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The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick #192515
06/12/20 06:23 PM
06/12/20 06:23 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient

Mrs. White was at campmeeting with "a burning fever" (see 20MR 358.3). She both attended and spoke at campmeeting, where many people were assembled together, while "she was sick and hoarse with a bad cold" (7MR 288.4). Of one campmeeting where she was staying in a tent, she writes: "I was not well any of the time. My cold was very severe. The discharges from my head were fearful, yet I labored carefully and did not break down. I had very great freedom in speaking. The Lord has sustained me." {5MR 59.1}

Obviously, Mrs. White herself would have been turned away at the door of most of our churches today--at least while she was sick, and she was sick quite a lot.

While God's prophets can speak with a severe cold, and receive no instruction from God that they should self-isolate, nor that any "lesser" citizen of God's kingdom should do so when sick; while Ellen White writes copiously on the subject of health, and yet says nothing at all on the topic of "social distancing," or the closure of churches, or the cancelation of meetings because one attendee might be sick; and while the Bible says we should not forsake the assembling of ourselves together, especially as we see the end drawing near (see Hebrews 10:25)--our church leaders have decided, without any support from a "thus saith the Lord," to promote the fear-driven campaign of the government.

And Ellen White, almost uncharacteristically, criticized the government's procedures relative to quarantine in her day. She writes about the fumigation "farce" to which she was subjected.

Originally Posted by Ellen White
We entered San Francisco Harbor at ten o?clock Thursday night. The steamer anchored in the harbor till the morning, and then a tug boat took the Sydney passengers to the quarantine station. We went through the farce, for such it was, of having the things in our trunks fumigated. But the first class passengers were not so strictly dealt with as those of the second-class, and I belonged to the first-class. The clergyman I have referred to was helplessly drunk when we reached the quarantine station, and two men carried him to a room in the restaurant. There he lay on a settee, while [his] wife bathed his head. {Lt133-1900.11}



Willie White, Ellen White's son, had his own comments regarding quarantine (in those days it was for the smallpox), as revealed in the Ellen White biographical resources:

Quote
On Sunday morning, their fourth day out, the Moana was steaming down the east coast of New Zealand, past Great Barrier Island and into Auckland harbor. At ten-thirty the ship dropped anchor opposite the quarantine station. Some of the sailors rowed over in a small boat, leaving the passengers in suspense about the possibility of going ashore. Willie was disappointed because he had hoped to see some of his friends from Auckland. ?Here we lie,? he wrote. ?We cannot go ashore, and thus far no one has come to speak to us. It is a big lot of humbug, this quarantine business.??15 WCW, p. 861. {5BIO 18.1}


"A big lot of humbug"! Interesting wording--certainly this shows his feelings about it. I'm sure if his mother had favored quarantines, he might not have expressed things this way, for Willie White very much followed her instruction--and they were traveling together by ship when both of their comments were made; Willie with his wife and children.

The Webster's 1913 Dictionary has this definition:

Originally Posted by Webster's 1913 Dictionary
Hum′bug′, n. [Prob. fr. hum to impose on, deceive + bug a frightful object.] 1. An imposition under fair pretenses; something contrived in order to deceive and mislead; a trick by cajolery; a hoax.
2. A spirit of deception; cajolery; trickishness.
3. One who deceives or misleads; a deceitful or trickish fellow; an impostor. Sir J. Stephen.


So both Willie and Ellen White thought of such things as fumigation and quarantine as being of no value--deceptive, even.

Something to think about.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick [Re: Green Cochoa] #192516
06/12/20 08:52 PM
06/12/20 08:52 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Midland
Lockdown, the greatest 21st century hoax!

Green, While I believe we all know this lockdown social distancing was a made up hoax, do you find anywhere that Ellen White defied such quarantine rules?

As an aside, do you realize some get a few inches more (or less) requirements? 2 meters < > 6 feet. Which is the correct distance, that is, has it been scientifically tested? I highly doubt it.

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick [Re: Green Cochoa] #192517
06/12/20 09:00 PM
06/12/20 09:00 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Midland
Germ theory or soil theory?

Sounds like Ellen White believed in the soil/terrain theory.

