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Re: Brain-damaged from Veganism, why vegans have cognitive impairment [Re: Green Cochoa] #189934
07/01/19 05:20 PM
07/01/19 05:20 PM
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Was Paul addressing health in that verse?

Re: Brain-damaged from Veganism, why vegans have cognitive impairment [Re: James Peterson] #189942
07/02/19 12:37 AM
07/02/19 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by James Peterson
Originally Posted by Rick
Because we know that todays meats and fish have been contaminated in many ways, so need to understand what we have today is not what was then.

So are your vegetables and grains. You must NOT be eating anything at all. And how about stuff in the water? You must NOT be drinking too.
///


It's true we can't escape all the pollutants in the food and water in today's world, but we can seek to limit the concentration of pollutants we intake..

Yes, plants are also contaminated. Home grown vegetables are a real blessing, store bought ones can contain quite a bit of pollutants.
But think of it this way.
Plants are on the low end of the food chain -- their accumulation and concentration of pollutants isn't as high as it is in higher levels of the food chain..

The person (or animal) that eats the plant -- ingests the contamination contained in the plant.
And yes, it is a problem -- not only to humans but also to birds, fish and animals.

But now consider that meat is on a much higher level on the food chain than those plants --
The cow eats plants -- lots of plants.
Every day the cow ingests the contamination contained in those plants
That cow eats A LOT of plants and grains (as well as being given hormones and other chemical things to help it grow fast)
A lot of the cows are fed "commercial feed" which contains "rendered meat" pushing it even higher in the food chain..
The cow has accumulated all these pollutants from many pounds of plants and "medications" and whatever pollutants were in the commercial feed, into its flesh.

Now a person eats the meat from that cow --
A plateful of its flesh has accumulated pollutants of ALL those plants, grains, and chemicals stored in its flesh -- the concentration is much, much greater.
You would have to eat at lot of meals of pure plant food, to receive the same concentration of pollutants as one meal of flesh.

Actually -- the whole pollution issue is a serious issue for humans and animals and life in general.

Re: Brain-damaged from Veganism, why vegans have cognitive impairment [Re: Green Cochoa] #189943
07/02/19 02:56 AM
07/02/19 02:56 AM
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As to Romans 14 ....

THE CONTROVERSY over meat in Paul's day -- what was it about?

1 Corinthians 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one.
8:7 However there is not in every man that knowledge: for some are very conscience of the idol unto this hour eat the meat as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
8:8 But meat commends us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.
8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours you become a stumbling block to them that are weak.
8:10 For if any man sees you have this knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols?

So Paul addresses this problem again in Romans. It isn't about Paul saying all meat is great to eat, rather
Some converts felt eating food bought in the market that was probably offered to an idol, was equivalent to worshiping the idol if they ate it.
Others, felt no affiliation with the idol, and ate their food with thanksgiving.
Paul is saying -- IF it makes one to feel like they are worshiping the idol, they should not eat the food, but if they know the idol is nothing, and are worshiping the true God, it's no problem.

Paul is dealing with a problem many people at that time were concerned about.


Paul does not give license to abusing the body --

1 Cor. 6:13 "Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body"
So those who say "meat for the belly and the belly for meat: -- both they and their belly will be destroyed..
This is then linked to fornication which is called "a sin against the body"
Philippians 3:19 "Whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things."
Thus -- we are not to sin against our body, either by making the belly our god, or with fornication, for the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.

So yes, , "the kingdom of God is NOT eating and drinking, BUT righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit"
What is righteousness? Seems Paul makes it clear that it is making the things of God first, not our belly and lusts and earthly desires.
Romans 8, Paul tells us its by the Holy Spirit the clamors of the flesh are subdued.

It's also a scientific fact and natural law, that food plays a BIG role in who and what we are, including our emotions of joy and peace -- to deny that is to deny a lot of science that confirms it to be true.


But now i need to get some sleep -- sleep deprivation is another "abuse to the body". And no, I don't need a text to know that to be true. It is part of natural law.

