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Jesus coming again -- which view is Biblical? #193882
03/14/21 12:39 AM
03/14/21 12:39 AM
dedication  Offline OP
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Jesus is coming again.
The theme is taught by many different religious groups. Which view is biblical?

The Bible predicts that surely a day is coming when the knowledge of God shall cover the earth as the waters cover the sea, (Isaiah 11:9) as a mountain that will fill the earth (Daniel 2:35) when peace and righteousness (Isaiah 11:4-5l 2 Peter 3:13) shall prevail with no more war, sin, sickness, and evil. (Rev. 21:4) The day is coming when Christ will take the reigns of government into His hands (Rev. 11:15-16) Christ will come as Lord of lords and King of kings (Rev. 19:16)
and the kingdom of God will come on earth and His will be done. (Daniel 7:27)

However, -- does this all take place at Christ's second coming?
The views differ.

ADVENTIST UNDERSTANDING

1. A time of trouble precedes Christ's coming (Daniel 12:1, Matt. 24:21,29-30)

2. False Christ's' appear and pretend to set up the eternal kingdom (Matt.24:24,26, 1 Thess 5:3)
?with all power, signs, and lying wonders? and great deception and force (2 Thess. 2:9?10, Rev. 13)

3. The real Christ Jesus comes in full glory and power, with clouds and all His angels, and every eye will see Him. (Matt. 24:27,30, Matt. 26:64, Mark 13:26, Rev. 1:7)

4. The righteous dead are raised and with the translated living righteous meet the Lord in the air.
(1 Thess. 4:16-18, Matt. 24:31, Mark 13:27, 1 Cor. 15:51-54)

5. Jesus takes the saved people to heaven -- to His Father's house. To Jerusalem which is above. (John 14:1-3, Gal. 3:26, Isaiah 65:18-19)

6. Life on earth ceases for 1000 years. (Matt. 24:38-39, Rev. 6:15-16, Rev. 14:15-20. 2 Thess. 2:8, Rev. 19:21, Isaiah 24:1-3, Rev. 20:5}

7. After the 1000 years, the New Jerusalem, descends to earth, the wicked dead are raised, they try to take the city, but stand before the great white judgement throne, and fire devours them, and cleanses away all traces of sin. (Rev. 20)

8. The earth is made new, the eternal kingdom fills the earth, God sets up His throne here -- there is everlasting peace and righteousness -- no more tears, death, or sorrow! (Rev. 21-22, Isaiah 65:17-19, 2 Peter 3:13)

Re: Jesus coming again -- which view is Biblical? [Re: dedication] #193883
03/14/21 03:11 AM
03/14/21 03:11 AM
dedication  Offline OP
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Others understand this differently, there are quite a few interpretations. But here we'll deal with just two leading ones.

PREMILLINNIAL -- believes Christ comes before the 1000 years.
Adventists are Premillennial in their understanding, but rather unique in the rest of their interpretation of the Second Coming as you will see when you compare the above outline with the concepts below.



In the other premillennial groups their BIG DIFFERENCE with us, is
1. the leading interpretation that the millennium or 1000 years is a time when Christ rules here on earth
2. . The belief that the earth will still be populated by mortal (in the flesh) people. But it is a hoped for golden era; a time of universal peace.
3. That the earth is populated by undegenerated humans during 1000 years, who will be forced to serve Christ.

We see a large number of premillennial are also dispensationalists with the idea that Christ deals differently with the Israelite nation than with the Christian church. They believe God will still literally meet all the kingdom prophecies made to the Jews.

TRIBULATION AND RAPTURE
Tribulation theories generally have the believers in Christ raptured to heaven prior to a seven year tribulation, during which God will deal specifically with the Jews. (Though there are various divisions some believing it's mid-tribulation, etc)
The second coming, takes place after the seven years, when Christ sets up His 1000 year kingdom, centered in Palestine, Satan is bound, and the kingdoms of the earth are expected to accept and obey the Messiah.
A leading belief is that the raptured saints that return with Christ will have their "incorruptible bodies, and will reign with Christ. They are looking for two levels of human to be present in the world during those 1000 years. -


POSTMILLENNIAL -- believes Christ comes after the 1000 years.

The general idea there is that truth and goodness will be resurrected and the world will become better and better and when Christ comes He will usher in paradise in an already good world.

