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Will the Loud Cry repeat of the Three Angels' Messages be the same as the first? #193588
01/30/21 06:39 PM
01/30/21 06:39 PM
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RighteousnessBF  Offline OP
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The Seventh-day Adventist church has forgotten its origins.

Not in the way many today attack the church, claiming that we were originally Arian or anti-trinitarian, these issues were dealt with directly by God through the Testimonies.

But the issue that is heavy on my heart is something that God put on their hearts from the beginning. They claimed that this teaching was an actual part of the Three Angels Messages. This issue is on the seven heads of Revelation 17. Their teaching on this issue was claimed to be inspired by God and part of the Midnight Cry proclamation of the Three Angels Messages, so why would it not be part of the end-time proclamation of this message in strength?

Quote
In advocating the view that the seven heads of the dragon of Revelation 12- represent seven forms of government that have existed in the Roman Empire, the writer deems it necessary to remind the reader that he is not dealing in novelties. He is not introducing a new view to appeal to the curiosity of the reader, and to cater to the not always healthy excitement of pursuing a line of thought because it is strange. But the view which will be advocated in this paper is one which has characterized the Adventist movement from the beginning, through the first, second, and third messages, to the present time, and is only beginning within a few years to be called in question. Nor can the view be said to be peculiar to Adventists in its historical aspect, - a scheme devised by them to meet their peculiar views of prophecy, -for scholars declared before the Adventist movement began, that Rome had presented to the world, as a unique and marvelous feature of history, seven distinct forms of government. All that the Adventists did, was to say, as the most natural thing in the world, that if Rome did have seven forms of government, the seven heads of the dragon, which was a symbol of Rome, must be designed to represent that fact? one of the earliest Protestant commentators, Osiander, as early as 1511, names the whole seven as we have them; namely, Kings, Consuls, Decemvirs, Dictators, Triumvirs, Emperors, and Popes, as the forms of Roman government represented by the seven heads of the dragon of Revelation 12... Adventists, under the first message, at once adopted this view.? {Uriah Smith; The Seven Heads of Revelation}


Quote
I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird." "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." Revelation 18:1, 2, 4. {GC 603.1}
This scripture points forward to a time when the announcement of the fall of Babylon, as made by the second angel of Revelation 14 (verse 8), is to be repeated, with the additional mention of the corruptions which have been entering the various organizations that constitute Babylon, since that message was first given, in the summer of 1844.

I believe that because this teaching has been forgotten and not preached since the days of the Adventist Pioneers, this part of the messages, along with the "the additional mention of the corruptions which have been entering the various organizations that constitute Babylon, since that message was first given, in the summer of 1844." will swell the 3 Angels' Messages into the loud cry.

This one teaching completely changes the perspective of current events in light of end-time prophecy. So why do most of you teach contrary to this teaching?


Re: Will the Loud Cry repeat of the Three Angels' Messages be the same as the first? [Re: RighteousnessBF] #193589
01/30/21 07:07 PM
01/30/21 07:07 PM
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RighteousnessBF  Offline OP
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If the seven heads of the Dragon DO represent the seven different forms of Roman Government from their inception to the end of time, then what other prophetic principles would apply here? How would this force you to change your views on the seven heads?

They all also claimed that Revelations 12, 13 & 17 represent three different phases to the Roman beast with seven heads and ten horns.

The Millerite Rules of Prophetic Interpretation says 11. How to know when a word is used figuratively: If it makes good sense as it stands, and does
no violence to the simple laws of nature, then it must be understood literally; if not, figuratively
.
Revelation 12:1, 2; 17:3-7

Since Imperial Rome is called the city of Seven Hills (not including the Vatican across the Tiber River) then this prophetic principle demands that we interpret this text literally as seven kings that reign after they regain the seat of the Dragon within the city of Seven Hills which both occurred beginning in the Lateran Treaty of 1929. So how could this not be the correct application?

Since the Last head of Revelation 12 is the POPES we move on to Revelation 13 and 17 with this last head in focus and the prophecy moves forward to amplify this power. Prophecy NEVER prophesies about the fallen kingdoms that are in the past.

Quote
No prophecy can be found dealing with subjects in that way: that is, introducing new symbols to represent old governments which had had their day, and passed away, never again to appear among men. What conceivable reason could there be for prophecy thus to deal with them? Prophecy relates to the future from the time it is given not to the past. It only goes back far enough into the past to show the grounds for the future events which it predicts, and to identify the symbols which it introduces. Of this, we have an illustration in Rev. 12:1, 2. And just as soon as a nation has performed its part and passed away, it is dropped out of the chain of events, and the prophecy goes on with the future.
[?7 HEADS? p. 5 Para. 2].