Re: Brain-damaged from Veganism, why vegans have cognitive impairment [Re: Green Cochoa] #191739
02/02/20 04:53 PM
02/02/20 04:53 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
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Research continues to prove the same thing: Veganism is damaging to the intellect. Consider this news:

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200127-how-a-vegan-diet-could-affect-your-intelligence

(Article pasted below)

----------------------------------------------------------

The vegan diet is low in -- or, in some cases, entirely devoid of -- several important brain nutrients. Could these shortcomings be affecting vegans' abilities to think?

By Zaria Gorvett


28th January 2020


It was the late 1880s in the city of Rajkot, India. The meeting was to take place on the banks of the local river – and discretion was essential. Mahatma Gandhi, who was just a teenager at the time, hadn’t told his parents where he was going; if they had found out, they would have been shocked to death.


As it happens, Gandhi was having a picnic. And on this occasion, India’s future national hero – and one of the most famous vegetarians in history – wasn’t planning to dine on cucumber sandwiches. No, for the first time in his life, he was going to eat meat.


As he later wrote in his biography, Gandhi was raised as a strict Vaishnava Hindu, so he had never even seen meat before this fateful day. But his picnic companion was a shady character with an unusual obsession – the idea that meat held the key to being physically and mentally strong.


In the end, Gandhi braved the meat. It was as tough as leather.   


More stories on The Vegan Factor from BBC Good Food


The idea that avoiding meat is bad for our brains makes some intuitive sense; anthropologists have been arguing about what our ancestors ate for decades, but many scientists think that there was a lot of bone-crunching and brain-slurping on the road to evolving these remarkable 1.4kg (3lb) organs. Some have even gone so far as to say that meat made us human.


One reason is that intelligence is expensive – the brain devours about 20% of our daily calories, though it accounts for just 2% of our body weight – and what better way to find the enormous array of fats, amino acids, vitamins and minerals these fastidious organs require, than by feasting on animals which have already painstakingly collected or made them.



[Image of Ghandi]

But though it’s hard to imagine our ancestors choosing turnips over tuna, today it’s a different story. According to the latest statistics, there are around 375 million vegetarians on the planet. In the West, veganism has ditched the hippie stigma to become one of the fastest-growing millennial trends; in the United States, it grew by 600% between 2014 and 2017. Meanwhile in India, meat-free diets have been mainstream since the 6th Century BCE


On the one hand, recent concern about the nutritional gaps in plant-based diets has led to a number of alarming headlines, including a warning that they can stunt brain development and cause irreversible damage to a person’s nervous system. Back in 2016, the German Society for Nutrition went so far as to categorically state that – for children, pregnant or nursing women, and adolescents – vegan diets are not recommended, which has been backed up by a 2018 review of the research. In Belgium, forcing a vegan diet on your offspring could land you a spell in prison.


But on the other, if abstaining from meat had any real impact on our brains, you would think that we would already have noticed. So is it really damaging our intellects, or is this all just fear of the unknown?


Ideally, to test the impact of the vegan diet on the brain, you would take a randomly selected group of people, ask half to stop eating animal products – then see what happens. But there isn’t a single study like this.



There are several important brain nutrients that simply do not exist in plants or fungi

Instead, the only research that comes close involved the reverse. It was conducted on 555 Kenyan schoolchildren, who were fed one of three different types of soup – one with meat, one with milk, and one with oil – or no soup at all, as a snack over seven school terms. They were tested before and after, to see how their intelligence compared. Because of their economic circumstances, the majority of the children were de facto vegetarians at the start of the study.


Surprisingly, the children who were given the soup containing meat each day seemed to have a significant edge. By the end of the study, they outperformed all the other children on a test for non-verbal reasoning. Along with the children who received soup with added oil, they also did the best on a test of arithmetic ability. Of course, more research is needed to verify if this effect is real, and if it would also apply to adults in developed countries, too. But it does raise intriguing questions about whether veganism could be holding some people back.


In fact, there are several important brain nutrients that simply do not exist in plants or fungi. Creatine, carnosine, taurine, EPA and DHA omega-3 (the third kind can be found in plants), haem iron and vitamins B12 and D3 generally only occur naturally in foods derived from animal products, though they can be synthesised in the lab or extracted from non-animal sources such as algae, bacteria or lichen, and added to supplements.


