HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield, Dina, Nelson
1323 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,189
Posts195,525
Members1,323
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
kland 15
Rick H 15
Daryl 4
March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Member Spotlight
ProdigalOne
ProdigalOne
Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,168
Joined: June 2015
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
3 registered members (Karen Y, 2 invisible), 2,970 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
The "Seat of the Dragon" sits within the "Mother Church" #193459
01/16/21 09:54 PM
01/16/21 09:54 PM
R
RighteousnessBF  Offline OP
Regular Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 81
Vancouver
The "Seat of the Dragon" sits within the "Mother Church"on the "Seven Hills"


Revelation 17 is about to become the center of Biblical prophetic studies. There has been a debate raging within the SDA church for the past 25 years because of the apparent silence of the end time prophet Mrs. Ellen White on this chapter, but just like every other supposed silent chapter, it will soon be revealed that she and the pioneers who originally proclaimed the Three Angels Messages had given us plenty of evidence to prove the issues at hand but that it was men rushing ahead of the Spirit trying to answer the supposed unanswered elements that have retarded the progression of present truth on this subject.

Here are some very important elements that others have rushed past and completely ignored in systematic research in regards to the crux of this chapter which revolves around the seven heads of the beast.

First, we must look to biblical precedence to comprehend the structure of this prophecy.

Regarding heads on any other beast prophecy, they ALWAYS represent first the leaders of that kingdom then the kingdoms that they rule. For example, when Daniel interpreted the prophecy given to Nebuchadnezzar, he said "you, oh king, are that head of Gold" and we know this began the apex of the power of the kingdom of Babylon, the symbol extends beyond that king to his kingdom. This lays the principle that the HEAD of the image was first the man who leads the kingdom, then it represents the kingdom itself. Simple. Yet most scholars do not even mention the fact that Daniel first said that the head of Gold was Nebuchadnezzar. Why? The next example is the four heads on the Leopard beast. EVERY SDA SCHOLAR says that these heads were the four generals who divided Greece after Alexander but they mainly focus on the division of the kingdom and not the Generals. Nonetheless, those four heads first represent the LEADERS of that divided kingdom and then the four divisions of territory. This sets the Biblical precedence to apply to other prophecies.

Next, what did the protestant Commentators and SDA pioneers say regarding the seven heads of the three Roman beasts with seven heads and ten horns in Revelation 12, 13 & 17 ?

Quote
In advocating the view that the seven heads of the dragon of Revelation 12, and the beasts of Revelation 13 and 17, represent seven forms of government that have existed in the Roman Empire, the writer deems it necessary to remind the reader that he is not dealing in novelties. He is not introducing a new view to appeal to the curiosity of the reader, and to cater to the not always healthy excitement of pursuing a line of thought because it is strange. But the view which will be advocated in this paper is one which has characterized the Adventist movement from the beginning, through the first, second, and third messages, to the present time, and is only beginning within a few years to be called in question. Nor can the view be said to be peculiar to Adventists in its historical aspect, - a scheme devised by them to meet their peculiar views of prophecy, ?for scholars declared before the Adventist movement began, that Rome had presented to the world, as a unique and marvelous feature of history, seven distinct forms of government. All that the Adventists did was to say, as the most natural thing in the world, that if Rome did have seven forms of government, the seven heads of the dragon (Rev 12), which was a symbol of Rome, must be designed to represent that fact. The old Roman historians, Livy and Tacitus, acknowledged the different forms of government in Rome, to be so many ?heads? of the Roman commonwealth?And one of the earliest Protestant commentators, Osiander, as early as 1511, names the whole seven as we have them; namely, Kings, Consuls, Decemvirs, Dictators, Triumvirs, Emperors, and Popes, as the forms of Roman government represented by the seven heads of the dragon of Revelation 12... Adventists, under the first (angel's) message, at once adopted this view. {SHR 1.1}


Here it is shown that not only did the Protestant Commentators support the fact that the seven heads of the beast were seven different forms of ROMAN government with seven different forms of Roman LEADERS governing that kingdom but that this teaching was also directly connected directly to the THREE ANGELS MESSAGES, and that the first Adventists, which included Ellen White, immediately and unanimously agreed with this view. This is a significant element that I have not heard anyone in recent times teach or even attempt to reconcile.

