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Re: The Flood [Re: James Peterson] #189702
06/09/19 01:17 PM
06/09/19 01:17 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Originally Posted By: James Peterson
Did you notice the dearth of scriptural evidence FOR THE DESIRE TO CONQUER in your post? To believe smooth sounding words because it sounds reasonable, in spite of reality to the contrary, is to walk right into the trap set by the serpent.

///


The scriptures are easy to find, and I assumed you would be aware of them. If in making this assumption I erred, please pardon me.

First, the scriptures are clear that God marched man out of the Garden after sin specifically to remove the possibility of eating from the Tree of Life and living forever.

Originally Posted By: The Bible
Genesis
3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.


That passage also speaks of the angels whom God placed to guard the approach to the tree of life.

Now, regarding the desire to conquer, that should be well enough understood. After all, you have (1) a group of people who can no longer live forever without the fruit of that tree; (2) they have, as is innate, a strong desire to live; and (3) they have no regard for God, having chosen to defy God's commandments and live according to their own pleasures.

In support of the first of those points is the text in Genesis I posted above. In support of the second point, we find the Bible's words saying the following:

Originally Posted By: The Bible
And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life. (Job 2:4)


(Though it seems, again, something that should be readily understood by all that people would desire life and not death.)

And for that third point, I will return to the Genesis record:

Originally Posted By: The Bible
And God saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually. (Genesis 6:5)


Obviously, at this point, it can be easily concluded that man's desires were not God's desires. Man was so wicked that "every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." It cannot get worse than this.

So, not only were my words reasonable sounding, they had sound basis in Biblical fact.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: The Flood [Re: James Peterson] #189726
06/11/19 03:23 PM
06/11/19 03:23 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
Midland
Originally Posted By: James Peterson

The tendency was obviously AWAY from God, from all that He represented, including the Garden of Eden.
I don't think the implication was that they were wishing to be closer to God. Do you?

Re: The Flood [Re: Rick H] #192612
06/20/20 05:43 PM
06/20/20 05:43 PM
Rick H  Offline
OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,100
Florida, USA
We may see this all happen again, but this time it wont be a flood of water, but of earthquake and volcanoes..

Re: The Flood [Re: Green Cochoa] #192843
08/07/20 11:28 PM
08/07/20 11:28 PM
T
Theophilus  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

Regular Member
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 94
Florida. USA
Originally Posted by Green Cochoa
Originally Posted by James Peterson
Did you notice the dearth of scriptural evidence FOR THE DESIRE TO CONQUER in your post? To believe smooth sounding words because it sounds reasonable, in spite of reality to the contrary, is to walk right into the trap set by the serpent.

///


The scriptures are easy to find, and I assumed you would be aware of them. If in making this assumption I erred, please pardon me.

First, the scriptures are clear that God marched man out of the Garden after sin specifically to remove the possibility of eating from the Tree of Life and living forever.

Originally Posted by The Bible
Genesis
3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.


That passage also speaks of the angels whom God placed to guard the approach to the tree of life.

Now, regarding the desire to conquer, that should be well enough understood. After all, you have (1) a group of people who can no longer live forever without the fruit of that tree; (2) they have, as is innate, a strong desire to live; and (3) they have no regard for God, having chosen to defy God's commandments and live according to their own pleasures.

In support of the first of those points is the text in Genesis I posted above. In support of the second point, we find the Bible's words saying the following:

Originally Posted by The Bible
And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life. (Job 2:4)


(Though it seems, again, something that should be readily understood by all that people would desire life and not death.)

And for that third point, I will return to the Genesis record:

Originally Posted by The Bible
And God saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually. (Genesis 6:5)


Obviously, at this point, it can be easily concluded that man's desires were not God's desires. Man was so wicked that "every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." It cannot get worse than this.

So, not only were my words reasonable sounding, they had sound basis in Biblical fact.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.



This is brilliant! I never thought about it before. It makes perfect sense.


I am not worthy of the least of all the mercies, and of all the truth, which Thou hast shewed unto Thy servant;...
Gen 32:10
Re: The Flood [Re: Rick H] #192932
09/05/20 07:06 PM
09/05/20 07:06 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,118
Nova Scotia, Canada
It also makes perfect sense to me.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: The Flood [Re: Green Cochoa] #193345
12/12/20 09:13 AM
12/12/20 09:13 AM
Rick H  Offline
OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,100
Florida, USA
Originally Posted by Green Cochoa
Originally Posted by James Peterson
Did you notice the dearth of scriptural evidence FOR THE DESIRE TO CONQUER in your post? To believe smooth sounding words because it sounds reasonable, in spite of reality to the contrary, is to walk right into the trap set by the serpent.

///


The scriptures are easy to find, and I assumed you would be aware of them. If in making this assumption I erred, please pardon me.

First, the scriptures are clear that God marched man out of the Garden after sin specifically to remove the possibility of eating from the Tree of Life and living forever.

Originally Posted by The Bible
Genesis
3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.


That passage also speaks of the angels whom God placed to guard the approach to the tree of life.

Now, regarding the desire to conquer, that should be well enough understood. After all, you have (1) a group of people who can no longer live forever without the fruit of that tree; (2) they have, as is innate, a strong desire to live; and (3) they have no regard for God, having chosen to defy God's commandments and live according to their own pleasures.

In support of the first of those points is the text in Genesis I posted above. In support of the second point, we find the Bible's words saying the following:

Originally Posted by The Bible
And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life. (Job 2:4)


(Though it seems, again, something that should be readily understood by all that people would desire life and not death.)

And for that third point, I will return to the Genesis record:

Originally Posted by The Bible
And God saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually. (Genesis 6:5)


Obviously, at this point, it can be easily concluded that man's desires were not God's desires. Man was so wicked that "every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." It cannot get worse than this.