Others are found in vegan foods, but only in meagre amounts; to get the minimum amount of vitamin B6 required each day (1.3 mg) from one of the richest plant sources, potatoes, you’d have to eat about five cups’ worth (equivalent to roughly 750g or 1.6lb). Delicious, but not particularly practical.



[Image of potatoes]

And though the body can make some of these vital brain compounds from other ingredients in our diets, this ability isn’t usually enough to make up for these dietary cracks. For all of the nutrients listed above, vegetarians and vegans have been shown to have lower quantities in their bodies. In some cases, deficiency isn’t the exception – it’s completely normal.


For now, the impact these shortcomings are having on the lives of vegans is largely a mystery. But a trickle of recent studies have provided some clues – and they make for unsettling reading.


“I think there are some real repercussions to the fact that plant-based diets are taking off,” says Taylor Wallace, a food scientist and CEO of the nutrition consulting firm Think Healthy Group. “It’s not that plant-based is inherently bad, but I don't think we're educating people enough on, you know, the nutrients that are mostly derived from animal products.”


One of the most well-known challenges for vegans is getting enough vitamin B12, which is only found in animal products like eggs and meat. Other species acquire it from bacteria which live in their digestive tracts or faeces; they either absorb it directly or ingest it by snacking on their own poo, but unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at it) humans can’t do either.

Later in life, the amount of B12 in a person?s blood has been directly correlated with their IQ

“There are some tragic cases of children whose brains failed to develop because of their parents being ill-informed vegans,” says David Benton, who studies the link between our diets and brain chemistry at Swansea University. In one example, the child was unable to sit or smile. In another, they slipped into a coma.


Later in life, the amount of B12 in a person’s blood has been directly correlated with their IQ. In the elderly, one study found that the brains of those with lower B12 were six times more likely to be shrinking.


Even so, low B12 is widespread in vegans. One British study found that half of the vegans in their sample were deficient. In some parts of India, the problem is endemic – possibly as a consequence of the popularity of meat-free diets. 


Another nutrient that’s scarce in the typical vegan diet is iron. Though we often associate it with blood, iron also plays prominent role in brain development, and is essential for keeping the organ healthy throughout our lives. For example, one 2007 study found that giving young women iron supplements led to significant intellectual gains. In those whose blood iron levels increased over the course of the study, their performance on a cognitive test improved between five- and seven-fold, while participants whose haemoglobin levels went up experienced gains in their processing speed.



[Image of supplements]

It’s surprisingly easy to slip into iron deficiency, even though it makes up 80% of the inner mass of the planet we live on. Up to two billion people are thought to have a shortage of the element worldwide, making it the most common nutritional inadequacy. Vegans are particularly prone, because the form that’s most readily absorbed by the body is “haem iron”, which is only found in animal proteins. One German study found that 40% of the vegans they looked at were consuming less than the recommended daily amount.


Other common deficiencies among vegans include D3, omega-3, selenium, folate and iodine. Though the body can make D3 when the skin is exposed to sunshine, this doesn’t make up for the extra that vegans are missing from their diets. In the winter months, when the sun is weaker, omnivores living in the UK have nearly 40% more vitamin D3 in their blood than vegans.  


Of course, some of these things can easily be acquired from supplements. But others are so obscure, vegans are unlikely to have even heard of them – let alone realise they could be missing out.

The holes in our current understanding of what the brain needs to be healthy could potentially be a major problem for vegans

One example is taurine. This enigmatic amino acid is one of the most plentiful in the human brain, where it’s thought to underpin several important processes, such as regulating the number of neurons. It’s often added to caffeinated energy drinks, because of the (possibly mistaken) belief that it can provide an immediate cognitive boost.


Though there are small amounts of taurine in some dairy products, the main dietary sources are meat and seafood. “Some species have the ability to make all the taurine they need,” says Jang-Yen Wu, a biomedical scientist at Florida Atlantic University. “But humans have a very limited capacity to do this.”