Is there anyone here who would dare to tell me that the repeat of the Three Angels Message would be different than the first time it was proclaimed? Are we not to tread the same path that the pioneers did in that proclamation? Can anyone else show me a direct rebuke of this comment in the Testimonies? Why would she be silent on this subject if this was a lie or not something to be embraced and repeated in the Loud Cry? How do modern-day teachings compare to this statement which is supported in the testimonies?

Having made these leading points, now consider this...

There are three phases of the seven-headed ten-horned Roman beast.

Quote
Now I want you to see, in the twelfth chapter of Revelation, the three phases of the history of the world, from Christ until now... The first was pagan Rome; the second is the apostate church; the third is the power that is used against the remnant. {ARSH June 6, 1899, p. 356.7}


Revelation 12 mainly focuses on Pagan Rome who tried to kill Jesus as a baby and nailed Him to the cross. The seven heads of that Dragon beast in that chapter cover all seven forms of the ROMAN government until the Emperor gave the Seat of the Dragon to the seventh head, the POPES, and they took control of the seven-hilled Imperial City. This is a perfectly sound prophetic interpretation here.

Then began the second phase of Rome as foretold in Revelation 13, representing the 1,260 years of Papal Roman rule in the Dark Ages. The prophecy of Revelation 13:2 is fulfilled by the pope the seventh head of the first phase of Rome. "The dragon gave him his power, and his SEAT and great authority" 'til the deadly wound took the SEAT of the Dragon away within the Imperial seven-hilled city. Notice how the prophecy zooms in closer and closer with the Popes from this point on.

[Linked Image]

This is the seat of the Dragon beast, the throne given to the Bishop of Rome by Constantine I during the pontificate of Pope Miltiades which sits in the Lateran Arch-Basilica inside the seven-hilled city of Rome, not in ST. Peters Basilica across the Tiber River outside the walled city of Imperial Rome. It is a recommissioned Roman toilet that some say was used by the soldiers who crucified Christ.

Quote
"In the sixth century, the papacy had become firmly established. Its SEAT of power was fixed in the imperial city and the bishop of Rome was declared to be the HEAD over the entire church. Paganism had given place to the papacy. The dragon had given to the beast ?his power, and his seat, and great authority.? {Revelation 13:2}. And now began the 1260 years of papal oppression foretold in the prophecies of Daniel and the Revelation." Daniel 7:25; Revelation 13:5-7. {Great Controversy 54.2}


[Linked Image]

Many believe that the Vatican is the seat of the Papacy, but in fact, this is not the case. The ARCH-Basilica, meaning the "Greatest Basilica", which holds the papal throne, is not St. Peters Basilica in the Vatican, but St John the Lateran Basilica in the heart of the walled Seven Hilled portions of the city of Rome. This is the area considered to be sacred by the Pagans and their gods in the Imperial Roman era. Notice how the Lateran Church sits upon the seven-hilled Imperial City and how the Vatican is across the Tiber River. This is very important to understand Revelation 17 because the prophecy points directly to when the seat of the Dragon would be restored by regaining this Basilica and the seat within her.

[Linked Image]

This is Lateran Arch Basilica, i.e. the cathedral church, therefore it houses the Cathedra or ecclesiastical seat of the Roman Pontiff. On the archbasilica's front wall between the main portals is a plaque inscribed with the words "Sacrosancta Lateranensis ecclesia omnium urbis et orbis ecclesiarum mater et caput", which translates to "Most Holy Lateran Church, of all the churches in the City and the world, the MOTHER and HEAD"; a visible indication of the archbasilica's claim to be the "MOTHER CHURCH" of all the world.