Coronavirus Crisis Reopens 150-Year-Old Controversy

Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick [Re: Green Cochoa] #192527
06/13/20 10:48 AM
06/13/20 10:48 AM
T
Theophilus  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 94
Florida. USA
Well, whatever, lockdown and quarantine were working until folks decided enough was enough. now the numbers are increasing again.
Cant for the life of me understand what you two are on about. If someone is ill, and it's contagious, and you get around them, there a good possibility you will get whatever it is, unless perhaps your immune system is strong. That is how stuff spreads--c'mon. We don't sneeze on people, we cover our mouths when we cough, we wash our hands. There is a reason for doing those. How is lockdown hurting--it isn't. And social distancing is fine-this thing is respiratory--sneezing or coughing spreads it.
Look at the numbers in the US-- we have a ton of positive tests. It went down, now it's going back up because a lot of people in this country think their rights are being violated if they have to wear a mask--it is ridiculous. How did New Zealand get to zero? Were they picked out to make it look like the "hoax" is legit? Sneaky, sneaky. laugh
While we're at it, I don't understand the hoax thing either--looking under every rock to find a conspiracy and congratulating yourselves on being masters of the universe when you "find" it. laugh I would look at the work at Battle Creek Sanitarium instead of finding stuff Willie said and bank on it.
I don't give a hang what Willie said, he was not a prophet.


Last edited by Theophilus; 06/13/20 10:50 AM.

I am not worthy of the least of all the mercies, and of all the truth, which Thou hast shewed unto Thy servant;...
Gen 32:10
Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick [Re: Theophilus] #192529
06/13/20 11:17 AM
06/13/20 11:17 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted by Theophilus
Well, whatever, lockdown and quarantine were working until folks decided enough was enough. now the numbers are increasing again.
Cant for the life of me understand what you two are on about. If someone is ill, and it's contagious, and you get around them, there a good possibility you will get whatever it is, unless perhaps your immune system is strong. That is how stuff spreads--c'mon. We don't sneeze on people, we cover our mouths when we cough, we wash our hands. There is a reason for doing those. How is lockdown hurting--it isn't. And social distancing is fine-this thing is respiratory--sneezing or coughing spreads it.
Look at the numbers in the US-- we have a ton of positive tests. It went down, now it's going back up because a lot of people in this country think their rights are being violated if they have to wear a mask--it is ridiculous. How did New Zealand get to zero? Were they picked out to make it look like the "hoax" is legit? Sneaky, sneaky. laugh
While we're at it, I don't understand the hoax thing either--looking under every rock to find a conspiracy and congratulating yourselves on being masters of the universe when you "find" it. laugh I would look at the work at Battle Creek Sanitarium instead of finding stuff Willie said and bank on it.
I don't give a hang what Willie said, he was not a prophet.



Mrs. White did not actually, as a prophet, address the issue of quarantine, fumigation, etc. Her comments were not given as testimony from God, and were not published by her. So far as I am aware, we have no inspired commentary on the matter--at least not directly. What we have from inspiration is, however, quite clear enough in presenting certain principles of the matter. According to the Bible, if we live in obedience to God's commandments, none of the diseases of the "Egyptians" (the unbelievers) will be upon us. That was God's promise.

We also have Psalm 91.

We also have 2 Chronicles 7:13-14.

And many more like promises.

As Mrs. White, under inspiration, wrote: "All His biddings are enablings." {COL 333.1} If God, therefore, bids us, as He does indeed do, to not forsake the assembling of ourselves together, He will certainly enable us to follow His bidding.

"Be not faithless, but believing." -- Jesus' words to doubting Thomas (see John 20:27).

The principle of faith instead of fear is found throughout the Bible. Jesus commanded us not to worry even about what we would eat tomorrow--something I need to remember as I am currently financially isolated (no one back home can send me money, even if they have it and want to) and have no promise of a paycheck in the near future. He says multiple times in John chapter 14 not to be afraid. If the Healer is on our side, who can be against us?

Cough in my face while infected with COVID-19 if you wish. I am honestly not afraid. As a consequence, I was the only one from my local church here to visit an elder who had been hospitalized with a cough and fever. Everyone else in the church, including the pastor, stayed away--afraid of COVID. What kind of witness for God is this? Do you suppose that Jesus would have stayed away on account of COVID? Why do Christians usually like to ask that question of "what would Jesus do (WWJD)?" Isn't it because we would like to do the same thing that He would do?

Are we still Christians?

Something more to think about.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick [Re: Green Cochoa] #192532
06/13/20 11:43 AM
06/13/20 11:43 AM
T
Theophilus  Offline
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Regular Member
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 94
Florida. USA
laugh

Why do we even have health laws?

I don't have a problem about you saying you are not fearful. There is nothing wrong however, with hygiene. And why such a strong health message from our church? We could OTOH, throw the whole thing out, and just say don't be afraid, and heck with the hospitals, and all of the stuff written about medical missionaries, etc.

The Beloved ruler of the Universe knows man and animal will get ill from a myriad of things. Do you remember the Biblical health laws?

Just because someone doesn't want Covid in the face (God wouldn't want you coughed on either, c'mon) don't say someone is not Christian because they aren't practicing your faith the way you do.