For this reason, vegans tend to have less taurine in their bodies. No one has looked into how this might be affecting their cognitive abilities yet, but based on what we know about its role in the brain, Wu says vegans should be taking taurine tablets. “People can become deficient when they restrict their diets, because vegetables have no taurine content,” he says.


In fact, the holes in our current understanding of what the brain needs to be healthy could potentially be a major problem for vegans, since it’s hard to artificially add a nutrient to your diet, if scientists haven’t discovered its worth yet.



[Image of nuts]

“There are so many unknowns,” says Nathan Cofnas, a biologist from Oxford University. “And when you deviate from the typical diet for your species, to one which has not been tested and properly established to be healthy or good for the brain, you are conducting an experiment and you are taking a risk.”


Take choline: in the brain, it’s used to make acetylcholine, which is involved in a number of tasks, including relaying messages between nerve cells. It’s fundamental to our ability to think – even insects have it in their tiny brains – and the body can’t produce enough of it on its own. 


And yet: “It’s a very understudied nutrient,” says Wallace. “I believe we've only considered it essential [something you have to get from your diet] since the late 1990s.”

Recently creatine has started to attract a fanbase as a smart drug

There are small amounts of choline in lots of vegan staples, but among the richest sources are eggs, beef and seafood. In fact, even with a normal diet, 90% of Americans don’t consume enough. According to unpublished research by Wallace, vegetarians have the lowest intakes of any demographic. “They have extremely low levels of choline, to the point where it might be concerning,” he says. 


For vegans, the picture is likely to be bleaker still, since people who eat eggs tend to have almost double the choline levels of those who don’t. And though the US authorities have set suggested intakes, they might be way off.  


Wallace points to a 2018 study, which found that the babies of women who consumed twice the amount considered “adequate” – around 930mg each day – in the last third of pregnancy enjoyed a lasting cognitive edge. For comparison, the average vegetarian gets roughly a fifth of that amount.  



[Image of soybeans and soymilk]

In other cases, our understanding is even murkier.


The latest nutrient in question is creatine – a white, powdery substance often found in fitness shakes. Its natural function in the body is to supply our cells with energy, so it’s revered by gym obsessives as a way to improve their endurance.


But it’s also important to the brain – and studies have shown that increasing your intake can provide a range of benefits, such as a better recognition memory and reduced mental fatigue. Recently it’s started to gain traction as a smart drug.


It’s well-established that vegans and vegetarians have significantly lower levels in their bodies, because plants and fungi don’t contain any.


This has led scientists to wonder whether a creatine deficit could be holding some people back. For one study, researchers tested how the intelligence of vegetarians and omnivores changed after five days on supplements. “We found that the vegetarians seemed to benefit particularly,” says David Benton from Swansea University, who led the research. 


In contrast, the omnivores were relatively unaffected. This hints that, unlike the vegetarians, they already had the appropriate amount of creatine in their brains.

It can make quite a substantial difference in your life, whether your intelligence is one standard deviation above the mean or two ? Nathan Cofnas

However, Caroline Rae, who led another study, says there isn’t enough evidence to back taking creatine yet. It may come with unintended consequences, such as reducing the brain’s ability to make its own – leading to “creatine withdrawal”. “I’ve always hypothesised that it could be useful if you wanted to cram for an exam, but it would be interesting to see if people then got slower after they stopped.” 


Finally, the brain largely makes its own supply, so it’s not clear if vegans actually need any extra. Instead of being a major source, the creatine in our diets might only be used by the brain in “extreme” conditions, like when we’re stressed. 


[Image of a meaty sandwich]

Nevertheless, Cofnas finds the potential creatine deficits in vegans disturbing. “It can make quite a substantial difference in your life, whether your intelligence is one standard deviation above the mean or two,” he says, referring to the small-yet-significant intellectual gains made by vegetarians on creatine supplements.


So what’s the verdict?