[Linked Image]

Most people are not aware of the strange fact that every pope of the Dark Ages claimed that the Lateran Arch Basilica housed the Ark of the Covenant. They literally claimed that they had been given the power to declare that Rome was the center of God's universe and that they literally sat in the seat of Moses. This is why God foreshadowed that the man of sin "will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." 2 Thess 2:4.

Now, with these extra elements of evidence, a picture should now emerge on how important the SEAT of the Dragon is in identifying who those HEADS are of Revelation 17. The Spirit of Prophecy specifically proclaims that when the Pope received the SEAT of the dragon within the Imperial City it began the 1,260 years of oppression of the Dark Ages. Thus, when they lost that SEAT within the MOTHER HEAD CHURCH and the man of sin had his kingdom taken away it was the infliction of the deadly wound upon the HEAD of the beast of Revelation 13 and then this wound would be healed when they regained that SEAT within the seven hills and their title of 'king" back. This shows the significance of the LATERAN TREATY!!! It begins the succession of the seven last Papal heads until the eighth and final pope. Pope Francis is the eighth king of Revelation 17:11.


Re: The "Seat of the Dragon" sits within the "Mother Church" [Re: RighteousnessBF] #193461
01/16/21 10:10 PM
01/16/21 10:10 PM
R
RighteousnessBF  Offline OP
Regular Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 81
Vancouver
Now, look at everything that is happening in Pope Francis the Jesuit's reign and tell me that you can say with all confidence that this is a lie.

Re: The "Seat of the Dragon" sits within the "Mother Church" [Re: RighteousnessBF] #193495
01/21/21 04:51 AM
01/21/21 04:51 AM
dedication  Offline
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
I realize the Adventist pioneers identified the seven heads of the sea beast of Rev. 13 as the seven phases of Roman government.
On that point we are in agreement.

Also the Lateran "seat" is an interesting study.


But I do have questions concerning the dragon of Rev. 12.

The woman represents God's people throughout earth's history, -- literal Israel through whom the Messiah came and spiritual Israel (those who accept and follow the Messiah, Gentile and Jew).
Revelation 12 spans the history of the dragon throughout the whole Great Controversy from the war in heaven, the expulsion of Satan, the birth of Christ, Satan seeking to destroy Christ, and when Christ returns to heaven, satan turns his wrath against Christ's followers. He persecutes the woman during the 1260 years 538 to 1798, followed by a period of relief from persecution when the earth helps the woman, and ending with Satan's wrath full blown against the last remnant that hold to the commandments and to the Messiah. Revelation 12 covers satan's war in the whole great controversy, up to, but not including Christ's second coming.

The text plainly tells us the dragon is the devil, that serpent (that tempted Eve in the Garden) Satan. The dragon is Satan.

Now EGW does mention that IN A SECONDARY SENSE the dragon represents pagan Rome.
"Thus while the dragon, primarily, represents Satan, it is, in a secondary sense, a symbol of pagan Rome. {GC88 438.2}

J.N. Andrews wrote:
" In fact, if we omit the heads and horns which represent that empire in its several forms, we shall find that the red dragon, or serpent, is Satan himself. Rev.20:2,3,7.

That makes sense -- Satan is thoroughly pagan and he didn't go away when the papacy came, even though he gave the papacy the seat of power making paganism look somewhat like Christianity, the paganism of Satan was still very much present.

