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Ellen White on Bible Versions #193439
01/15/21 04:12 PM
01/15/21 04:12 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
SDA
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
The topic of Bible versions has frequently generated much discussion among Adventists, and this goes back over 100 years. Here on this forum, multiple topics have been opened on this subject, including these:

King James Bible vs newer versions

Bible Doctrines affected by Modern Versions

Why the King James Version is Superior...

However, while arguments about what Ellen White may have opined on the topic have been sought for, and her usage of multiple versions discussed--usually as a point in favor of new revisions, very little has been found to support what she actually taught on this matter.

Some may feel that, if she was silent on the topic, it must not be important. Some may feel her use of versions other than the King James Version (KJV) is a broad endorsement to newer translations.

BUT THE TRUTH IS SHOCKING.

After you see what she REALLY taught on this topic, you may experience a little "righteous indignation," as I have, over why the Ellen White Estate seems to have kept these statements tucked away for so long, finally releasing them with the trove of online material that now anyone can access. Even now, there is no fanfare to these statements, and if one knows not where to look, they will likely remain in the recesses of obscurity.

It is clear that souls will be lost over this issue, and the lack of clarity on it, dating back to the Bible Conference of 1919, will have everlasting results.

If only I had had this information many years ago...but it only came to my attention not long before the COVID crisis began. Until a friend forwarded me a partial set of these statements, I had blindly assumed, as have many others, that Mrs. White never wrote on the issue. My posts in the archives of the links listed above show that I was ignorant of these statements. I have since found more on my own, and perhaps I have not exhausted them yet.

I trust Mrs. White. Even if she were to write against my opinion, I would desire that my opinion be changed, for the truth is the truth. As there are a number of statements on the matter, I will let the weight of them soak in individually, one at a time. Feel free to comment or discuss the statements as they appear here.

Again, if only I had had this information back in 2013 when we were discussing "Why the King James Version is Superior," and similar topics!

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Ellen White on Bible Versions [Re: Green Cochoa] #193440
01/15/21 04:23 PM
01/15/21 04:23 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Here's one statement. Expect more, and stronger statements to come.

Originally Posted by Ellen White
Do you desire to destroy the covenant between yourselves and your God? "A perpetual covenant" means just what it says. "It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever;" God declares, "for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He rested, and was refreshed." [Verses 16, 17.] This is our evidence. You will see ere long that there will be those who will become weary of hearing repeated the things that they ought to do but do not desire to do, and they will change the wording of the Bible. We know what the Lord says in Revelation about those who do that. "A perpetual covenant" is a perpetual covenant. {21LtMs, Ms 146, 1906, par. 28}


For a refresher, here's what it says in Revelation about changing the wording of the Bible:

Originally Posted by The Holy Bible
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Revelation 22:18-19)


Blessings,

Green Cochoa.




Last edited by Green Cochoa; 01/15/21 10:31 PM. Reason: Fixed butchered quote characters

We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Ellen White on Bible Versions [Re: Green Cochoa] #193442
01/16/21 02:01 AM
01/16/21 02:01 AM
dedication  Online Content

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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,554
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The most accurate scriptures are, of course the originals, in their original languages.

Only problem is that the originals were written thousands of years ago. We are dependent upon people who carefully wrote out copies of the original scriptures.

So first we need to know which of these copies (in the original language) accurately contain the original words.

Seems that through the centuries there were two main streams of manuscripts.
--One comes to us through the Catholic church (which early translated to Latin, plus two or three Greek manuscripts have been found dating to about Constantine's time )
--The other "received" strain comes to us mainly from outside the Catholic church. There are hundreds of Greek manuscripts with remarkable identical reading.

Bible versions based on the latter "received text" are deemed the closest to the original -- and in the English language the King James Version is generally considered the closest to the received text.

Personally I like to have the King James Version as the basic Bible for study. Yet, there are other translations that still stick pretty close to a "literal" translation that bring out meaning from texts that are missed when reading the King James, simply because they use language we are more familiar with.
Nice to have interlinear resources when there is doubt to check to see what words were actually used in the Greek received manuscripts.

Of even greater concern is the difference between "literal translation" and "thought' or paraphrase translations.
The literal translational seeks to translate the words accurately from the Greek or Hebrew, while the second translates the verse to say what they think it means.
There are wide variations in meaning in many of these Bible versions.


It's in these more loosely translated paraphrases and "thought" translations that we see a lot more outright REWRITING and rewording to make the Bible say sometimes the exact opposite of what it actually says.

