud on the fig tree, Michael Pence will follow Trump and the Mark of the beast will be implemented and God's people will be sealed and judgment will begin at the House of God.


Last edited by His child; 01/27/20 05:49 AM.

"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Was the election of Donald Trump inevitable? [Re: Rick H] #191618
01/27/20 10:03 AM
01/27/20 10:03 AM
Rick H  Offline
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Posts: 3,100
Florida, USA
Here is the explanation from Doug Batchelor:

"What is symbolized by its two lamb-like horns and absence of crowns?

Answer: Horns represent kings and kingdoms or governments (Daniel 7:24; 8:21). In this case, they represent the United States? two governing principles: civil and religious liberty. These two principles have also been labeled ?republicanism? (a government without a king) and ?Protestantism? (a church without a pope). Other nations since ancient times had taxed people to support a state religion. Most had also oppressed religious dissidents. But the United States established something entirely new: freedom to worship without government interference. Absence of crowns signifies a republican form of government, rather than a monarchy. Lamb-like horns denote an innocent, young, non-oppressive, peace-loving, and spiritual nation. (Jesus is referred to as a lamb 28 times in Revelation.)

Special Note: How we wish we could stop right here in Jesus? description of the United States?but we can?t, because He didn?t stop. What comes next might be jolting. The United States is a great country, with its freedom of conscience, press, speech, and enterprise; its opportunities; its sense of fair play; its sympathy for the underdog; and its Christian orientation. It is not perfect, but even still, a host of people from around the world seek to become its citizens every year. Sadly, this richly blessed country will change drastically.

What does Revelation 13:11 mean when it says the United States will speak ?like a dragon??
Answer: As you learned in Study Guide 20, the dragon is Satan, who works through various earthly powers to establish his own kingdom and to crush God?s church by persecuting and destroying God?s people. Satan?s aim always has been to usurp God?s throne and to force people to worship and obey him. (See Study Guide 2 for details.) So, speaking as a dragon means the United States (under the influence of Satan) will, in the end time, force people to worship contrary to conscience or be punished.

What specifically will the United States do that will cause it to speak as a dragon?
Answer: Notice these four crucial points:

A. ?Exercises all the authority of the first beast? (Revelation 13:12) The United States will become a persecuting power that will force people to go against their conscience, as did papal Rome?which is portrayed in the first half of Revelation chapter 13.

B. ?Causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed? (Revelation 13:12). The United States will lead the nations of the world in forcing allegiance to the papal antichrist. The issue is always worship. Who will you worship and obey? Will it be Christ, your Creator and Redeemer, or antichrist? Every soul on earth will finally worship one or the other. Satan?s approach will appear to be deeply spiritual, and incredible miracles will be seen (Revelation 13:13, 14)?which will deceive billions (Revelation 13:3). Those who refuse to join this movement will be considered divisive, stubborn, radical, and unpatriotic. Jesus labeled Protestant America of the end time a ?false prophet? (Revelation 19:20; 20:10), because it will appear spiritual and trustworthy but instead will be satanic in its conduct. All this may seem impossible, but Jesus? words are always reliable and true (Titus 1:2). He foretold the rise and fall of the four world empires and the antichrist (Daniel chapters 2 and 7) at a time when such predictions seemed outlandish and incredible. But all came to pass precisely as predicted. His warning to us today regarding prophecy is, ?I have told you before it comes, that when it does come to pass, you may believe? (John 14:29).

C. ?Telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived? (Revelation 13:14). The United States will make an image to the beast by legislating religious practice. It will pass laws requiring worship and force people to either obey them or face death. This action is a copy?or ?image??of the church-state form of government the papacy ruled with at the height of her power during the Middle Ages, when millions were slain for their faith. The United States will combine civil government and apostate Protestantism in a ?marriage? that will support the papacy. It will then influence all the nations of the world to follow her example. Thus, the papacy will gain worldwide support.

D. ?And cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed? (Revelation 13:15). The United States, as head of this international movement, will next influence the nations of the world to impose a death sentence upon all who refuse to worship the beast or his image. Another name for this worldwide coalition is ?Babylon the Great.? (See Study Guide 22 for more information.) This worldwide alliance will, in the name of Christ, substitute the policeman?s power for the Holy Spirit?s gentle persuasion?and it will force worship.

https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/study-guide/e/4998/t/the-usa-in-bible-prophecy

Re: Was the election of Donald Trump inevitable? [Re: Rick H] #191623
01/27/20 06:09 PM
01/27/20 06:09 PM
K
kland  Offline
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5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
Midland
Quote
Here is the explanation from Doug Batchelor:

"What is symbolized by its two lamb-like horns and absence of crowns?

Answer: Horns represent kings and kingdoms or governments (Daniel 7:24; 8:21). In this case, they represent the United States? two governing principles: civil and religious liberty. These two principles have also been labeled ?republicanism? (a government without a king) and ?Protestantism? (a church without a pope).
I wonder if he reads Ellen White....

