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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #193699
02/12/21 07:14 PM
02/12/21 07:14 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
At the seventh seal breaking, the sealing work should be completed upon God's people.
One at a time Jesus breaks the seven sealed book in the throne room ever since He ascended to heaven. At the same time, the four angels are commended to hold the four winds of the four corners of the earth so that the sealing can be completed.

We should bear in mind that what happens in heaven intimately connected with what happens on the earth: Jesus is breaking each seal, in the same time, preliminary judgment on the earth happens, which culminates in the final sealing of God (eschatological sealing).

When would the hurt of trees and all green grass will utterly happen? I think when the seventh seal is broken.

We know that the judgment comes from the throne of God. The progression from one to the other breaking the seal is made all the more powerful. The Lamb initiates the event, and the divine passive "was given" (Rev. 6:2, 4, 8) controls the action. In other words, Christ controls the process from the throne of God, and the living creature commands the situation.

The four living creatures will loose their hold, as described in Rev. 9:14-15, when God commends them from the temple, the throne room. They will obey immediately and let go of the restraints at the end of the borderline, which is symbolically said of the great river Euphrates.

The Seven Trumpets are clearly announcing the close of probation to us. We must have ears to hear what the Spirit says to the Church.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #193745
02/18/21 10:36 PM
02/18/21 10:36 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
The major section of the seven trumpets has a structural evidence that depicts the close of probation.

Jesus is ministering before the throne with the prayers of saints and then, casting down ashes from the altar. This snapshot is the introduction of the seven trumpets, which speaks of the cessation of His intercessory work.

The body of the seven trumpets has to fit the introduction snapshot.

Each of the seven angels is sounding the warning in the midst of heaven with a loud voice:"And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!"

The sounding angels signify God's people who have been sealed. In other words, if one is not sealed, they would not know what to sound for a warning.

The first three trumpet warnings are related to health message, in reference of "became blood."

The next three trumpet warnings impact spiritual dimension:
4th trumpet=>those who are not sealed, they seek to die, but death flees from them.
5th trumpet=>the beast from the bottomless pit torments people who are not sealed.
6th trumpet=>release the four angels because the sealing work is done. (depicts clear indication of the close of probation.)
7th trumpet=>"The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ" (Rev. 11:15).

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #193791
02/24/21 10:27 PM
02/24/21 10:27 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
In the fifth trumpet, one that comes out from the bottomless pit creates a smokescreen which causes darkness.

We find two verses in Revelation telling us that the Beast ascends from the bottomless pit:
Rev. 11:7 "the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them"

Rev. 17:8 "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition"

The Beast is clearly unmasked in Chapter 13: he is the one who received his power, his seat and great authority (Rev. 13:2) from the Dragon of Chap. 12.

The fifth trumpet warns that the Beast torments people who do not have the seal of God (Rev. 9:4) for five months, which is prophetically 150 years.

The preaching of the Seal of God with a loud voice begun after 1844 by the Seventh-day Adventist in the scope of world-wide more than 150 years.
If anyone rejects the seventh-day Sabbath of the living God, they would be tormented by the Beast's oppression.

The implication of imposing the counterfeit Sabbath is the fifth plague upon the Beast.
The fifth plague is poured out upon the seat of the Beast: "the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain" (Rev. 16:10).

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #193796
02/25/21 11:56 AM
02/25/21 11:56 AM
Daryl  Offline

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23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,118
Nova Scotia, Canada
When did the seven last plagues begin to fall?

In other words, when did the first plague take place?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #193800
02/25/21 06:40 PM
02/25/21 06:40 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
Hi Darryl,

Are you asking, in your presupposition that the seven plagues fall in sequential order?
You have asked "when did the first plague take place?"

Do you see the signs of the first plague already exist in the world?
Rev. 16:2 "And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image."

The first trumpet warns of the third of humanity will be hurt by the first plague.
rev. 8:7 "The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up."

1st plague=> upon the earth
1st trumpet=> upon the earth

The phrase of 1/3 of trees and all green grass was burnt up depicts a divine determination. The third part of trees and green grass represent humanity those who did not receive the seal of God.

"A noisome and grievous sore upon the men" indicate health issues without a shadow of doubt. Is 1/3 of humanity dying with health problem in our days?

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #193801
02/25/21 10:14 PM
02/25/21 10:14 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,118
Nova Scotia, Canada
I asked as according to EGW, the seven last plagues haven;t begun to fall yet:

At the general conference of believers in the present truth, held at Sutton, Vermont, September, 1850, I was shown that the seven last plagues will be poured out after Jesus leaves the sanctuary. Said the angel, "It is the wrath of God and the Lamb that causes the destruction or death of the wicked. At the voice of God the saints will be mighty and terrible as an army with banners, but they will not then execute the judgment written. The execution of the judgment will be at the close of the one thousand years." {EW 52.1}


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #193832
02/28/21 01:04 AM
02/28/21 01:04 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
In perspective of the climax of seven plagues, EGW statement is not incorrect. But it is not necessarily mean that the seven last plagues will fall all at once and every where simultaneously. (EGW said somewhere that the plagues will fall partially.)
The seven last plagues will pour out in a maximized proportion when Jesus declares "It is done," which is mentioned in the seventh plague. EGW must have seen the final point of the seven plagues since she stated that after Jesus leaves the sanctuary, after He declares "It is done."

EGW wrote that things will happen trumpet after trumpet and plague after plague. (LDE 238)

The 4th and 5th plagues mention about the wicked "not repent" but "blaspheme" God. In the seventh plague, the wicked blaspheme God but "not repent" is not mentioned at this point (Rev. 16) for Jesus declared already "It is done," and the probation is over.