So, not only were my words reasonable sounding, they had sound basis in Biblical fact.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

And we are seeing the same desire of evil today....

Re: The Flood [Re: Rick H] #193698
02/12/21 07:13 PM
02/12/21 07:13 PM
Rick H  Offline
OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,100
Florida, USA
This is very good explanation of Noah's Flood and the resulting evidence across the world basically refuting Evolution.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRo...qi-aQQTBmjQyX1xUhjZ-vegiWRhqNULzdo6w7bSQ

Re: The Flood [Re: Rick H] #193704
02/13/21 12:27 AM
02/13/21 12:27 AM
T
Theophilus  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

Regular Member
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 94
Florida. USA
Oh, Thank you!!! I have just looked at it for a few minutes, and I think it's going to be fantastic!! The Flood is my favorite OT Bible story (well, Table of nations, too)
I'm going to save this movie for tomorrow.

Last edited by Theophilus; 02/13/21 12:28 AM.

I am not worthy of the least of all the mercies, and of all the truth, which Thou hast shewed unto Thy servant;...
Gen 32:10
Re: The Flood [Re: Rick H] #193705
02/13/21 08:09 AM
02/13/21 08:09 AM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,118
Nova Scotia, Canada
This is one that I also intend to watch.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: The Flood [Re: Rick H] #193706
02/13/21 11:09 PM
02/13/21 11:09 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Just a few observations:

1) They appear to have considerably underestimated the size of the ark. I was just doing some calculations on that recently. Noah was instructed to make the ark per cubit dimensions:

Originally Posted by The Bible
6:14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
6:15 And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.
6:16 A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.


So...three hundred cubits long, fifty cubits wide, and 30 cubits high.

A cubit is the length of a man's forearm from fingertip to elbow. By today's cubit, the video might come close--but they fail to take into consideration the fact that the antediluvians were much taller, and larger proportioned, than we are today.

Originally Posted by Ellen White
As Adam came forth from the hand of his Creator, he was of noble height, and of beautiful symmetry. He was more than twice as tall as men now living upon the earth, and was well proportioned. His features were perfect and beautiful. His complexion was neither white, nor sallow, but ruddy, glowing with the rich tint of health. Eve was not quite as tall as Adam. Her head reached a little above his shoulders. She, too, was noble--perfect in symmetry, and very beautiful. {1SP 24.2}


If men now living are at least six feet tall (and a good case could be made for more than this), then Adam must have been at least 12 feet tall. It is far more likely that he was 14-18 feet tall--a giant compared to us. If he were "well proportioned," as she says, then his forearm would have been over twice as long as that of men now living as well. So, if a tall man's cubit today is around 20 inches in length, Noah's cubit may well have exceeded 40 inches. But let's suppose it were only 36 inches--three feet, as this makes the math a bit easier.

300 cubits = 300 yards @ 3 feet/cubit ==> 900 feet.

Noah's ark easily surpassed the Titanic in size. It may well have exceeded 1000 feet in length. And what were the other dimensions?

Assuming 900 feet in length, we would have 150 feet width, and 90 feet in height.

At 1000 feet in length we'd have about 167 feet wide and 100 feet tall. With three stories, that's over 30 feet per story, accommodating the larger animals fairly well.

As a biologist, I was also imagining the need for a waste hold. Where would Noah's sons have put the muckings? Did dung beetles take care of it? Fly maggots? Was it all a natural ecosystem?

Interesting things to ponder there.

And then there's the matter of the door on the side of the ark. Was it just so tightly built that the pitch glued it shut? Or was there actually an internal latch of some sort, like a slot in the door into which a key-latch dropped in, one which was internal to the wall and the occupants could not access? I suppose that since the major forces exerted on the door would have been external ones, they would be unable to move it if it needed to swing outwardly on its hinges. Perhaps it was too heavy for Noah and his sons to open--but couldn't they have put an elephant (or both of the elephants) to the task? So if it could not be simply pushed open, what latched it shut?

The scholarship is flawed with respect to Biblical accuracy as well. Consider this screenshot from the video, then compare to actual verses that defy it.

[Linked Image]

Texts using Hebrew "yowm" to mean "year" (not "day") [bolded words from "yowm" (H3117)]:

Exodus 13:10 Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year.
Numbers 9:22 Or whether it were two days, or a month, or a year, that the cloud tarried upon the tabernacle, remaining thereon, the children of Israel abode in their tents, and journeyed not: but when it was taken up, they journeyed.
Judges 17:10 And Micah said unto him, Dwell with me, and be unto me a father and a priest, and I will give thee ten shekels of silver by the year, and a suit of apparel, and thy victuals. So the Levite went in.
Judges 21:19 Then they said, Behold, there is a feast of the LORD in Shiloh yearly in a place which is on the north side of Bethel, on the east side of the highway that goeth up from Bethel to Shechem, and on the south of Lebonah.
1 Samuel 1:3 And this man went up out of his city yearly to worship and to sacrifice unto the LORD of hosts in Shiloh. And the two sons of Eli, Hophni and Phinehas, the priests of the LORD, were there.
1 Samuel 1:21 And the man Elkanah, and all his house, went up to offer unto the LORD the yearly sacrifice, and his vow.
1 Samuel 2:19 Moreover his mother made him a little coat, and brought it to him from year to year, when she came up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice.

...and there are more, but this should suffice to demonstrate the truth here.

But, perhaps we should wait for heaven for these answers, and work to the best of our ability while probation lasts with more important things.

If we believe the God of the Bible exists--what are we doing to help others find their refuge in Him before the next destruction comes?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.






Attached Files
Last edited by Green Cochoa; 02/13/21 11:10 PM.

We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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