Let's look at what one pioneer wrote:
Originally Posted by John Andrews
These seven heads belong alike to the dragon of Chap. xii, the beast of Chap. xiii, and that of Chap. xvii. This shows conclusively that the dragon and these two beasts are symbols of the same power under different heads. For there are not three sets of seven heads, but it is evident that the heads are successive forms of its power, one of them bearing rule at a time, and then giving place to another. Chap. xvii, 9, 10.
It appears that the dragon of Chap. xii, and the beast of Chap. xiii, and that of Chap. xvii, each represent some one or more of the seven heads; yet as each is seen with the seven heads, they must each in a certain sense extend over all the period covered by the three symbols. For there are not 21 heads. The proper period of each seems to be this: the dragon before the 1260 years; the beast of Chap. xiii, during that period, and the beast of Chap. xvii, since the deadly wound and captivity at the close of that period.
The ten horns are the ten kingdoms of the fourth empire. They are distinct from the seven heads and hence the ten kingdoms are not to be counted as one of the heads as some have done. The horns are cotemporary, that is, all reign at the same time; while the heads are successive, but one existing at a time. {1855 JNA, Three Angels of Revelation 74.}


So J.N.Andrews writes the seven heads on the three creatures are always the same seven, they don't change their identity on the three creatures, but each head takes its turn in history, marking the advancement in time .

But the study in the opening post, which challenged Adventist to stay with the pioneer's understanding, isn't itself following the pioneers, for the pioneers did not view the seven heads in Rev. 17 as representing the seven + one popes that ruled since 1929.

Thus it puzzles me --
for while I believe the pioneers had a good understanding of the big picture of Rev. 12,13,17 -- but not all the details were totally agreed upon. They didn't have perfect unity themselves.
Thus -- maybe you are right to see the seven heads of Rev. 17 as the last seven, plus one, popes?
And maybe the Adventist evangelists are right that the dragon's heads represent world kingdoms through which the dragon worked.
Or maybe we still don't have the heads figured out correctly --

Re: The "Seat of the Dragon" sits within the "Mother Church" [Re: RighteousnessBF] #193496
01/21/21 05:01 AM
01/21/21 05:01 AM
dedication  Offline
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
This is how J.N.Andrews explains the seven heads of Rev. 17

Originally Posted by J.N.Andrews
"The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth." "The woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth." Verses 9, 18. The wisdom which is needed to rightly comprehend the words of the angel, would doubtless lead us to compare the different instances in which the same facts are referred to in the book of Revelation. If we do this, the following points will appear. {1855 JNA, TAR 42.2}

1. Chap. xiii informs us that one of these seven heads was wounded unto death, and that this deadly wound was healed. Or, as the same fact is stated again, it had a wound by a sword and did live. Now it would be supreme folly to assert this of a literal mountain. Hence the heads are not mountains of earth. {1855 JNA, TAR 42.3}

2. Each of the seven heads is represented with a crown upon it in Chap. xii, even as each of the ten horns are thus represented in Chap. xiii. Each of the heads must therefore represent a kingdom or government, even as the horns represent governments, or else we must understand that each of the seven hills of Rome is represented in this prophecy with a crown upon it! And the lion's mouth of this beast would be a singular feature indeed, if joined to a mountain of earth! The ten horns upon the head of this beast are not set in mountains of earth. {1855 JNA, TAR 42.4}

3. It is evident that the seven heads are successive (that is, the beast has but one head at a time) in distinction from the ten horns which are cotemporary. But the seven hills of Rome are not successive; for it cannot be said of them, "five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space." The beast itself is the eighth, and is of the seven, which proves that the beast is a literal mountain, or that the heads are not. {1855 JNA, TAR 43.1}

4. The heads of the beast must, according to Dan. vii, 6, compared with Dan. viii, 8, 22, be explained as kingdoms or governments. Mountains, according to Dan. ii, 35, 44; Jer. li, 25, denote kingdoms. But the version of Prof. Whiting, which is a literal translation of the text, removes all obscurity from Rev. xvii, 9, 10. "The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sitteth, and they are seven kings." Thus it will be seen that the angel represents the heads as mountains, and then explains the mountains to be seven successive kings. Thus we see that the angel transferred the meaning from one symbol to another, and then gave the explanation of the second symbol. {1855 JNA, TAR 43.2}