So why would the previous six heads retain the same meaning once they have fallen and the prophecy has moved to the next phase?

Re: Will the Loud Cry repeat of the Three Angels' Messages be the same as the first? [Re: RighteousnessBF] #193590
01/30/21 07:09 PM
01/30/21 07:09 PM
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RighteousnessBF  Offline OP
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Most of you claim, as most pastors of today do, that the seven heads are fallen world empires since Babylon or Assyria, etc. Why would God give a brand new symbol for these ancient kingdoms? And why would they be included in a future prophecy? This does damage to our prophetic mission.

Re: Will the Loud Cry repeat of the Three Angels' Messages be the same as the first? [Re: RighteousnessBF] #193598
01/31/21 06:58 AM
01/31/21 06:58 AM
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Quote
Why would God give a brand new symbol for these ancient kingdoms? And why would they be included in a future prophecy?

That is a good question.

In this post I'd like to explore U.Smith's reason for challenging what many Adventists now believe (as per your quote from his book -- "Seven Heads of Revelation p, 5" ) which basically asks the same question.
Originally Posted by U.Smith
,,,the view that the seven heads of the dragon of Revelation 12 represent seven forms of government that were developed in the Roman Empire alone, is now called in question,,,,

According to this [new] view, contrary to all precedent, the scope of this vision was retroactive, going back not merely to the beginning of the history of the then current government, but away outside of its limits, to take in the great governments of the earth, which had been already symbolized in prophecy, some of them three times over, and which had passed away centuries before, never again to appear or to have any influence among men. Such kingdoms as these, it is contended, are included among the heads of the dragon, the new enumeration being given as follows: 1. Babylon; 2. Medo-Persia; 3. Grecia; 4. Rome pagan; 5. Rome papal; 6. ??Atheist / protestant Europe 7. A future head yet unknown; 8. The papacy restored.

No prophecy can be found dealing with subjects in that way: that is, introducing new symbols to represent old governments which had had their day, and passed away, never again to appear among men. What conceivable reason could there be for prophecy thus to deal with them? Prophecy relates to the future from the time it is given not to the past.


In reading the context we see that U.Smith was not happy that some of his colleagues were questioning the position that seven Roman governments represented the seven heads.
He hotly disagreed with those who suggested the heads represented Babylon, Media/Persia. Greece, Pagan Rome, Papal Rome, Atheist/protestant Europe/ .

Was he right, or wrong to react this way?

Read these points and see if these kingdoms fit?

1. What is the woman's name -- riding on the beast?
It is Mystery BABYLON the Great.

2. God's endtime people are being called out of BABYLON.
That's part of the three angel's messages.
BABYLON has fallen.

3. What's the name of that "great city" in Revelation that stands against God's citizens?
18:10 Alas, alas that great city BABYLON, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

4. Who is the king of BABYLON"
Satan
Isaiah 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased! 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer,

Thus we see Satan's earthly kingdom from ancient Babylon to endtime Babylon.

The influences of these nations is not dead, it is not gone.
History reveals the building of the GREAT ENDTIME BABYLON who takes much of the ancient Babylonian priesthood and mysteries, the Persians claim to infallibility, the Greeks philosophy, Roman strength, and revolutionary spirit from France.

Revelation 17 is Not concerned with speculation as to dates, but rather to
WORSHIP -- a counterfeit worship of Babylon.
--Satan's big achievement of building a huge system moves from Babylon to Babylon.









Re: Will the Loud Cry repeat of the Three Angels' Messages be the same as the first? [Re: RighteousnessBF] #193599
01/31/21 10:56 AM
01/31/21 10:56 AM
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RighteousnessBF  Offline OP
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But you are skipping the REASON why he was upset that others were neglecting the exegesis. You obviously did not do the research here so let me fill you in.

1. show me anywhere else in bible prophecy where a 'head' on a beast is another kingdom. In Daniel the head of the great image symbolized first "Nebuchadnezzar" (you oh king are that head of gold) then it symbolized his kingdom. The four heads of the Grecian leopard beast first represent the four generals after Alexander with whom that kingdom was divided, then it represents the four divisions itself. There is absolutely no precedence where a head riding any beast represents another kingdom.

