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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #192175
03/30/20 10:47 PM
03/30/20 10:47 PM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 484
Michigan, US
Thanks for your response, Daryl. To answer your question, I want you to see the structure of the book of Revelation. I will share with you a simple overview that might help you to see it.

Chapter 1-3 vision is the Seven Churches.
Chapter 4-5 vision conveys Universal Investigative Judgement in heaven for those who will be sealed by the blood of Christ. In other words, whoever professes that he/she is Christian the heaven has to investigate that prior to the sealing of God.
Chapter 6-7 vision is the Seven Seals.
Chapter 8-11 vision is the Seven Trumpets.
Chapter 12-14 vision is unmasking Satan's identity.
Chapter 15-16 vision is the Seven Plagues.
Chapter 17-18 vision is the collapse of the Spiritual Babylon.
Chapter 19 vision is the Second Coming of Jesus.
Chapter 20 vision is the Reviewing the Judgment.
Chapter 21-22 vision is the New Jerusalem.

The development of the visions is significant as it progresses. It is not just organized randomly, but it reveals a progression. For example, without the investigative judgment in heaven upon the seven churches, the sealing of God can't happen.
Without the collapse of the spiritual Babylon, Jesus' Second Coming will not occur. Without unmasking the Satan's identity, God will not pour out the seven last plagues in full measure. In this sense, I believe that the event of the seven trumpets has to transpire when the seventh seal opens.

One thing I know is that Ellen G White never attempted to exposit the book of Revelation, though she often referred to the book in her writing.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #192199
04/03/20 12:56 PM
04/03/20 12:56 PM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 484
Michigan, US
The vision of unmasking Satan's identity is one vision. The structure is designed for us to see Satan's strategy. Dragon represents Satan who has seven heads and ten horns, which parallel with the seven churches. Each head of the dragon is his brain power to destroy the seven churches.

Rev.12:3 "And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads."

Jesus promises to His people, "be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." The dragon wills to take away this crown that Jesus promised to give to the believers. Notice that upon the dragon's seven heads, he wears seven crowns which represent his scheme against the seven churches (Rev. 12:3).

Jesus alarms us of the Satan's aim upon the seven churches: "Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast., that no man take thy crown" (Rev. 3:11).

Satan employs an agent to accomplish his attempt, which is the beast of Chapter 13. Notice that the beast has the same feature as the dragon: "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy"(Rev. 13:1).

Dragon=> seven heads with crowns upon them and ten horns
Beast => seven heads and ten horns with crowns upon them

The beast of chapter 13 represents the Papacy who would work out the dragon's seven heads: "the dragon gave him his power (religious), and his seat (politic), and great authority (economy)" (Rev. 13:2).

God's remnant exposes the secrets of the enemy in Chapter 14 through the 3 angels message. This section of the unmasking Satan's identity has connections to various facets of the other visions. However, a significant vision of the connection is in chapter 17-18 that conveys the fall of spiritual Babylon.

Notice, the seven heads and the ten horns are twice mentioned in chapter 17: "full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns" and "I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns" (Rev. 17:3, 7).

Please keep in mind your understanding eye on the texts that connects to a full exposure of the beast and the dragon. The " seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth" (Rev. 17:9). The dragon's brain power (the seven heads) against the seven churches appears like mountain size of the power that no one can defeat: "who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?" (Rev. 13:4).

Upon the seven mountains, the great whore sits and causes people to fornicate with her: "I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters" (Rev. 17:1) and "the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication" (Rev. 17:2). The beast is the harlot that has a name, "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH " (Rev. 17:5).

Her fornication represents, not only with her false doctrines, but through the economic power. She MAKES the kings of the earth and the inhabitants of the earth to drink the cup of her fornication: "have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication" (Rev. 17:2). Isn't that so true that in today's world you have to borrow, borrow money to survive? Many people commit suicide in their hopelessness: "I saw the woman drunken with the blood" (Rev. 17:6) and "in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth" (Rev. 18:24).

"For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication..." (Rev. 18:3).