When the 4th and 5th mention "not repent," it implies that if they repent, they would receive God's forgiveness.

A delineation between those who received the mark of the beast and worship the beast will be distinctively clear as day from night at the climax of the first plague.

We need to keep in mind that the enforcing the mark of the beast and demanding worship of the beast take a process of time which will happen in a world wide scale through its deception. I think that the work of the deception is permeated every aspect of our life right now. Therefore, I believe that we must sound the seven trumpets message clear and loud: repent before the close of probation now!

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #193869
03/11/21 07:30 AM
03/11/21 07:30 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
The work of blaspheme originates on the seven heads of the sea beast in Rev. 13:1.

"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy." Rev. 13:1

Upon the heads of the sea beast, "the name of blasphemy" is written. The sea beast is the distinct entity that would enforce the mark of the beast. (See Rev. 13). Why the seven heads on the beast? First of all, he is a vicegerent of the Dragon who also has seven heads. We need to look out for a pattern that parallels in similarity in order to interpret right.

Rev. 12:3 "And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads."

Secondly, the beast attacks the seven churches relentlessly, which is the counterpart that persecutes the church ever since Jesus established His church after the cross until the second coming. Therefore, Jesus sends encouragement and comfort to the seven churches to withstand the blaspheming power over the seven historical church periods.

Thirdly, those who blaspheme God, they do not repent even the seven last plagues fall.

Rev. 16:8-11
"And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.

And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds."

Lastly, God's wrath will pour out to the sea beast by declaring "It is done" and no more mercies of God after the seven church periods to those who blaspheme His name, which happens at the seventh plague.

Rev. 16:21 "And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great."

The second coming of Jesus is a most severe judgment of the wrath of God to the most wicked people. In contrast, the most righteous of 144K will see Christ coming with the clouds of angels, and the great multitudes will resurrect to meet Him.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #193897
03/17/21 10:06 AM
03/17/21 10:06 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
God's purpose of giving the book of Revelation is for us to discern the deception of the beast and equip us to make war with the beast. Dragon has already declared war with the remnant of those who keep the commandments of God and has the testimony of Jesus. He has given his power, his seat, and his authority to the beast.

Rev. 12:17 "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Rev. 13:2b "the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority."

We can recognize the beast's true character and identity in that he blasphemes God's name, which is the Sabbath, consistently pointed out in Revelation. The beast represents the Catholic church. During the Middle Age, the Catholic Church exercised its supreme power to obscure the true Sabbath and persecuted saints.

Revelation speaks to us that the beast has not ceased the work of the blaspheming God's name, he will not, until the Second Coming.
Rev. 13:5a "And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies"
Rev. 13:6 "And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven."

If the saints do not discern the identity of the beast that God unfolds to us, we won't be able to make war with the beast. If we know crystal clear of him who blasphemes God's name, we would know how God wants us to make war with him. The Sunday Law was the beginning of the attack of God's name from the Constantine emperor's mandate until the beast enforcement of the mark of the beast at the end. This period sums up to 1500 years to our days.

It is significant to realize that five months of tormenting in Rev. 9:5, 10 have relevancy with 1500 years of the blaspheming God's name.
God gave time to repent, but "And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not" (Rev. 2:12).
Israel's sojourning in Egypt was 430 years, and they had to learn the Sabbath worship in the wilderness 40 years before entering the land of Canaan. This allusion matches 1500 years of obscuring the Sabbath to 150 years of proclaiming the Sabbath truth by the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
In other words, the Sabbath sealing message has been proclaimed by the Adventists ever since 1844, which amounted to over the five months of prophetic time or 150 years.

Rev. 9:4 "And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."

A confrontation between the beast and the remnant of the Sabbath-keepers are unavoidable before the Second Coming. If we don't have the vision that God provides in Revelation, we cannot make war with the beast for no one can't keep the law of God without vision.
Prov. 29:18 "Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he."

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #193931
03/28/21 11:55 AM
03/28/21 11:55 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
John 3:12 "If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?"

Revelation speaks about the beast's identity so clearly, but many hesitant to believe the things that God revealed in the Scripture. The beast of Rev. 13 is none other than the same conglomerate of the harlot woman in Rev. 17. We Adventists have been so afraid of him and fearful to offend the beast over the past few decades.

The OT allusion of Israelites who were so "dismayed, and greatly afraid" (1Sam 17:11) of the Philistines champion Goliath is the pattern that reminiscent of SDA's present time before the power of the beast. Israelites were shaken forty days, morning and evening, and this is similar to 40 years of SDA's struggle in making war with the beast.

The Philistine man was Goliath; David stood on the platform as the man for Israelites. 1 Sam. 17:8 "And he stood and cried unto the armies of Israel, and said unto them, Why are ye come out to set your battle in array? am not I a Philistine, and ye servants to Saul? choose you a man for you, and let him come down to me."

Goliath brought three weapons against the Israelites: sword, spear, and shield.
Sword, spear, and shield represent political, religious, and economic power which the beast exercises to exterminate God's remnant people.

Rev. 13:2b "...the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority."
Power = religious power
seat = political power
authority = economic power

David needed only one stone to struct down the Goliath from the five stones he picked up. SDA needs only one stone to cast the harlot "into the sea," which symbolically represents the law of God, especially the fourth commandment.

Rev. 18:21 "And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all."

"The key of David" (Rev. 3:7) is given to the seven churches: "...he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth."

Matt. 16:19 "And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." The Church has the key of the kingdom of heaven.

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