Having proved that the mountains are not literal, but symbolic, it follows that the woman which sitteth upon them cannot represent a literal city. For a literal city cannot sit upon symbolic mountains. Hence it appears that the angel transfers the meaning from one symbol to another, as in verses 9, 10; Chap. xi, 4. And it is certain that the woman of Chap. xii, represents the church, and not a literal city. Hence it is a mistaken idea that a woman in the book of Revelation, as a symbol, always represents a literal city. {1855 JNA, TAR 44.1}

Another evidence that the literal city of Rome is not the Babylon of the Apocalypse, is found in the following important fact. Rome was and is "the seat of the beast;" therefore the city of Rome cannot be the woman seated upon the beast. For Rome cannot be both the seat of the beast and the woman that sits upon the beast. Lest any should deny that Rome is the seat of the beast, we will prove that point from the New Testament. The seat of the beast is the same that had been the seat of the dragon. Rev. xiii, 2. This dragon is the power that ruled the world at the time of our Saviour's birth. Rev. xii. Consequently it is imperial Rome. The seat of the imperial power, the throne of the C?sars, was at Rome in Italy. Luke ii, 1; Acts xxv, 10-12, 21; compared with xxvi, 32; xxvii, 1, 24; xxviii, 14-16. The fact being established that Rome is the seat of the beast, it follows that Rome is not the woman Babylon seated upon that beast. {1855 JNA, TAR 44.2}

The fact that Rome is not the Babylon of the Apocalypse, may also be demonstrated from Rev. xvi. The fifth vial is poured out upon the seat of the beast, which we have shown to be Rome. But the great city Babylon does not receive her cup of wrath until the seventh vial is poured out. Verses 10, 11, 17-19. Then Babylon and Rome are not the same. {1855 JNA, TAR 44.3}

Were Babylon a literal city, but few of the people of God at most could be found in it, and but a portion of any class of the wicked. So that almost all of every class of men would in that case be outside of the Babylon of Revelation. But it is very evident that at the time of the cry, "Come out of her my people," the people of God as a body are in that great city.
It is also worthy of notice that if Babylon is a literal city it must be a place of the greatest commercial importance; for in Rev. xviii, it is represented as the great center of commerce; and its destruction causes universal mourning among the merchants and sailors of the world.
It is certain that the literal city of Rome is as far from being a commercial city as any one upon the globe. And the destruction of Rome would not in the smallest degree affect commercial business. Nor could the sailors and shipmasters of the earth lament over her, saying, "What city is like unto this great city!" For New York or London is equal to a great number of such as Rome in commercial importance. And indeed there is not a city upon the globe whose destruction would cause all commerce to cease, and all the sailors and merchants of the earth to mourn. These arguments we think demonstrate that the city of Rome is not the Babylon of the Apocalypse. {1855 JNA, TAR 45.1}

Re: The "Seat of the Dragon" sits within the "Mother Church" [Re: dedication] #193503
01/22/21 09:58 PM
01/22/21 09:58 PM
R
RighteousnessBF  Offline OP
Regular Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 81
Vancouver
Thank you for your reply. Excellent questions.

Have you ever heard of the "Repeat and Enlarge" principle? In Revelation 12 there are a couple of different principles at play, Inclusio, Chiastic, and "repeat and enlarge" structure.

Many times in Bible Prophecy we see the same timeframe repeated and enlarged to focus on specific elements of the power previously mentioned. Revelation 12 is a complete overview of all of Rome from its beginning to its end. Then Rev 13 zooms in to the seventh head of the first phase, then it zooms in again in Chapter 17 to focus on the last seven (8) popes.

To support this repeat and enlarge principle regarding the seven heads in Revelation 12 we also have the back up to the other element first. Yes, the Dragon is primarily Satan, and secondarily Pagan Rome as Mrs. White said on page 438.2 of the Great Controversy. Notice at the beginning of Rev 12 how the church is pained to be delivered of Christ while Israel's prophets were proclaiming His soon arrival. This is while Rome is coming to power. So this is the starting point. ROME with Satan as their leader trying to destroy Jesus, no other power. Then we get the background of how the leader of the power, Satan, has always been trying to kill Jesus, then after He ascended to heaven we see how this power will continue to try to destroy his people in three phases.