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #192244
04/08/20 11:13 AM
04/08/20 11:13 AM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 484
Michigan, US
God's people ought not be so blind to the knowledge of the beast's doing that he makes the inhabitants to drink "the wine of the wrath of her fornication" through economic means. I believe the Paycheck Protection Program for Covid-19 crisis come far short to reconstruct the loss even with "forgiveness loan" program. Many are encouraged to take some more loan to survive the immediate troubles. I believe this is only the exercise for the worst one to come. The cup of the wrath of her fornication "made" the inhabitants to drink it. In this sense, the ten horns have the ten crowns to conquer the kings of the earth and inhabitants of the world through the economic power that the beast has.

Quote
Rev. 18:3 says, "For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies."


Notice that there are 29 merchandises in her authority to cause people to fornicate with:
Quote
"The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men" (Rev. 18:12-13).


The last merchandise item is "souls of men" to merchandise with. The beast plays corruption with the powers of the ten horns and his intention is seen through the ten crowns upon his ten horns.

Who is this beast? It is "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit" (Rev. 17:8). This beast ascended out of the bottomless pit and is the angel of destruction. "And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit" (Rev. 9:11).

Notice that the beast is described as the entity of the past, present and future which corresponds with the seven churches. The seven churches represent Christian era with the past, present and future: "John to the seven churches ... from him which is, and which was, and which is to come" (Rev. 1:4).






Last edited by Karen Y; 04/08/20 11:14 AM.
Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #192297
04/17/20 09:12 AM
04/17/20 09:12 AM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
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Active Member 2023

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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 484
Michigan, US
"Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come." (Rev. 18:10).

"And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning." (Rev. 18:9).

This world is controlled by one power that became the "great city Babylon" and the destruction is happening right before our eyes! Ask any economist whether the current situation of the economy portrays this fact related to Covid-19 pandemic or not, they will tell us that the world economy is at a great stake.

Do the merchants of the world crying and "standing afar off for the fear of her torment" now? Yes! Bible says somebody made them to commit fornication with the harlot! Rev. 18:9 says, "the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her." Who is "her"?

Revelation says, "Come hither; I will shew unto thee" (Rev. 17:1) who is this "great whore that sitters upon many waters"(Rev. 17:1). The Bible interprets itself. This harlot woman is "arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication" (Rev. 17:4). This is none other than the Papacy who has the control of the world's bank to cause "the kings of the earth" to commit fornication. The world banks of I.B.R.D. and I.M.F are controlled by Catholic and "the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication" (Rev. 17:2). The prediction of the prophecy is very clear that the fornication is through an economy deception of the great city Babylon, which is instigated by the harlot.

Do we need further clarification about the harlot? "The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues" (Rev. 17:15). "And the woman which thou safest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth" (Rev. 17:18).

Although the harlot woman brings the whole world to destruction, it will only until God's permission: "For God hath put in their hearts to fulfill his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled" (Rev. 17:17).

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #192359
04/29/20 08:59 AM
04/29/20 08:59 AM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 484
Michigan, US
Who is the dragon that gave authority to the beast? Symbolically the dragon is Satan (Rev. 12:9). This dragon and his evil angels (they) "worship the beast" (Rev. 13:4). In Greek, the word 'worship' means to serve. The dragon serves the beast and saying, "Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?" (Rev. 13:4).
A careful reading of the text in Rev. 13:4 portrays that the beast serves (worships) "the dragon who gave authority" to him (the beast).

The dragon (Satan) gave him (the beast) his power (religious power), his throne (political power), and great authority (economic power). See Rev. 13:2b.
Notice, with these powers the beast "make war with the saints and to overcome them" (13:7a) and he has authority over "every tribe, tongue, and nation" (13:7b).

The saints of the Lord are not going to surrender whatsoever the oppression of the beast is severe: "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death" (Rev. 12:11).

The second beast that rose from the earth helps the beast (the Papacy) with "all the authority" (13:12) to make the inhabitants to drink with "the wine of her fornication," which is through the economic means: "that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name" (13:17).