“I think we need a lot more research into vegan nutrition and health,” says Heather Russell, a dietitian from The Vegan Society. “As far as we can tell, it’s possible to lead a healthy life as a vegan – certainly there are people who thrive on a vegan diet.” Though it’s important to take supplements, she explains that a person’s cardiovascular and brain health are inextricably linked, and vegans tend to have healthier hearts.


“I tell people all the time, if you're going to be a vegan or vegetarian, that's fine,” says Wallace. “I’m certainly not advocating against it. But there are 40 or something essential nutrients. So, I mean, it really would take a lot of research for vegans to get everything the brain needs,” he says. Some nutrients that a typical vegan diet is low or lacking in, like choline, creatine, carnosine and taurine, are extremely bulky, so just taking a standard vitamin tablet won’t be enough. Instead, they need to be taken individually. 

Without question, veganism can cause B12 and iron deficiencies, and without question they affect your intelligence ? Nathan Cofnas

Benton agrees. “I’m sure that if you are knowledgeable, careful, and obsessive about it – and you have all the right personality characteristics to be this way – then it is possible to have a healthy diet as a vegan,” he says. “But it is distinctly possible that you could have deficiencies.”


Cofnas takes a harsher view. Though vegans can take supplements, he thinks it’s unrealistic to expect that they all will. Consequently, he finds the recent shift towards plant-based diets troubling, though he’s sympathetic to the arguments for doing so. “Without question, veganism can cause B12 and iron deficiencies, and without question they affect your intelligence,” he says.


As for Gandhi, he eventually abandoned his illicit relationship with meat, and went back to vegetarianism. But his experiments with nutrition didn’t end there. He also ditched salt, then went back to it, and attempted veganism – though after a bout of dysentery practically reduced him to a living skeleton, he decided that milk products were necessary, in order for a person to be healthy.


Whatever the truth is, isn’t it about time we found out?


An earlier version of this article stated omega-3 generally only occurs in animal products. The article has been corrected to make clear there are three types of omega-3 fatty acids and that one of these, ALA, can be found in plants.


--



Last edited by Green Cochoa; 02/02/20 05:15 PM. Reason: Had to remove images

We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Brain-damaged from Veganism, why vegans have cognitive impairment [Re: Green Cochoa] #191740
02/03/20 03:47 AM
02/03/20 03:47 AM
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jackson  Offline
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Oregon, USA
A whole plant based diet is deficient in only one ingredient - vitamin B-12.

Vegans can get vitamin B-12 either as a supplement in pill form, by eating B-12 enriched foods, or by not washing your garden produce. Of course, B-12 supplementation is by far the simplest route In extreme cases of neglect, a B-12 injection may be called for

Here is a short video on why many vegetarians get cognitive imparment and why a vegetarian who supplements with B-12 is healthier and wiser than a meat eater.

l https://nutritionfacts.org/video/flashback-friday-preventing-brain-loss-with-b-vitamins/

It has been clearly presented to me that God's people are to take a firm stand against meat eating. By the use of flesh meats the animal nature is strengthened and the spiritual nature weakened. {CD 383.1}

Note of caution:
The question whether we shall eat butter, meat, or cheese, is not to be presented to anyone as a test, but we are to educate and to show the evils of the things that are objectionable. Those who gather up these things and drive them upon others do not know what work they are doing. .... { 3Selected Messages p 287.1}


There is no greater deception than for man to suppose that in any difficulty he can find a better guide than God, a wiser counselor in any emergency, a stronger defense under any circumstance.... Ellen White
Re: Brain-damaged from Veganism, why vegans have cognitive impairment [Re: jackson] #191741
02/03/20 04:22 AM
02/03/20 04:22 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by jackson
A whole plant based diet is deficient in only one ingredient - vitamin B-12.


We cannot make any statement like this with certainty. It is not possible to prove. We simply do not know everything regarding the body's requirements, and we are still learning. There are many things present in animal products that are not present in a vegan diet. The article brought out several of them. Even the Bible directs us to eat a little honey (an animal product), and many use it as a natural remedy--but a pure vegan would eschew it. Canaan was "a land flowing with milk and honey," according to the Bible--BOTH animal products. Mrs. White has told us plainly that milk or cream, added to fruits, grains, and nuts, is part of "the most healthful diet."