Re: Was the election of Donald Trump inevitable? [Re: kland] #191629
01/28/20 12:20 PM
01/28/20 12:20 PM
His child  Offline
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Active Member 2020
Very Dedicated Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,673
TN, USA
Originally Posted by kland
Quote
Here is the explanation from Doug Batchelor:

"What is symbolized by its two lamb-like horns and absence of crowns?

Answer: Horns represent kings and kingdoms or governments (Daniel 7:24; 8:21). In this case, they represent the United States? two governing principles: civil and religious liberty. These two principles have also been labeled ?republicanism? (a government without a king) and ?Protestantism? (a church without a pope).
I wonder if he reads Ellen White....


Of course Doug got it from misreading EGW
Horns are symbolic of kings (Dan 7:24; 8:20, Rev 17:12)
The characteristics of the 2 lamblike horns are republicanism and Protestantism.
Doug should be able to differentiate between the symbol and its characteristics.
(and you should too)

Quote
horns indicate...fitly representing the character of the United States when presented to the prophet as ?coming up? in 1798. ... Republicanism and Protestantism became the fundamental principles of the nation. These principles are the secret of its power and prosperity. The oppressed and down-trodden throughout Christendom have turned to this land with interest and hope. Millions have sought its shores, and the United States has risen to a place among the most powerful nations of the earth. {GC88 441.1}


The horns are symbolic of kings (rulers)
The characteristics that identify those kings are Republicanism and Protestantism

The dou horns are (2 and 2 literal men) Bush II and Obama : Trump and Pence
The identifying features of Trump and Pence are their claims to Republicanism and Protestantism

But you do not have to look at the evidence
believe what is so clearly pointed out in prophecy
or set aside tradition as prophecy meets history;
you can wait until it is too late
and when there is no room for error (you will not be embarrassed because you made a mistake)
and hope that (I was the one making the mistake) and that you did not wait too late to be among the 5 wise virgins.


"Ignorance is sin, when knowledge can be obtained" (HR, September 1, 1866 par. 3). www.loudcry101.com
Re: Was the election of Donald Trump inevitable? [Re: His child] #191634
01/28/20 02:50 PM
01/28/20 02:50 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
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Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted by His child
Originally Posted by kland
Quote
Here is the explanation from Doug Batchelor:

"What is symbolized by its two lamb-like horns and absence of crowns?

Answer: Horns represent kings and kingdoms or governments (Daniel 7:24; 8:21). In this case, they represent the United States? two governing principles: civil and religious liberty. These two principles have also been labeled ?republicanism? (a government without a king) and ?Protestantism? (a church without a pope).
I wonder if he reads Ellen White....


Of course Doug got it from misreading EGW
Horns are symbolic of kings (Dan 7:24; 8:20, Rev 17:12)
The characteristics of the 2 lamblike horns are republicanism and Protestantism.
Doug should be able to differentiate between the symbol and its characteristics.
(and you should too)

Quote
horns indicate...fitly representing the character of the United States when presented to the prophet as ?coming up? in 1798. ... Republicanism and Protestantism became the fundamental principles of the nation. These principles are the secret of its power and prosperity. The oppressed and down-trodden throughout Christendom have turned to this land with interest and hope. Millions have sought its shores, and the United States has risen to a place among the most powerful nations of the earth. {GC88 441.1}


The horns are symbolic of kings (rulers)
The characteristics that identify those kings are Republicanism and Protestantism

The dou horns are (2 and 2 literal men) Bush II and Obama : Trump and Pence
The identifying features of Trump and Pence are their claims to Republicanism and Protestantism

But you do not have to look at the evidence
believe what is so clearly pointed out in prophecy
or set aside tradition as prophecy meets history;
you can wait until it is too late
and when there is no room for error (you will not be embarrassed because you made a mistake)
and hope that (I was the one making the mistake) and that you did not wait too late to be among the 5 wise virgins.


I still believe Ellen White, though some here already appear to be rejecting her. Doug has it right, according to her.

Originally Posted by Ellen White
?And he had two horns like a lamb.? The lamb-like horns indicate youth, innocence, and gentleness, fitly representing the character of the United States when presented to the prophet as ?coming up? in 1798. The Christian exiles who first fled to America, sought an asylum from royal oppression and priestly intolerance, and they determined to establish a government upon the broad foundation of civil and religious liberty. The Declaration of Independence sets forth the great truth that ?all men are created equal,? and endowed with the inalienable right to ?life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.? And the Constitution guarantees to the people the right of self-government, providing that representatives elected by the popular vote shall enact and administer the laws. Freedom of religious faith was also granted, every man being permitted to worship God according to the dictates of his conscience. Republicanism and Protestantism became the fundamental principles of the nation. These principles are the secret of its power and prosperity. The oppressed and down-trodden throughout Christendom have turned to this land with interest and hope. Millions have sought its shores, and the United States has risen to a place among the most powerful nations of the earth. {GC88 441.1}