We are already hearing so many despair people commit suicide due to the lock-down of Covid-19 over the past months. Economy disaster kills people. The beast, the harlot, has the authority over the economy power. Notice that the beast of the sea has an intentionality to overcome the inhabitants of the earth which depicted by the crowns "on his horns" (13:1). The beast has seven heads and ten horns and upon his horns ten crowns (13:1, 17:3,7).

In Rev. 17:12, the text interprets the ten horns as: "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast." Notice that the ten kings desire to receive a kingdom from the beast which make them to cooperate with him. Nevertheless, the kings of the earth will change their mind ultimately to kill the beast: "And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire" (17:16). In other words, the Papacy will die in the hands of his comrade.

What made the kings of the earth to recognize that they were deceived by the beast? They were used to be "one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast" (17:13). They were involved in the world's economy that the beast controls: "With whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication" (17:2).

I believe that God's remnant people have to tell the world with "having great authority, and the earth was illuminated with his glory" (18:1), then the kings of the earth will realize that they were deceived. What is the message that we need to proclaim? Revelation says "But in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets" (10:7). It is the seven trumpets' message. Remember that the word seven depicts complete, full. The seven trumpets is the complete message of Jesus' intercession which will come to the end. In other words, the probation will end with the loud cry of the seven trumpets.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #192360
04/30/20 01:43 PM
04/30/20 01:43 PM
APL  Offline
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkwAlxCwGrM&list=PL9sWFi_84ZuF-sUnI5YU26uRMECzvjouK

The most interesting take of the only the trumpets, but also the churches. seals, and bowls and in between.


Oh, that men might open their minds to know God as he is revealed in his Son! {ST, January 20, 1890}
Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #192361
04/30/20 10:05 PM
04/30/20 10:05 PM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 484
Michigan, US
Which commandment is longest out of ten? Of course, it is the fourth commandment. Anyone can tell even at one glance. Is God emphasizing an importance for the Sabbath with more words? Yes, not only that, He said, "remember" to the fourth.

The Sabbath law is eternal as God is. Everything need to be measured up with the Sabbath as a plummet line: Zech. 4:10 "For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the Lord, which run to and fro through the whole earth." We are told not to despise the Sabbath as "the day of small things."

Likewise, when I observe the words count in the plagues, the seals, the churches, and the trumpets, I recognize a relationship of correlation as well as a particular importance. The sixth plagues conveys that the purpose of ecumenism is to attack the Sabbath and against the seal of God. The theme of the sixth seal indicates the Second Coming of Jesus, which will happen at a global controversy of the Sabbath.The fourth church of Thyatira has the most words count and the woman Jezebel who represents the origin of Baal worship (Sun worship) is mentioned. Who instigate all this unprecedented enforcement of the Sunday law? The fifth trumpet has the most words count which tells that the Papacy is tormenting those who did not receive the seal of God (Rev. 9:1-11). You may notice this observation at your one glance of the words count.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #192411
05/10/20 03:12 PM
05/10/20 03:12 PM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
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Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 484
Michigan, US
I have been considering a relationship between the Law and the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
The first commandment says, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" (Exo. 20:3).
In the first plague, it indicates that those who receive the mark of the beast are the ones who worship the image of the beast. (See Rev. 16:2).

How can we become a conquerer and not receive the Mark of the Beast? We must behold Jesus Christ as He conquered as in the white horse, which is the imagery of the first seal.(Rev. 6:1-2).
In the first church, Ephesus, the church lost the "first love" and Satan tempts churches through those who profess to be apostles, but liars (Rev. 2:4,2).

Have you considered why "a noisome and grievous sore upon the men" who receive the Mark of the Beast and worship his image?
1 Tim 4:1-5 tells us the answer that the false teachers said the lies regarding the God's commandment of food and said no need for any discretion.

Quote
"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer." 1 Tim. 4:1-5


The Bible clearly said,
Quote
"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's" (1 Cor. 6:19-20).


The devil's teaching made to eat anything without discretion, so malignant sore broke out. In the first church period, apostle preached earnestly to obey and trust the Lord's commandment. As the first seal depicts, the bow pricked the hearts of the people and they cried out, "they were pricked in their heart...they were pricked in their heart?"(Acts 2:37).