Originally Posted by Ellen White
God has furnished man with abundant means for the gratification of an unperverted appetite. He has spread before him the products of the earth, ? a bountiful variety of food that is palatable to the taste and nutritious to the system. Of these our benevolent heavenly Father says we may freely eat. Fruits, grains, and vegetables, prepared in a simple way, free from spice and grease of all kinds, make, with milk or cream, the most healthful diet. They impart nourishment to the body, and give a power of endurance and a vigor of intellect that are not produced by a stimulating diet. {CTBH 47.1}


I would suggest that the article I posted above has some good points to offer. It is also incomplete, and does not draw a clear line between flesh foods and things like milk and eggs which Mrs. White tells us should not be classed with flesh foods. Mrs. White recommended eggs as a natural remedy for many ailments, and told us that it has properties to counteract certain poisons.

One thing eggs have, that is deficient in a vegan diet, is sulfur. Sulfur counteracts elemental poisons like arsenic, etc. To get the same amount of sulfur as one would find in an ounce of egg would mean consuming eight ounces of garlic--and I don't know many people who eat mashed garlic as their main dish. Garlic is the vegan food richest in sulfur.

James tells us that every good gift and every perfect gift is from above. God gives perfect gifts. And God has promised to give us honey.

Originally Posted by Ellen White
If they would keep His commandments, God promised to give them the finest of the wheat, and bring them honey out of the rock. With long life would He satisfy them, and show them His salvation. {COL 289.1}


Mrs. White was balanced. She did not promote meat-eating; but she did not promote veganism either. Both of these, according to her, would result in death.

Originally Posted by jackson
Vegans can get vitamin B-12 either as a supplement in pill form, by eating B-12 enriched foods, or by not washing your garden produce. Of course, B-12 supplementation is by far the simplest route In extreme cases of neglect, a B-12 injection may be called for


Most vegans are sufficiently unaware of the facts about vitamin B-12 as to know only enough to harm themselves. The truth is, the so-called "fortified" foods that contain B-12 are not helping them. The more they trust such to supply the lack in their own impoverished diet, the more likely they will come to harm as the B-12 is entirely inadequate to their needs. Fortified foods contain cyanocobalamin, which is almost entirely ineffective. To obtain a useful form of the vitamin, one should look for methylcobalamin, or adenosylcobalamin, both much more expensive supplemental forms. And, to negate the need of intrinsic factor, the injected form is far more effective. The GI tract vastly limits the amount of vitamin B-12 that can be absorbed in a single day, and this is limited further when stomach acid and/or intrinsic factor is in short supply.

Originally Posted by jackson
Here is a short video on why many vegetarians get cognitive imparment and why a vegetarian who supplements with B-12 is healthier and wiser than a meat eater.

l https://nutritionfacts.org/video/flashback-friday-preventing-brain-loss-with-b-vitamins/

It has been clearly presented to me that God's people are to take a firm stand against meat eating. By the use of flesh meats the animal nature is strengthened and the spiritual nature weakened. {CD 383.1}

Note of caution:
The question whether we shall eat butter, meat, or cheese, is not to be presented to anyone as a test, but we are to educate and to show the evils of the things that are objectionable. Those who gather up these things and drive them upon others do not know what work they are doing. .... { 3Selected Messages p 287.1}


That's a good video. And thank you for those great quotes, as well.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Brain-damaged from Veganism, why vegans have cognitive impairment [Re: Green Cochoa] #191743
02/03/20 02:30 PM
02/03/20 02:30 PM
K
kland  Offline
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You can get all the fiber you need by eating one egg a day.

Re: Brain-damaged from Veganism, why vegans have cognitive impairment [Re: kland] #191744
02/03/20 04:30 PM
02/03/20 04:30 PM
J
jackson  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 19
Oregon, USA
Kland, perhaps you were joking, but there is no fiber in eggs. There is no fiber in any animal food.