Quote
Now I want you to see, in the twelfth chapter of Revelation, the three phases of the history of the world, from Christ until now... The first was pagan Rome; the second is the apostate church; the third is the power that is used against the remnant. {ARSH June 6, 1899, p. 356.7}


Here is how repeat and enlarge is in play for the seven heads. Here in chapter 12, they are shown as seven different types of leadership but once the seventh head comes into power, the Popes, then Revelation 13 zooms into that head, and the seven heads then become symbolic of all the popes who will rule Rome in the Papacy.

Quote
The number 7 indicates completeness, and is symbolic of the fact that the messages extend to the end of time... {Acts of the Apostles 585.3}


In Chapter 13 there is a major piece of evidence that most scholars miss. It is in the deadly wound inflicted on one of the heads. WHO received the deadly wound? It was the Pope when he lost the SEAT of the Dragon which sits in the Mother HEAD church, the Lateran Basilica on the seven hills of Imperial Rome. One of the heads received this wound, not all of them. Correct?

Then why will no one acknowledge this quote from the Testimonies where Mrs. White says that Pope Pius VI is the "one who received the deadly wound" and called him "this MAN noted in prophecy"?

Quote
That afternoon [November 2] he [Elder Bourdeau] had us accompany him to the Cathedral [in Valence, France] and look upon the bust of Pius VI who was noted in prophecy, who was led into captivity and died in captivity. Here was the one marked in history who received the deadly wound. His heart is encased in the marble monument beneath where the bust is located. We felt rather solemn as we looked upon the monument of this man noted in prophecy. Letter 110, 1886, p. 2. (To W. C. White and wife, November 4, 1886.) {8MR 354.1}
Released June 21, 1978.


Notice when this manuscript was released? God put His hand over this quote to test the church. He let those who think they know and have authority to teach go way out on their little limb, then He released this to prove that they had no clue what they were teaching. They ran without His leading. They now have no conscience to repent and correct their years of false teaching.


Re: The "Seat of the Dragon" sits within the "Mother Church" [Re: RighteousnessBF] #193509
01/23/21 04:40 AM
01/23/21 04:40 AM
dedication  Offline
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
I agree the prophecies have a pattern of repeat and enlarge, giving more detail as it moves to reveal more in each period.

But the question of the heads is still rather confusing,

The pioneers, in their publications, were teaching that the dragon of Rev. 12, the beast of Rev. 13, and the Rev. 17 beast, all had seven heads that representing the same seven governments of Rome.
They applied the repeat and enlarge principle -- by saying each head reigned successively, at a different time. When Christ was born, the sixth Roman head (government of imperial Rome) was reigning.
The Revelation 13 beast had the seventh head reigning which represented the entire 1260 years reign of papal Rome, Pius VI wasn't a head by himself, but simply the last pope of the seventh head reign.
In Rev. 17, five of the Roman forms of government had ended by John's day. The sixth head (Imperial Roman) was in power. The seventh (papal Rome) was yet to come. And an eighth (the revival of Roman power) would bring in the end.

It appears you are saying the pioneers were right in saying the dragon's seven heads represent the seven Roman forms of government, but they were wrong in continuing to identify the seven heads on the beasts of Rev. 13 and 17 in the same way?

Does each beast have its own unique set of seven heads, in your understanding? representing something different --
It appears to me that you are saying, the Rev. 13 beast is really the "seventh head" of the dragon.

Which leads to the next question-- are the seven heads on Rev. 13 beast individual popes, in your understanding?
If the seventh head is a specific pope, (as in Pius VI) on the beast of Rev. 13, then all the other six heads would also be specific popes as well. Yet there were many more popes, not just six that preceded Pius VI.