2. nowhere else in prophecy does God give a NEW SYMBOL to an ancient kingdom (you missed this the first time so I reiterated). In fact, in Daniel after Babylon fell, we never see it mentioned in any prophecy ever again. The fallen church is called Babylon but this is not literal Babylon which is NEVER mentioned again in ANY prophecy. Why would God prophesy about a kingdom that will never rise again? Babylon was prophesied that it would never arise again.

3. The symbols used for Greece (leopard), Babylon (Lion) and Medo-Persia (Bear) are used to represent the new kingdom of Spiritual Babylon with their attributes but this is qualified with the preposition 'like unto a leopard' or the conjunction 'as', as in "and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion".

4.Next and obviously totally overlooked by you and everyone else, we find this most important element... There are three beasts in Revelation with seven heads and ten horns. EVERY Protestant Expositor said the dragon in Revelation 12 represents Pagan Rome who tried to kill Jesus as a baby and nailed Him to the cross. If you follow that this Dragon gives its seat to the next beast with seven heads and ten horns and gave its SEAT to that kingdom with seven heads and ten horns, we find that it is perfectly fulfilled in the Papal Roman Empire. "And the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority." Now we follow that seat, which was the Roman toilet used by the guards that murdered Jesus. Its sits within the seven hills hallowed by the Pagan gods in ancient Rome. No other kingdom ruled there. Only Pagan Rome. The seven heads are called those seven hills in revelation 17. Are you going to tell me another kingdom, e.g. Babylon ruled from those seven hills?

You do damage to the bible and defend it.

Re: Will the Loud Cry repeat of the Three Angels' Messages be the same as the first? [Re: RighteousnessBF] #193600
01/31/21 11:11 AM
01/31/21 11:11 AM
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RighteousnessBF  Offline OP
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Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

Rome has been called the City of Seven Hills (Septem colles/montes Romae) since before the ministry of Christ and it is mentioned as such in the Great Controversy.

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

3. I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

If the woman is also that great city which sits on the seven hills then how could those heads represent any other kingdom but the one that she rules? This is the blending of church and state in ROME! Also, since this is speaking directly to the church of Papal Rome, then those seven heads which also represent seven kings must be from the timeframe after she is restored after the deadly wound inflicted in Chapter 13.


No other kingdom has ever ruled from those seven hills except Pagan Rome which gave its seat to the beast.

You neglect ALL of these significant issues in your interpretation. In fact, your interpretation neuters the prophecy.

Re: Will the Loud Cry repeat of the Three Angels' Messages be the same as the first? [Re: RighteousnessBF] #193607
01/31/21 06:10 PM
01/31/21 06:10 PM
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Yes, it was late last night so didn't fully get through the reasoning.
Revelation 17 is one that I've long wrestled with, not feeling fully convinced with any interpretation of either U.Smith or others.

I realize you are fully convinced what you have found is the truth. I however can't be "forced" into accepting any interpretation. I need to be convinced myself what is correct and so far the "kingdoms" building up the mystical/religious endtime Babylon make the most sense to me.

I've always been highly suspicious (long before you came) of any interpretation that tries to name a last person as pope or president, or antichrist, and yes, many DIFFERENT people, with different reasoning, have presented studies trying to identify these.

Yes, I realize you are focusing on the popes, not the presidents.
I realize you agree with the pioneers that the dragon's seven heads are the seven forms of Roman government.
You then seem to take the seventh dragon head (papal Rome) and divide it into seven new heads on papal beast in Rev. 13
(that one is confusing for me as it seems to make a very large number of popes -- those before 1798 -- into seven heads)
You then say the seventh head of Rev. 13 is actually a single pope ---Pius VI in 1798-- marking the end of 40 month (1260 year) period.
For the beast of Rev. 17 you start with the pope who received the Lateran Treaty, Pius XI, as the first of it's seven heads, and make all the seven heads, single popes, with the additional eighth being Pope Francis.


Now, it also puzzles me that you base so much on staying with the early pioneers interpretation, yet move totally away from their reasoning on several points.
1. In identifying the seven heads of the Rev. 13, and Rev. 17 beasts, the pioneers held that ALL three had the SAME seven heads of seven forms of Roman government.
2. The pioneers strongly disagreed that the seven mountains were the seven hills of Rome.
3. They maintained that Babylon is much larger than the Roman .