Take for example a text often used against Sabbath keepers --

Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath, Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. KJV

Nothing in that text says anything about doing away with the Sabbath.
It does say "don't let anyone judge you in respect of.....
Doesn't say there's a shadow which is now fulfilled
but there is a shadow of things still coming.
Doesn't say anything about temporal Jewish rules that are now ended.
The "body" (sōma) means "body" and refers to the church -- and Christ is the Head.
for we see in the fnext verses -
the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you...in worshipping angels...and not holding to the Head from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment....

Now look at these Bibles --

NIV 12:6 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

They added quite a few descriptive words.
They changed the future tense (is to come) to a past tense (were to come) in verse 17, and changed the rest of the verse.

The Living Bible goes even further, changing the meaning by adding all kinds of things.

16 So don?t let anyone criticize you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating Jewish holidays and feasts or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. 17 For these were only temporary rules that ended when Christ came. They were only shadows of the real thing?of Christ himself.

The ASV is closer

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day: 17 which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Christ?s. 18 Let no man rob you of your prize by a voluntary humility and worshipping of the angels...19and not holding fast the Head, from whom all the body, being supplied and knit together ....

Re: Ellen White on Bible Versions [Re: Green Cochoa] #193443
01/16/21 08:12 AM
01/16/21 08:12 AM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Statement #2:

Originally Posted by Ellen White
Well, there was war in heaven, and all the disaffected ones were overcome and cast down to the earth. I want to tell you that that wonderful Lucifer who wanted the highest place, lost his hold of heaven. He would not repent, and therefore there are two parties in our world. There is one party that is striving that they may be overcomers by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony. The party that rebelled in heaven had intelligence and knowledge, and they used them on the wrong side, to build up opposing elements. That is how they used their knowledge. Do you think that that party would have no influence with the highest parties on the earth? They felt perfectly capable of handling matters, and here was the work going right on in the earth. There were agencies that came from heaven. Why, they had intelligence, the greatest intelligence. They did not lose their intelligence all at once. But they had not the power, the connection with God, the power of discernment, to understand that if they repented, they could be brought back again. {25LtMs, Ms 80, 1910, par. 9}

Now what does Satan propose to do? He proposes that he is capable of changing this Bible. These parties that fell understand all about heaven, and that they can bring in the different sentiments from the Bible, and they are going to have a revision of it. You will see they will make revisions of the Bible, but every one of us needs to stand intelligently on the Word. We cannot afford to be careless, but we must have that simplicity of godliness that is a virtue to us. We must have it. {25LtMs, Ms 80, 1910, par. 10}


Does a Luciferian revision of the Bible sound attractive to you? Ellen White is clear that Lucifer's party on earth, including members of the angel choir that followed him in his rebellion in heaven, "will make revisions of the Bible." Clearly, those revisions are unsafe. And we must avoid them. This puts a bit more "spark" to the discussion of Bible versions--but the full gravity of the situation is more fully disclosed in yet another quote to come.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Ellen White on Bible Versions [Re: Green Cochoa] #193444
01/16/21 08:45 AM
01/16/21 08:45 AM
Daryl  Online Canadian

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 24,944
Nova Scotia, Canada
Interesting EGW quotes.

Keep them coming.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Ellen White on Bible Versions [Re: Green Cochoa] #193460
01/16/21 10:10 PM
01/16/21 10:10 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient
Statement #3:

Originally Posted by Ellen White
I tell you that Lucifer who fell from heaven, is a busy workman. He is working with all his power, and so are all those fallen angels; and they are highly educated. Did they lose all their education? They took their education and brought it along with them, that they might use it to grasp souls. They can make the plea of their wonderful intelligence, and we want to become intelligent, too, that we may be able to meet the powers of darkness, not by changing the Word, but by the very Word of God we can meet them. {25LtMs, Ms 81, 1910, par. 34}


This is a simple message here: We should not be among those who are changing the Word.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Ellen White on Bible Versions [Re: Green Cochoa] #193465
01/17/21 12:07 PM
01/17/21 12:07 PM
ProdigalOne  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2022

Dedicated Member
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 1,044
Alberta, Canada
Is the 1611 KJV a better/more accurate translation than the KJV of today?


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Ellen White on Bible Versions [Re: Green Cochoa] #193468
01/17/21 12:57 PM
01/17/21 12:57 PM
K
kland  Offline
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Active Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,214
Midland
Originally Posted by Green Cochoa
Here's one statement. Expect more, and stronger statements to come.