Originally Posted by Ellen White
The "two horns like a lamb" well represent the character of the United States Government, as expressed in its two fundamental principles, Republicanism and Protestantism. These principles are the secret of our power and prosperity as a nation. Those who first found an asylum on the shores of America rejoiced that they had reached a country free from the arrogant claims of popery and the tyranny of kingly rule. They determined to establish a government upon the broad foundation of civil and religious liberty. {ST, November 1, 1899 par. 4}


Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Was the election of Donald Trump inevitable? [Re: Green Cochoa] #191639
01/28/20 09:58 PM
01/28/20 09:58 PM
APL  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2020

5500+ Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,368
Western, USA
Originally Posted by Green Cochoa
Originally Posted by His child
Originally Posted by kland
Quote
Here is the explanation from Doug Batchelor:

"What is symbolized by its two lamb-like horns and absence of crowns?

Answer: Horns represent kings and kingdoms or governments (Daniel 7:24; 8:21). In this case, they represent the United States? two governing principles: civil and religious liberty. These two principles have also been labeled ?republicanism? (a government without a king) and ?Protestantism? (a church without a pope).
I wonder if he reads Ellen White....


Of course Doug got it from misreading EGW
Horns are symbolic of kings (Dan 7:24; 8:20, Rev 17:12)
The characteristics of the 2 lamblike horns are republicanism and Protestantism.
Doug should be able to differentiate between the symbol and its characteristics.
(and you should too)

Quote
horns indicate...fitly representing the character of the United States when presented to the prophet as ?coming up? in 1798. ... Republicanism and Protestantism became the fundamental principles of the nation. These principles are the secret of its power and prosperity. The oppressed and down-trodden throughout Christendom have turned to this land with interest and hope. Millions have sought its shores, and the United States has risen to a place among the most powerful nations of the earth. {GC88 441.1}


The horns are symbolic of kings (rulers)
The characteristics that identify those kings are Republicanism and Protestantism

The dou horns are (2 and 2 literal men) Bush II and Obama : Trump and Pence
The identifying features of Trump and Pence are their claims to Republicanism and Protestantism

But you do not have to look at the evidence
believe what is so clearly pointed out in prophecy
or set aside tradition as prophecy meets history;
you can wait until it is too late
and when there is no room for error (you will not be embarrassed because you made a mistake)
and hope that (I was the one making the mistake) and that you did not wait too late to be among the 5 wise virgins.


I still believe Ellen White, though some here already appear to be rejecting her. Doug has it right, according to her.

Originally Posted by Ellen White
?And he had two horns like a lamb.? The lamb-like horns indicate youth, innocence, and gentleness, fitly representing the character of the United States when presented to the prophet as ?coming up? in 1798. The Christian exiles who first fled to America, sought an asylum from royal oppression and priestly intolerance, and they determined to establish a government upon the broad foundation of civil and religious liberty. The Declaration of Independence sets forth the great truth that ?all men are created equal,? and endowed with the inalienable right to ?life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.? And the Constitution guarantees to the people the right of self-government, providing that representatives elected by the popular vote shall enact and administer the laws. Freedom of religious faith was also granted, every man being permitted to worship God according to the dictates of his conscience. Republicanism and Protestantism became the fundamental principles of the nation. These principles are the secret of its power and prosperity. The oppressed and down-trodden throughout Christendom have turned to this land with interest and hope. Millions have sought its shores, and the United States has risen to a place among the most powerful nations of the earth. {GC88 441.1}


Originally Posted by Ellen White
The "two horns like a lamb" well represent the character of the United States Government, as expressed in its two fundamental principles, Republicanism and Protestantism. These principles are the secret of our power and prosperity as a nation. Those who first found an asylum on the shores of America rejoiced that they had reached a country free from the arrogant claims of popery and the tyranny of kingly rule. They determined to establish a government upon the broad foundation of civil and religious liberty. {ST, November 1, 1899 par. 4}


Blessings,

Green Cochoa.
WHY do you go against her then????From eternity there was a complete unity between the Father and the Son. They were two, yet little short of being identical; two in individuality, yet one in spirit, and heart, and character. {YI, December 16, 1897 par. 5}


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Was the election of Donald Trump inevitable? [Re: Rick H] #191651
01/30/20 04:55 AM
01/30/20 04:55 AM
dedication  Offline
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Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
So, was the election of Trump inevitable?

All this "duo" interpretation is just speculation.
Once upon a time it was Bill Clinton who was to stumble and be broken and Gore was to be president. That line of thinking changes all the time.

However, the question is interesting -- was the election of Trump inevitable?

In this the study of Daniel does give us some insight.

Daniel 2:21 "God removeth kings, and setteth up kings:
Daniel 4:17 "know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men."


Romans 13:1 ?There is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.?

These are interesting texts! Consider the verse in Romans 13:1. Paul probably wrote those words around A.D. 56-57. The emperor at the time was Nero. He had caused Christians considerable grief! Yet one does not see Paul lashing out against Nero We see no words urging impeachment. Paul was aware of Nero?s wickedness, yet he does not question why God put Nero in power.

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