Just a side note -- the 8MR 354 quote was not really meant for publication, it was a personal letter from Ellen White to her son and daughter-in-law describing her trip. Do you think it was written as a correction to the way the pioneers were teaching at the time..

Re: The "Seat of the Dragon" sits within the "Mother Church" [Re: dedication] #193510
01/23/21 10:09 AM
01/23/21 10:09 AM
R
RighteousnessBF  Offline OP
Regular Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 81
Vancouver
You are getting close.

Here is a key that most people miss. In the book of Daniel when Babylon fell to Medo-Persia did Daniel ever prophesy about literal Babylon again? No, he didn't. Why not? Because after they are gone and off the stage why would God prophesy about them again? They are gone, so there is no need to include them in future prophecies. The same thing applies to the seven heads. When the first phase of Rome (Pagan Rome) morphs into the second phase, Papal Rome in the Dark Ages, then the previous six heads are no longer prophesied about.

Uriah Smith hit on this in his paper the Seven Heads of the Beast...

Quote
"No prophecy can be found dealing with subjects in that way: that is, introducing new symbols to represent old governments which had had their day, and passed away, never again to appear among men. What conceivable reason could there be for prophecy thus to deal with them? Prophecy relates to the future from the time it is given not to the past. It only goes back far enough into the past to show the grounds for the future events which it predicts, and to identify the symbols which it introduces. Of this we have an illustration in Rev. 12:1, 2. And just as soon as a nation has performed its part and passed away, it is dropped out of the chain of events, and the prophecy goes on with the future."
[?7 HEADS? p. 5 Para. 2].


-The seven heads of the Roman beast in Rev 12 are all seven different forms of the Roman government from its formation 'till its demise. So the seventh head includes everything that we would see in both phases of Papal Rome. We are just shown that head closer in both phases shown in Rev 13 & 17, Rev 13= the 1,260 years of the Dark Ages until the deadly head wound, and Rev 17= the revived Papal Roman Empire after the Lateran Treaty.

Re: The "Seat of the Dragon" sits within the "Mother Church" [Re: dedication] #193511
01/23/21 10:20 AM
01/23/21 10:20 AM
R
RighteousnessBF  Offline OP
Regular Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 81
Vancouver
In Revelation 17 there are not only seven heads... there is an eighth and final head, and individual characteristics are given to the last three. So this is the ultimate distillation of the beast to a single person.

Here is an element that I have not yet seen anyone speak about.

In Revelation 17 the Harlot is sealed with the title of the MOTHER OF HARLOTS. So this is when ecumenicism with the Protestant churches comes into play. The Harlot could not truly be considered their mother until she is acknowledged as such and Mrs White totally proves this by this statement.

Quote
In the seventeenth of Revelation is foretold the destruction of all the CHURCHES who corrupt themselves by idolatrous devotion to the service of the PAPACY, those who have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication... thus is represented the PAPAL power...What is it that gives its kingdom to this power? Protestantism, a power which while professing to have the temper and spirit of a lamb, and to be allied to heaven, speaks with the voice of a dragon. It is moved by a power from beneath. THIS IS THE MESSAGE SATAN WOULD HAVE SILENCED. {Lt232-1899 November 10, 1899 par. 23}


[Linked Image]

So the Ten horns of Revelation 17 are now the Protestant churches who began giving their kingdom to the Papacy by the Lutherans signing the JDDJ in 1999 and now every other major Protestant church has also signed. And what king was in power when this happened? Pope John Paul II the sixth king of Revelation 17:10 is who signed that agreement, the one who IS in the vision of Revelation 17 shown in verse 10.

[Linked Image]

Re: The "Seat of the Dragon" sits within the "Mother Church" [Re: dedication] #193512
01/23/21 10:24 AM
01/23/21 10:24 AM
R
RighteousnessBF  Offline OP
Regular Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 81
Vancouver
Then the seventh king of Revelation "Must remain a little while". How did Pope Benedict XVI remain? By retiring so that he is still alive in the reign of the Eighth and final pope.