Apostle clearly sent out the message:
Quote
"But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood" (Acts 15:20).


There is a relationship between the malignant sore(first plague) and "the hail and fire mingled with blood" (first trumpet). In the first trumpet, health problem is depicted as it mentions the association with "blood" and 1/3 people dying, which represented symbolically by trees and all green grass that burnt up ( Rev. 8:7).

In Leviticus 11, unclean foods are classified to prevent malignant sore.

God's power is manifested in the Law and Revelation which lead us to live in the light of the truth. Prov. 3:17, 16 says,
Quote
"Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace. Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour."


1st Commandment (Exo. 20:3); worship other gods
1st Plague (Rev. 16:2); malignant sore
1st Seal (Rev. 6:1-2); conquering and conquer
1st Church (Rev. 2:1-7); self-professed apostle
1st Trumpet (Rev. 8:7); the hail and fire mixed with blood

Quote
Matt. 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #192458
05/26/20 01:45 PM
05/26/20 01:45 PM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 484
Michigan, US
The Law and the Revelation: Second Series

2nd Commandment: "You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything" (Exo. 20:3 NIV).

2nd Plague: "The second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it turned into blood like that of a dead person, and every living thing in the sea died" (Rev. 16:3).

2nd Seal: "When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, ?Come!? Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make people kill each other. To him was given a large sword" (Rev. 6:3-4).

2nd Church: "?To the angel of the church in Smyrna ....(Rev. 2:8-11)." The theme for the second church is martyrdom.

2nd Trumpet: "The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood, a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed" (Rev. 8:8-9).

The big cities are by the seashore and the sea turns to blood due to idolatry. The hotbed of crime is in the big cities such as New York, London, Shanghai China, Tokyo Japan, In-cheon South Korea, etc. The cause of the bloody water in the sea is the consequence of martyrdom of people. The destruction of the ships is the consequence of the idolatry. We can see through the law and the revelation. Anything that impede the light of the truth and allegiance of our hearts for the love of God are idolatry such could be the money, prestige, children, tradition, culture etc.

We see the merchandise of cruise ships cry these days in the time of Covid-19 "alas, alas": "and cry out:

??Woe! Woe to you, great city,
dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet,
and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls!
In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!?
?Every sea captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living from the sea, will stand far off" (Rev. 18:16-17).

Revelation predicted "Babylon is fallen, is fallen" and one of the clue signs is the cruise ships as the second trumpet announced.

Colosian 3:5 "Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry."

In a time like these, God's people discern as the time of the end, but the wicked think as the perfect time to enjoy the pleasures of sin of idolatry.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #192500
06/10/20 11:41 AM
06/10/20 11:41 AM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 484
Michigan, US
The Law and the Revelation: third Series

Third Commandment: "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain" (Ex. 20:7). The key word is the holy name of the Lord.

Third Plague: "And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments" (Rev. 16:4-7). The drinking water turned to blood.

Third Seal: "And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine" (Rev. 6:5-6). The concept here is buying and selling.

Third Church: The church of Pergamos (Rev. 2:12-17). This church represents compromise.

Third Trumpet: The trumpet warning of coming plague upon the drinking water (Rev. 8:10-11).

Our body is 70% composed of water. One of Satan's greatest attack is upon our body for he knows that feeble body weakens to bring the glory to the name of God.

The angel of the waters says, "For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink." The reason that the water turns to blood is due to the shedding of the blood of the saints.

A life is in the blood: the life is in the health of the body. If we practice the law of health, we will have a long life. In modern days, the trouble we face is the health of our body.

Consider the 3rd plague and the 3rd trumpet, it speaks about the health of our body.
There is a direct connection between third commandment and the third plague that are about the name of the Lord.

In our dealing with buying or selling and give or take, let us not call God's name in vain, which causes to shed the blood of others.

The discourse of the angel in the third plague hints us to consider the cause and effect of the third plague, as well as the other plagues. The interpretation should be approached through the same principle.

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Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
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