Originally Posted by Ellen White
Do you desire to destroy the covenant between yourselves and your God? "A perpetual covenant" means just what it says. "It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever;" God declares, "for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He rested, and was refreshed." [Verses 16, 17.] This is our evidence. You will see ere long that there will be those who will become weary of hearing repeated the things that they ought to do but do not desire to do, and they will change the wording of the Bible. We know what the Lord says in Revelation about those who do that. "A perpetual covenant" is a perpetual covenant. {21LtMs, Ms 146, 1906, par. 28}


What is Ellen White talking about here? What is the context, what is she implying is specifically being changed?

Re: Ellen White on Bible Versions [Re: Green Cochoa] #193477
01/17/21 05:17 PM
01/17/21 05:17 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient

Statement #4:

Originally Posted by Ellen White
Among the ten virgins only half were wise. We must not trust to mere theory, but [use] the oil of grace, that our lamps may shine so that the world will take knowledge of us that we have been with Jesus and learned of Him. Satan is watching that he may find the mind in an unguarded moment and so get possession of it. We do not want to be ignorant of his devices, neither do we want to be overpowered by his devices. He is pleased with the pictures that represent him as having horns and hoofs, for he has intelligence; he was once an angel of light. To these that trust in their intelligence he will make believe that they can correct the Scriptures. You are going to meet this infidelity in high places. {Ms11-1893.9}

You need the Holy Spirit of God, the divine power to co-operate with you to discern the track that the devil is preparing, and escape it. He is going to lead the religious world captive (2 Thessalonians 2:11). How dare they to lay their sacrilegious hands upon the Scriptures! We must bring the Sabbath of the Lord to the front. It is so plain, and so decided. It is a sign between the children of God and the children of the world. Please read (Exodus 31:17): "It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed." {Ms11-1893.10}

When Christ delivered His memorial Sermon on the Mount, He gave the exposition of His own law. The Pharisees thought He was dishonoring the law, for their traditions so covered the law that it could not be kept. Christ was bringing right principles before them, and these words fell upon their astonished ears: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Matthew 5:17, 18. If men with reasoning faculties pass over what the Lord Jesus Christ says, it becomes us to stand where we can defend the honor of the law of the Lord God of Israel. We can do so by presenting the truth as it is in Jesus. The enemy has ever labored to disconnect the law and the gospel. They go hand in hand. {Ms11-1893.11}

We know not how soon we shall be singled out as not being law abiding citizens, because the prince of the power of the air is getting possession of the minds of men. We can choose between obeying the powers that be and dishonoring God, or disobeying the powers that be and honoring God. If we obey God, His Holy Spirit is resting upon us, and we are not fighting with our own assertions, but with "It is written." All we have to do is to go back to the fourth commandment. Read the testimony of Jesus Christ that not even a little dot was to be altered, but it is just as written by the finger of God on the tables of stone. We should love the truth because it is truth. {Ms11-1893.12}


This message seems particularly appropriate in the era of COVID. There is more here than first meets the eye. You may wish to read carefully, with a mind open to themes beyond that of Bible translations merely. But, speaking of them laying "their sacrilegious hands on the scriptures," have you heard that the Chinese government is producing a new Bible translation? Yes, they want to make one that is more friendly to the ideals of Communism. This, of course, is an extreme example, and would probably not work so well in the West. But Satan is adaptable, and finds ways to work in every locality.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
Re: Ellen White on Bible Versions [Re: Green Cochoa] #193478
01/18/21 10:44 PM
01/18/21 10:44 PM
Green Cochoa  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2021

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,003
The Orient

Statement #5:

Originally Posted by Ellen White
We are to maintain the inspiration of the Scriptures religiously and zealously, in a period of the world's [history] when men who claim to be religious are not religious as far as the sacred Scriptures are concerned. They are a pretense. They would change the Scriptures into an unreliable production and bring in forgery as the word of the Lord. {25LtMs, Ms 88, 1910, par. 2}


The statement speaks for itself. Note that "would" has more significance than merely the future-conditional context we ordinarily use it for nowadays.

One more statement before the "bombshell" comes...then on to application of these to the inspired writings of Mrs. White herself. If God's Word will be tampered with, what immunity would her writings have?

I realize that some will have theological difficulties with the fact that God, who says He will preserve His Word, would allow corruptions of it to exist. But there is a preserved line of manuscripts for the Bible and anyone who is honest in heart and seeks for this can find it. Some of our past discussions on Bible versions highlighted them: we have the "Majority Text" and the "Minority Text": Perhaps more on those later.

"Truth is the first casualty of war."

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.


We can receive of heaven's light only as we are willing to be emptied of self. We can discern the character of God, and accept Christ by faith, only as we consent to the bringing into captivity of every thought to the obedience of Christ. And to all who do this, the Holy Spirit is given without measure. In Christ "dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him." [Colossians 2:9, 10.] {GW 57.1} -- Ellen White.
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