There is no greater deception than for man to suppose that in any difficulty he can find a better guide than God, a wiser counselor in any emergency, a stronger defense under any circumstance.... Ellen White
Re: Brain-damaged from Veganism, why vegans have cognitive impairment [Re: Green Cochoa] #191745
02/03/20 05:21 PM
02/03/20 05:21 PM
J
jackson  Offline
Posting New Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 19
Oregon, USA

Green Cochoa said:
Quote
We cannot make any statement like this with certainty. It is not possible to prove. We simply do not know everything regarding the body's requirements, and we are still learning. There are many things present in animal products that are not present in a vegan diet
.

I think milk and eggs as remedial agents are fine, but should not be part of a steady diet.

The Lord intends to bring His people back to live upon simple fruits, vegetables, and grains. {CDF 322.5}

In choosing man's food in Eden, the Lord showed what was the best diet; CDF 374



Green Cochoa said:
Quote
Mrs. White recommended eggs as a natural remedy for many ailments, and told us that it has properties to counteract certain poisons.



I agree, but, again, I think eggs should be used for remedial purposes only. There are too many negative health aspects to eggs for them to be consumed on a regular basis.

This short video describes one of the dangers of regular egg consumption.

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/eggs-choline-and-cancer/


Green Cochoa said:
Quote
One thing eggs have, that is deficient in a vegan diet, is sulfur. Sulfur counteracts elemental poisons like arsenic, etc. To get the same amount of sulfur as one would find in an ounce of egg would mean consuming eight ounces of garlic
-


Cauliflower, onions, garlic, shallots, and cruciferous vegetables like Brussels sprouts, kale, mustard greens, and cabbage are also good sources of sulfur.

These vegetables also have the many phytonutrients and fiber that are lacking in eggs

Green Cochoa said:
Quote
Mrs. White was balanced. She did not promote meat-eating; but she did not promote veganism either. Both of these, according to her, would result in death.


Not only did she not promote meat eating, but flesh foods were to be discarded.
The original diet as stated in Gen 1:29 was to be our diet in these end times..

In choosing man's food in Eden, the Lord showed what was the best diet; CDF 374

?The light that God has given and will continue to give on the food question is to be to His people today what the manna was to the children of Israel.? CDF p269.1


There is no greater deception than for man to suppose that in any difficulty he can find a better guide than God, a wiser counselor in any emergency, a stronger defense under any circumstance.... Ellen White
Re: Brain-damaged from Veganism, why vegans have cognitive impairment [Re: jackson] #191747
02/03/20 07:44 PM
02/03/20 07:44 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted by jackson

Green Cochoa said:
Quote
We cannot make any statement like this with certainty. It is not possible to prove. We simply do not know everything regarding the body's requirements, and we are still learning. There are many things present in animal products that are not present in a vegan diet
.

I think milk and eggs as remedial agents are fine, but should not be part of a steady diet.

The Lord intends to bring His people back to live upon simple fruits, vegetables, and grains. {CDF 322.5}

In choosing man's food in Eden, the Lord showed what was the best diet; CDF 374



Green Cochoa said:
Quote
Mrs. White recommended eggs as a natural remedy for many ailments, and told us that it has properties to counteract certain poisons.



I agree, but, again, I think eggs should be used for remedial purposes only. There are too many negative health aspects to eggs for them to be consumed on a regular basis.

This short video describes one of the dangers of regular egg consumption.

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/eggs-choline-and-cancer/


Green Cochoa said:
Quote
One thing eggs have, that is deficient in a vegan diet, is sulfur. Sulfur counteracts elemental poisons like arsenic, etc. To get the same amount of sulfur as one would find in an ounce of egg would mean consuming eight ounces of garlic
-


Cauliflower, onions, garlic, shallots, and cruciferous vegetables like Brussels sprouts, kale, mustard greens, and cabbage are also good sources of sulfur.

These vegetables also have the many phytonutrients and fiber that are lacking in eggs

Green Cochoa said:
Quote
Mrs. White was balanced. She did not promote meat-eating; but she did not promote veganism either. Both of these, according to her, would result in death.


Not only did she not promote meat eating, but flesh foods were to be discarded.
The original diet as stated in Gen 1:29 was to be our diet in these end times..