In a way this was introduced by Augustine.
Augustine's "thousand years" was a figurative numeral?an expression of the whole period between Christ's ministry and the end of the world. The Catholic Church was the "kingdom of Christ," and the church rulers were already sitting in judgment. To Augustine the triumph of Christianity seemed sure. The "beast" was the ungodly world.

The idea was later changed to the development of a future "pure church" to bring in the kingdom of Christ prior to Christ's second coming.

Through the elimination of war and evil, the world as well as the church will supposedly enter upon its golden age. Postmillennialism maintains that the millennium will be brought about simply by the operation of the Holy Spirit through the gospel and the regular agencies of grace. A Christian government will be established over the world.


MILLERISM
Was at odds with leading ideas of Christ's second coming.
It laid the foundation Adventists believe today concerning the Second Coming.


What are some of the dangers you see in these interpretations?

Re: Jesus coming again -- which view is Biblical? [Re: dedication] #193891
03/16/21 02:08 AM
03/16/21 02:08 AM
dedication  Offline OP
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One of the biggest points of confusion when talking about the second coming with other Christians often stems from the very different concepts of what happens when a person dies.

For Adventists the second coming is a great hope
-- To see and be with Jesus
-- The resurrection of dead restored to life and health-- and to be reunited with loved ones who have gone to grave!
-- The end of this sin sick world with its pain and misery and a new life in a better land.

But how does the different views on the state of the dead affect this glorious hope?

-- If people are already with Jesus, they don't have to wait for Jesus to come again?
-- what is the big deal about a resurrection if people don't really die?
-- and many of the common ideas do not see the second coming as the end of the world but a transition of government over the existing nations from human governors to Christ (or in some understandings the church) forcing all to live by the new government laws.
So then the first resurrection is thought to be only a providing of bodies for the people whose bodies had died, but who had been with Christ in heaven , but now needed a body so they could reign with Christ over the mortal inhabitants of the earth.

So it seems the "second coming" for many is but "a new world government" though not the dissolving of nations, but rather an overarching spiritual government over all the nation.,

But where is the glorious hope of the restoration of life for the dead who died in faith -- it's a whole DIFFERENT doctrine, though it uses the same words.

Re: Jesus coming again -- which view is Biblical? [Re: dedication] #193903
03/17/21 10:34 PM
03/17/21 10:34 PM
dedication  Offline OP
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SATAN'S AIM

Scripture (and especially Revelation) describes the great battle between Christ and Satan.
Going back to the beginning of this controversy we see Lucifer/Satan's aims.
He wants to be God. He wants the worship and position of God. Isaiah 14:13

"I will exalt my throne above the stars of God, I will sit on the mount of the congregation on the sides of the north. I will be like the Most High."

Revelation 12 we see his bitterest hatred is against Christ. There was war in heaven.

Quote
The influence of mind on mind, so strong a power for good when sanctified, is equally strong for evil in the hands of those opposed to God. This power Satan used in his work of instilling evil into the minds of the angels, and he made it appear that he was seeking the good of the universe. As the anointed cherub, Lucifer had been highly exalted; he was greatly loved by the heavenly beings, and his influence over them was strong. Many of them listened to his suggestions and believed his words. "And there was war in heaven; Michael and His angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought, and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven." {4MR 85.1}
Cast out of heaven, Satan set up his kingdom in this world, and ever since, he has been untiringly striving to seduce human beings from their allegiance to God. He uses the same power that he used in heaven--the influence of mind on mind. Men become tempters of their fellow men. The strong, corrupting sentiments of Satan are cherished, and they exert a masterly, compelling power. Under the influence of these sentiments, men bind up with one another in confederacies, in trades unions, and in secret societies. There are at work in the world agencies that God will not much longer tolerate. {4MR 85.2}


Yes, we see these forces reaching ever tighter control in our societies. Things are mounting up for the final great endeavor of Satan to get the whole world worshipping him.
Does he think this will stop Christ from coming?

Now we go to Revelation and find this is exactly as it has been predicted -- this is what satan is trying to set up. In Revelation 13 see that all the world (almost) will worship Satan before Christ comes.

BEWARE! The warnings of Revelation are for such a time as this. We do not want to be sucked into this false worship and be found paying homage to the dragon when Christ comes to claim His true worshippers.

Revelation 13:4
All the world marveled and followed after the beast which received the deadly wound but was healed. So they worshiped the DRAGON who gave authority to the beast.


Who is the dragon? Rev. 12:9 tells us it is Satan , the devil himself-- who is at war against Christ.