I am not worthy of the least of all the mercies, and of all the truth, which Thou hast shewed unto Thy servant;...
Gen 32:10
Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick [Re: Theophilus] #192535
06/13/20 12:23 PM
06/13/20 12:23 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted by Theophilus
laugh

Why do we even have health laws?

I don't have a problem about you saying you are not fearful. There is nothing wrong however, with hygiene. And why such a strong health message from our church? We could OTOH, throw the whole thing out, and just say don't be afraid, and heck with the hospitals, and all of the stuff written about medical missionaries, etc.

The Beloved ruler of the Universe knows man and animal will get ill from a myriad of things. Do you remember the Biblical health laws?

Just because someone doesn't want Covid in the face (God wouldn't want you coughed on either, c'mon) don't say someone is not Christian because they aren't practicing your faith the way you do.


Theophilus,

This is life-or-death important. Eternal life, at that. Consider this verse, contemplatively:

Originally Posted by The Holy Bible
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Revelation 21:8)


Notice which group of people get the very first mention in that list?

If we have fear, we do not have faith. And without faith, it is impossible to please God (see Hebrews 11:6).

If we define as "Christians" those who harbor fear in their hearts, and who choose to give up their sweet fellowship in church with other believers in order to protect themselves and save their own lives, then we perhaps have an incongruence in our beliefs--because such "Christians" (in name only) will be outside of the city with other commandment-breakers.

Let us not forget the following verse:

Originally Posted by The Holy Bible
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. (Matthew 16:25)


Those trying to save their lives will get only this earthly one; they will lose out on eternity. Those willing to expend (lose) their temporal lives for Jesus' sake will gain eternity. If being a Christian means exposing oneself to COVID, or any other danger, for the sake of helping a fellow human being, then Christians must be prepared to do just that. Again, what would Jesus do?

We know what Jesus would do: It's on record for all to see. He touched the leper. He touched the dead. He allowed the "unclean" to touch Him. He spat on dirt to make mud, then rubbed it on someone's blind eyes. I suppose nowadays someone could go to jail for such a "crime."

Jesus does not look at sickness in the same light that we do. He knows His power to heal. Are we acquainted with that power? Only if we know Him, as it is our privilege to do.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick [Re: Green Cochoa] #192539
06/13/20 12:48 PM
06/13/20 12:48 PM
T
Theophilus  Offline
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Regular Member
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 94
Florida. USA
The Bible verse you chose has nothing to do with the topic.We both know why you are complaining. It's because you can't go to church. As for fear, do you lock your doors at night? Wash your hands? Refrigerate your food? You are not supposed to fear in that you know Christ is with you. He fully expects you to exercise good judgement. Again, He had the Israelites stay inside when the angel of death passed over. Had they "exercised faith" and gone outside, they would've been killed for tempting God.

I maintain that if you had the faith you say you have, wouldn't be complaining.
Tell the Lord you want to back to church or maybe if He could direct you to a small group for Bible study.

This church has a work to do--and i mean church as SDA everywhere. We have to spread the Gospel. We have been lax, and if this thing hadn't of happened, we would still be lax, and not considered the times in the way were were before. Are you a member of any FB groups where you all can study together?

I'm going to go exercise my "lack of faith" and watch some Bible videos and I might get a pb and J. There are so many many sermons. I came back to church because of Stephen Bohr and Walter Veith.

I hope your Sabbath is good.


I am not worthy of the least of all the mercies, and of all the truth, which Thou hast shewed unto Thy servant;...
Gen 32:10
Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick [Re: Theophilus] #192542
06/13/20 01:21 PM
06/13/20 01:21 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
SDA
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5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted by Theophilus
The Bible verse you chose has nothing to do with the topic.We both know why you are complaining. It's because you can't go to church. As for fear, do you lock your doors at night?

Funny you should ask. I just had the church folk who dropped me off at my house today asking me why I didn't lock my gate--were there not any thieves around? they wondered. I told them that if there were any, perhaps God is protecting me from them. On the other hand, I'd rather have the thief make off with my motorcycle than do something worse.

No, I don't lock my doors at night. And I take long walks, alone, at night, too--without a stitch of fear. One time, about 10:30 p.m. a few weeks ago, a motorcycle stopped beside me and the rider asked me where I was going. I told him. He said, "Oh, that's a long ways--ride with me and I'll take you there." I still had about 3-4 kilometers to go to get home, but I enjoyed the exercise and had no fear of harm, so I politely refused. He told me that someone had recently been killed along that road--it didn't sway me. In fact, if indeed the place were at all unsafe, why should I have trusted him? He finally begrudgingly left without me. I made it home just fine.

Fear is for the birds.

I do fear one thing: That I would dishonor God. Mrs. White tells us that "We have nothing to fear for the future, except as we shall forget the way the Lord has led us, and his teaching in our past history."