Originally Posted by U.Smith
The inquiries therefore naturally follow: What is meant by the term Babylon? what is its fall? and how is it fulfilled? As to the etymology of the word, we learn something from the marginal readings of Gen.10:10 and 11:9. The beginning of Nimrod's kingdom was Babel, or Babylon; and the place was so called because God there confounded the language of the builders of the tower; and the word means confusion. The word is here used figuratively to designate the great symbolic city of the book of Revelation, probably with special reference to the signification of the term, and the circumstances from which it originated. It applies to something on which, as specifying its chief characteristic, may be written the word "confusion." {1897 UrS, DAR 647.4} (page 648 picture)

There are but three possible objects to which the word can be applied; and these are (1) the apostate religious world in general, (2) the papal church in particular, and (3) the city of Rome. In examining these terms, we shall first show what Babylon is not. {1897 UrS, DAR 649.1}
1. Babylon is not confined to the Romish Church. That this church is a very prominent component part of great Babylon, is not denied. The descriptions of chapter 17 seem to apply very particularly to that church. But the name which she bears on her forehead, "Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth," reveals other family connections. If this church is the mother, who are the daughters? The fact that these daughters are spoken of, shows that there are other religious bodies besides the Romish Church which come under this designation. Again, there is to be a call made in connection with this message, "Come out of her, my people" (Rev.18:1-4); and as this message is located in the present generation, it follows, if no other church but the Romish is included in Babylon, that the people of God, as a body, are now found in the communion of that church, and are to be called out. But this conclusion, no Protestant at least will be willing to adopt. {1897 UrS, DAR 649.2}

2. Babylon is not the city of Rome. The argument relied upon to show that the city of Rome is the Babylon of the Apocalypse runs thus: "The angel told John that the woman which he had seen was the great city which reigned over the kings of the earth, and that the seven heads of the beast are seven mountains upon which the woman sitteth." And then, taking the city and the mountains to be literal, and finding Rome built upon just seven hills, the application is made at once to literal Rome. {1897 UrS, DAR 649.3}
The principle upon which this interpretation rests is the assumption that the explanation of a symbol must always be
650
literal. It falls to the ground the moment it can be shown that symbols are sometimes explained by substituting for them other symbols, and then explaining the latter. This can easily be done. In Rev.11:3, the symbol of the two witnesses is introduced. The next verse reads: "These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth." In this case the first symbol is said to be the same as another symbol which is elsewhere clearly explained. So in the case before us. "The seven heads are seven mountains," and "The woman is that great city;" and it will not be difficult to show that the mountains and the city are both used symbolically. The reader's attention is asked to the following points:- {1897 UrS, DAR 649.4}

(1) We are informed in chapter 13 that one of the seven heads was wounded to death. This head therefore cannot be a literal mountain; for it would be folly to speak of wounding a mountain to death. {1897 UrS, DAR 650.1}

(2) Each of the seven heads has a crown upon it. But who ever saw a literal mountain with a crown upon it? {1897 UrS, DAR 650.2}

(3) The seven heads are evidently successive in order of time; for we read, "Five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come." Revelation 17. But the seven hills on which Rome is built are not successive, and it would be absurd to apply such language to them. {1897 UrS, DAR 650.3}

(4) According to Dan.7:6, compared with DAn.8:8,22, heads denote governments; and according to Dan.2:35,44; Jer.51:25, mountains denote kingdoms. According to these facts, the version of Rev.17:9,10 given by Professor Whiting, which is a literal translation of the text, removes all obscurity: "The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sitteth, and they are seven kings." It will thus be seen that the angel represents the heads as mountains, and then explains the mountains to be seven successive kings, or forms of government. The meaning is transferred from one symbol to another, and then an explanation is given of the second symbol. {1897 UrS, DAR 650.4}

From the foregoing argument, it follows that the "woman" cannot represent a literal city; for the mountains upon which the woman sitteth being symbolic, a literal city cannot sit
651
upon symbolic mountains. Again, Rome was the seat of the dragon of chapter 12, and this was transferred to the beast (Rev.13:2), thus becoming the seat of the beast; but it would be a singular mixture of figures to take the seat, which is sat upon by the beast, and make that a woman sitting upon the beast. {1897 UrS, DAR 650.5}

(5) Were the city of Rome the Babylon of the Apocalypse, what nonsense should we have in chapter 18:1-4; for in this case the fall of Babylon would be the overthrow and destruction of the city, in fact, its utter consumption by fire, according to verse 8. But mark what takes place after the fall. Babylon becomes a habitation of devils, the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. How can this happen to a city after that city is destroyed, even being utterly burned with fire? But worse still, after all this a voice is heard, saying, "Come out of her, my people." Are God's people in Rome? - Not to any great extent, even in her best estate. But how many can we suppose to be there, to be called out, after the city is burned with fire? It is not necessary to say more to show that Babylon cannot be the city of Rome. {1897 UrS, DAR 651.1}