In choosing man's food in Eden, the Lord showed what was the best diet; CDF 374

?The light that God has given and will continue to give on the food question is to be to His people today what the manna was to the children of Israel.? CDF p269.1


Jackson,

Have you discarded the objectionable nuts and vegetables yet, or are you still eating potatoes?

Originally Posted by Ellen White
347. Grains and fruits prepared free from grease, and in as natural a condition as possible, should be the food for the tables of all who claim to be preparing for translation to heaven.--T., V. II, p. 352. {HL 78.5}


Perhaps your world is an ideal and perfect one. I live in a rather different environment. Over here, the fruits and vegetables I buy at the market may have been sprayed for cockroaches during the night. Even the tofu on sale at the market was made by some chemical process that used things of which the FDA would never approve--I know one individual who gets very sick every time he eats any of it. There is next to no regulation of chemicals where I live, and the exposure to toxins is constant. When I try to reduce my consumption of eggs, I start having health problems like headaches, weakening of the stomach, fatigue, etc. -- all from the buildup of toxins that the eggs are not helping to remove. The exposure to environmental toxins here is chronic--we are constantly bombarded by them. Lately, smog has been a big problem here. There have been times when my location was considered by the online statistics to be that with the lowest air quality in the world at that moment (it changes and is updated constantly).

Mrs. White ate eggs to her dying day. In her last months of life, it's nearly all she ate. Dr. Kress was instructed by her to eat eggs for health--he followed her advice and ate eggs every day the rest of his life, living well into his eighties on account of it, a story which was recorded for posterity.

But thinking that you need only to eat an egg once in awhile, as a remedy when sick, shows lack of knowledge about the key nutrient which you acknowledged must come from an animal source: vitamin B-12. In order to absorb B-12 in the intestines, it must be joined to intrinsic factor in the stomach. Intrinsic factor is limited. If you take 500 mcg of vitamin B-12 as a supplement, you might get, say, 10 mcg of absorption into the body from it--if everything is working very well. If you take 2,400 mcg of B-12, your absorption might go up to 14 mcg. (The actual amount would vary from person to person and is dependent on levels of intrinsic factor.) The reason dosages are usually at that higher end in supplements is to try to maximize how much a person actually will get from it. If you went up to 5,000 mcg, you might still get very little more than 15 mcg absorption. Basically, you would be maxed out at that point, on account of the daily limit for intrinsic factor. We can bypass the need of intrinsic factor by injecting the vitamin directly into the body. If we inject 1,000 mcg into the body, absorption / retention of the B-12 can go up to about 150 mcg, which is more than ten times the amount absorbable through the stomach.

If you would like to see some researched scientific evidence to back up my statements here, take a look at the following article:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2532799/

Ellen White's writings are just as true today as they always were. She said:

Originally Posted by Ellen White
The time will come when we may have to discard some of the articles of diet we now use, such as milk and cream and eggs; but my message is that you must not bring yourself to a time of trouble beforehand, and thus afflict yourself with death. Wait till the Lord prepares the way before you. {TSDF 120.10}

I assure you that your ideas in regard to diet for the sick are not advisable. The change is too great. While I would discard flesh-meat as injurious, something less objectionable may be used, and this is found in eggs. Do not remove milk from the table or forbid it being used in the cooking of food. The milk used should be procured from healthy cows, and should be sterilized. {TSDF 120.11}

The time will come when milk can not be used as freely as it is now used; but the present is not the time to discard it.... {TSDF 120.12}

But I wish to say that when the time comes that it is no longer safe to use milk, cream, butter, and eggs, God will reveal this. No extremes in health reform are to be advocated. The question of using milk and butter and eggs will work out its own problem. At present we have no burden on this line. Let your moderation be known unto all men. {TSDF 120.13}


Even in speaking of the time when it will be less safe to use milk and eggs, Mrs. White didn't advocate giving up the milk entirely; she says, instead, that it will be used less freely.

The question stands open to every Adveganist today: Has God revealed to you that it is now time to give up the use of milk and eggs?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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