Let us, therefore, be afraid of forgetting what God has done for us.

Originally Posted by Theophilus
Wash your hands? Refrigerate your food?

I am entirely missing your meaning here. How do these things apply? To be honest, I am NOT using the sanitizing gel that everyone is told they're supposed to use. I have yet to use any in this country since the "outbreak." I don't use a mask, either. Nor did I wear a mask when visiting the sick elder in the hospital. In fact, I have spent hours in the region's designated COVID hospital where patients were sick with it, with no mask, no handwashing, and . . . I'm still alive to tell the story! I didn't even come down with the slightest symptom of it.

Originally Posted by Theophilus
You are not supposed to fear in that you know Christ is with you. He fully expects you to exercise good judgement.

Yes, I agree. God expects us to use good judgment. That is exactly why I'm choosing to trust a "thus saith the Lord" over and above a "thus saith the World Health Organization (WHO)." I can accept no "thus saith the government" over any divine precept; nor even a "thus saith the church." Give me the Bible. The Bible says not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together, and that simply is not fulfilled via "social distancing." The two objectives are exactly opposite. The angel told Ellen White that God's people are to "Press together. Press together. Press together!"


Originally Posted by Theophilus
Again, He had the Israelites stay inside when the angel of death passed over. Had they "exercised faith" and gone outside, they would've been killed for tempting God.

Their faith was in the blood of the lamb which was on their doorposts. This had nothing to do with sickness. It had everything to do with putting their trust in God's salvation. Note that the Egyptians were slain even when they stayed inside--so the fact of being indoors had nothing to do with this--as I believe you already knew. You'll have to come up with something that is actually valid if you wish to prove something from scripture.

Originally Posted by Theophilus
I maintain that if you had the faith you say you have, wouldn't be complaining.
Tell the Lord you want to back to church or maybe if He could direct you to a small group for Bible study.

God is ahead of you. I've been attending a small group "church" now for at least a month and a half. If I had not found this group, I don't know where I'd be. Praise God for their fellowship! No masks at church, no talk of COVID, no gel, no fear. Just plain old-fashioned worship in sincerity and truth. My old church reopened nearly a month ago. I have no interest in going back. They still have temperature checks at the door, require masks and hand sanitizing, demand a 2-meter social distancing, and limit to a quota of 50 persons in the sanctuary. One person I know was turned away for a low-grade fever which had nothing to do with COVID. Is "Christian fear" the "new normal"? I'm certainly not wishing to have any part of such.

Originally Posted by Theophilus
This church has a work to do--and i mean church as SDA everywhere. We have to spread the Gospel. We have been lax, and if this thing hadn't of happened, we would still be lax, and not considered the times in the way were were before. Are you a member of any FB groups where you all can study together?

I'm going to go exercise my "lack of faith" and watch some Bible videos and I might get a pb and J. There are so many many sermons. I came back to church because of Stephen Bohr and Walter Veith.

I hope your Sabbath is good.



My Sabbath is well past. I am not on FaceBook--I've never had an account there and don't plan on getting one. There are some legitimate reasons for me to steer clear of that sort of social media, given my location and my work. I prefer to lay low in terms of my online presence, particularly with respect to revealing who my circle of friends is.

Hope you have a good Sabbath there.

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: The Whites' Thoughts on Quarantine, Fumigation, and Church Attendance while Sick [Re: Green Cochoa] #192545
06/14/20 03:21 AM
06/14/20 03:21 AM
dedication  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
The lock down serves to destroy America's economy. Trump opposed it and was highly criticized.

Lock down was a legal action -- a show of command and force.

Now -- the disease is real enough, and it can be deadly for people whose bodies don't have a strong immune system. But that was equally true of the past flu scares in which thousands of people also died. Precautions are a GOOD IDEA -- precautions should be recommended to everyone. Good hygiene, staying away from coughing, sneezing people -- etc.

But don't go locking up all the healthy people, destroying their jobs, taking away their right to get medical treatment in hospitals for all the other non-covid ailments stopping all funerals and weddings, and other gatherings. Denying graduate ceremonies. Keep families apart simply because they lived in different residences. Fining kids for throwing a ball in a park.

That really wasn't necessary.
There should have been only precautionary guidelines like
sanitizing, washing of hands, avoid too close contact with those showing symptoms, get fresh air, build up immune system. Guidelines NOT not lock downs.

The legislation really is very arbitrary -- which is very obvious now.
In one city, thousands of protesters crowd the streets and NOTHING is done because it is their "RIGHT"????? But in a park, on the same day, in the same town a couple mothers took their kids to a play park and were FINED.
So the only "right" of congregating that is still respected, is
-- the right to protest political stuff, and to riot, steal, and destroy?????


--


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Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
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