3. Babylon signifies the universal worldly church. Having seen that it cannot be any one of the only other three possible objects to which it could be applied, it must mean this. But we are not left to this a priori kind of reasoning on this subject. Babylon is called a woman. A woman, used as a symbol, signifies a church. The woman of chapter 12 was interpreted to mean a church. The woman of chapter 17 should undoubtedly be interpreted as signifying also a church. The character of the woman determines the character of the church represented, a chaste woman standing for a pure church, a vile woman for an impure or apostate church. The woman Babylon is herself a harlot, and the mother of daughters like herself. This circumstance, as well as the name itself, shows that Babylon is not limited to any single ecclesiastical body, but must be composed of many. It must take in all of a like nature, and represent the entire corrupt or apostate church of the earth. This will perhaps explain the language of Rev. 18:24,
652
which represents that when God makes requisition upon great Babylon for the blood of his martyrs, in her will be found "the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all" that have been slain upon the earth.
The Greek Church is the established church of Russia and Greece; the Lutheran Church is the established church of Prussia, Holland, Sweden, Norway, and a part of the smaller German states; England has Episcopacy for her state religion, and other countries have their established religions, and zealously oppose dissenters. Babylon has made all nations drunken with the wine of her fornication, that is, her false doctrines; it can therefore symbolize nothing less than the universal worldly church. {1897 UrS, DAR 651.2}
The great city, Babylon, is spoken of as composed of three divisions. So the great religions of the world may be arranged under three heads. The first, oldest, and most wide-spread is paganism, separately symbolized under the form of a dragon; the second is the great Romish apostasy, symbolized by the beast; and the third is the daughters, or descendants from that church. Under this head comes the two-horned beast, though that does not embrace it all. War, oppression, conformity to the world, the worship of mammon, the creed-power, pursuit of pleasure, and the maintenance of very many errors of the old Romish Church, identify, with sad and faithful accuracy, the great body of the Protestant churches as an important constituent part of this great Babylon. {1897 UrS, DAR 652.1}

The reasoning in that book is interesting! Obviously he studied the prophecies deeply. But I think you and I should agree that while we hold them up as good Biblical scholars searching for truth and worthy to be studied yet their conclusions are not always the final answer.
Hopefully you can see that you, yourself, while accepting their starting point, have not followed their path in your interpretation.

Even U.Smith seems to be departing from the standard identification of the heads in the above quote -- He seemed to be saying three of the heads represent
1. Pagan Religions
2. Roman Church
3. Apostate Protestantism
thus putting dragon, 1st beast of Rev. 13 and 2nd beast in Rev. 13 as "heads"?????
Yet that doesn't really fit with his definition of "mountains" which he spends quite a bit of time defining earlier in that same section.

Anyway -- this post is long. I realize I only gave some background for my answers, but still haven't answered your questions, but will attempt to do so soon.

Re: Will the Loud Cry repeat of the Three Angels' Messages be the same as the first? [Re: RighteousnessBF] #193608
01/31/21 10:03 PM
01/31/21 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by RighteousnessBF
1. show me anywhere else in bible prophecy where a 'head' on a beast is another kingdom.

Good question.
Do we first identify the beast, or the heads? Of course we must first identify the beast upon whom the heads reside! They need be part of the kingdom.

I'll start with the Dragon and his seven heads.

Who is the Dragon?
We don't have to look far for the interpretation of the symbol "dragon". The same chapter gives us the interpretation:
"that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world (Rev. 12:9)
So -- the Dragon IS NOT ROME. The dragon represents the kingdom which Satan is seeking to establish over the whole world! It's about the conflict between Christ and Satan which started in heaven where Satan wanted to usurp the throne of God.
ROME is only a "secondary" application -- Rome is symbolized in the HEADS on the Dragon. Rome is part of the dragon but Rome is NOT the dragon.
Pagan Rome was the fourth "HEAD" on the dragon that tried to destroy Christ while HE was on earth.
Originally Posted by EGW