Benedict claimed to have a mystical experience and announced his retirement that day on the anniversary of the signing of the Lateran Treaty, February 11, 2013, and then lightning immediately struck St Peters twice showing heralding the final pope.

[Linked Image]

Re: The "Seat of the Dragon" sits within the "Mother Church" [Re: dedication] #193513
01/23/21 10:36 AM
01/23/21 10:36 AM
R
RighteousnessBF  Offline OP
Regular Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 81
Vancouver
Now we are in the time of the eighth and final pope. Francis the Jesuit. And what do the Jesuits call themselves? They claim to be PERINDE AC CADAVER or to be dead to their own will and obedient to the Pope as if they are a CORPSE to be carried by his will.

This is the ultimate proof that this line of thought is from God...

In Matthew 24 verse three the disciples asked Jesus "what shall be the sign of your coming and the end of the age?" and in verse 28 Jesus gave the very last sign that would herald His return. He said, "Where the CORPSE is there the eagle will gather."

Pope Francis is the Jesuit Corpse. He is the eighth and final pope. And look at everything happening right now rushing us on to the final events. When He spoke to congress in 2017 it was the first time any pope had been permitted to speak to a joint session of Congress in history and they honored him with a bill congratulating him for being the first Jesuit Pope and the first from OUT OF Europe, exactly as the prophecy of Revelation 17:11 predicted. The word used for 'OF' in Revelation 17:11 is the Greek word EK, which Thayers and Styrongs say is the most under-translated word in the New Testament. It shows origin and means for something that was once part of the body to be reinstated, and the Jesuits had been exiled from Europe until the sixth king John Paul II reinstated them. So Pope Francis being a Jesuit perfectly fits this prophecy. And guess who it was that JPII visited when he reinstated the Jesuits to Rome?
[Linked Image]

Here are the Eagles gathering to the corpse.[Linked Image]

Last edited by RighteousnessBF; 01/23/21 10:51 AM.

Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 03/27/24 09:35 AM
Are the words in the Bible "imperfect"?
by Kevin H. 03/24/24 09:02 PM
The Story of David and Goliath
by ProdigalOne. 03/23/24 08:06 PM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 03/22/24 10:17 AM
Carbon Dioxide What's so Bad about It?
by kland. 03/21/24 12:34 PM
The Value of Bible Types
by TruthinTypes. 03/17/24 06:22 PM
Orion Which Every One on the Globe Can See
by Rick H. 03/16/24 06:26 PM
'Prophet' Summons UFOs
by ProdigalOne. 03/16/24 02:19 AM
Will You Take The Wuhan Virus Vaccine?
by dedication. 03/11/24 06:31 PM
Get That Razor Wire Up!
by kland. 03/05/24 12:49 PM
Messages for This Time
by ProdigalOne. 03/04/24 05:54 AM
The Lake of Fire is Hell
by Rick H. 03/02/24 05:01 PM
Adventist Agriculture
by kland. 02/29/24 12:33 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
The Wound Is Healed! The Mark Is Forming!
by Rick H. 03/27/24 10:36 PM
Are we seeing a outpouring of the Holy Spirit?
by Rick H. 03/24/24 06:50 PM
Time Is Short!
by Rick H. 03/24/24 06:45 PM
Climate Change and the Sunday Law
by Rick H. 03/24/24 06:42 PM
WHAT IS THE VERY END-TIME PROPHECY?
by Rick H. 03/23/24 06:03 PM
Digital Identity Control
by Rick H. 03/23/24 02:08 PM
A.I. - The New God?
by Rick H. 03/23/24 01:59 PM
Christian Nationalism/Sunday/C
limate Change

by ProdigalOne. 03/16/24 08:38 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by Rick H. 03/16/24 06:30 PM
Is There A Connection Between WO & LGBTQ?
by Kevin H. 03/12/24 09:20 PM
A Second American Civil War?
by Daryl. 03/04/24 06:14 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1