A demon became the central power in the world. Where God's throne should have been, Satan placed his throne. The world laid its homage, as a willing offering, at the feet of the enemy. {CT 33.1}
Satan became the avowed antagonist of Christ. On the earth he planted the standard of rebellion, and round it his sympathizers rallied (MS 78, 1905).
He seduced the people to bow to idols, and thus gain supremacy over earthly kingdoms. He considered that to be the god of this world was the next best thing to gaining possession of the throne of God in heaven. In a large measure he has been successful in his plans. {RH April 14, 1896)
Christ says: "Where Satan has set his throne, there shall stand My cross. Satan shall be cast out, and I will be lifted up to draw all men unto Me. (6T 347)


This is what the three angel's messages is all about! A demon, the dragon, Satan has set up his kingdom upon the earth. He gained supremacy over earthly kingdoms, He has set up his throne on earth. He was accepted as the RULER and ultimate king, over these kingdoms. They were all part of the dragon's domain.
Rev. 12 depicts Satan's desperate attempts to destroy the ONE WHO has come to reclaim the kingdom through Calvary.

SO what are these kingdoms over which the dragon has gained supremacy? What are his heads through which he works?
Yes, these heads need to be the chief kingdoms THROUGH Whom the dragon, who has set up his throne over them, works.

Thus yes, my earlier answer fits when one realizes the true identity of the dragon.
The heads need to be subjects of the dragon, not subjects of Rome.
Now we can identify the heads of the dragon.

The beginning kingdom was Nimrod's Babel or Babylon, it laid the foundation of FALSE WORSHIP and Babylon is the first head in the DRAGON'S kingdom.

The heads are symbolic of all the great earthly kingdoms that were directly used by Satan in his attempt to destroy God's people and the truth about God.
Satan's Babylonian kingdom starts with ancient Babylon and ends with mystic Babylon.
The first four heads all had their seat in paganism, but then the dragon gave THE PAGAN seat of his fourth head, to a "Christian" institution, which became his fifth head! Gave the pope even the Babylonian title as high priest and leader. The papal title Pontifex Maximus can be traced back in different forms to the ancient Babylon times.

When one understands the dragon as Satan's usurped kingdom over the earth. There is no problem with the sixth head being the beast that came up at the same time the fifth head received a deadly wound. The sixth head speaks as and for the dragon. This sixth head has a huge role in setting up mystical Babylon, healing the wounded fifth head making it possible to bring in the seventh head.

The seventh head is restored Mystical Babylon.
The cycle seeks completion -- from Babylon to restored Babylon.

All the beasts have only seven heads.
When it speaks of the eighth it is the dragon himself pretending to be Christ.
His ultimate attempt to gain absolute rulership over the earth.

Originally Posted by righteousnessBF
EVERY Protestant Expositor said the dragon in Revelation 12 represents Pagan Rome who tried to kill Jesus as a baby and nailed Him to the cross.

If this is true, then every expositor hasn't read all the dragon does in Revelation 12.
Pagan Rome is just ONE OF THE DRAGON'S HEADS that was present when Christ lived on earth, and yes, it was pagan Rome through which the dragon worked during that time, but there is no way pagan Rome did everything the dragon is said to do in Revelation 12.



Re: Will the Loud Cry repeat of the Three Angels' Messages be the same as the first? [Re: RighteousnessBF] #193610
01/31/21 11:44 PM
01/31/21 11:44 PM
R
RighteousnessBF  Offline OP
Regular Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 81
Vancouver
Quote
the Dragon IS NOT ROME.


I'm sorry, but I have to ask, are you even a Seventh-Day Adventist? Or is it your duty to test the remnant? Do you even bother reading the Testimonies before you speak? Or do you believe that you are above the Testimonies?


Quote
The line of prophecy in which these symbols are found begins with Revelation 12, with the dragon that sought to destroy Christ at His birth. The dragon is said to be Satan (Revelation 12:9); he it was that moved upon Herod to put the Saviour to death. But the chief agent of Satan in making war upon Christ and His people during the first centuries of the Christian Era was the Roman Empire, in which paganism was the prevailing religion. Thus while the dragon, primarily, represents Satan, it is, in a secondary sense, a symbol of pagan Rome. {GC 438.2}


But you know better right Dedication?

Next, you will be insisting that the image to the beast is not the United States.

Re: Will the Loud Cry repeat of the Three Angels' Messages be the same as the first? [Re: RighteousnessBF] #193611
01/31/21 11:47 PM
01/31/21 11:47 PM
R
RighteousnessBF  Offline OP
Regular Member
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 81
Vancouver
Pagan Rome gave the beast its seat, (throne) within the city of seven hills. There were literally over a million people who lost their life espousing this great truth yet you sit here and spew your contempt on the reformers. I am literally shocked that you have a leadership role here.

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