What is the devils fury aimed against at the end of time?
Rev. 12:17 tells us plain enough that he goes forth with great fury against those who KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD and have the testimony of Jesus.

We need to see the clues here. We need to be astute Bible students to recognize how the dragon will induce the world to worship Him. We see there will be a grand attack on the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus.

But wait --
There's a heligan principle in effect that will deceive many. For the very ones attacking God's commandments will SEEM to be defending them.
It works like this -- Create and greatly emphasize a problem.
And yes, we see the a huge disregard for God's commandments in the world. Abortion, licentiousness, violence, hatred, -- moral darkness is covering the world! People long for change! -- So then present the solution -- a whole new RESET! And right in the middle a Sunday law with lots of soft, smooth talk love, peace, rest, everyone equal, a spiritual fantasy land.
Wonderful, right -- NO WRONG!



What is Jesus testimony and warning concerning the commandments?
Matthew 15:3-10
"Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God replacing them with your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: (But you have made a law by which a person can avoid this responsibility) Thus have you made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. You are hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying, This people draws near to me with their mouth, and honour me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."


Note here, that these people think they are worshipping God, but their worship is in vain, useless because they have set aside God's commandments and replaced them with their own.


Also, there is an overlooked reality--
Government can not force righteousness and peace.
Their scheme will not, can not, bring peace, love, but only co-erosion, persecution and TROUBLE.
Force does NOT change hearts, it may change immediate actions, but it does not change hearts.
Force does not bring genuine repentance for sin, no contrition, no conversion of purpose, no abhorrence of evil. There is no deep, heartbreaking grief leading to godly repentance.
Force generates resentment, hate, despair, at best begrudged compliance at worst rebellion and war.

This is a key concept which negates the idea that Christ will set up a temporal kingdom over present day nations.

Christ does not use force or compulsion in drawing people to Him.

It is those who have sought the LORD for cleansing and a new heart and mind that will spend the millennium in heaven and inherit in the eternal kingdom with Christ. Those who have invited Christ to develop the principles of His kingdom in their hearts and minds that will spend eternity with Him.

Re: Jesus coming again -- which view is Biblical? [Re: dedication] #193904
03/17/21 11:03 PM
03/17/21 11:03 PM
dedication  Offline OP
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THE PLAN FOR THE COUNTERFEIT KINGDOM OUTLINED

So how will Satan get everyone worshipping him?
Through two apparently Christian systems, who do exactly what Jesus said was useless worship and then force everyone to join in this vain worship.

Don't for a minute think the counterfeit won't have appeal-- it will look very much like the real thing (at first) , but it will be the counterfeit, and the Bible has plainly revealed to us this fact so we need not be deceived!

BEWARE! Blessed is he who reads and understands and keeps the things written in the book of Revelation.

The first beast in Revelation 13, is identified as the same one that caused so much religious tyranny in the 1260 years --none other than the papacy.

The second beast is identified as one that begins lamb like -- Christ centered -- yet it too starts to speak like the dragon -- in religious tyranny which sets itself against the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus. This is none other but Protestantism who has lost her protest and rejoins with the papacy (in the grand ecumenical movement now sweeping America and the world)

Now see what happens:
"The dragon gives the beast his power and great authority. (Rev. 13:2) The second beast exercises all the authority of the first beast (13:12) and speaks like the dragon. He forces all to worship the first beast (13:12) They preform great signs to deceive those who dwell on the earth by these signs. (13:14)

For most of my life I've heard people say "That will never happen"! America would never follow the papacy, much less unite with the papacy. Americans would never stand for any of this. And as for the world -- most of it isn't even Christian so why would they comply.

Listen -- the movements in the last few MONTHS have defied all that reasoning. The whole world is being herded into compliance under the guise of fixing a pandemic and climate change!

It's coming in with themes of saving the earth, saving lives, abolishing racial discrimination, etc. etc. for the good of all, for the good of families, for the good of the poor, for the saving of the earth, for the common good!!!
And right in the middle -- is the Sunday laws! Give the earth a rest every Sunday, some countries are already implementing it. When the USA does, it's a sure sign we are VERY near the end.

IT'S HAPPENING, in whirl wind steps.
How much time do we have left -- we don't know, it could be months or God can tell the four angels holding the winds of strife to hold a little longer, we don't know.
BUT all doubt should be gone THESE PROPHIES are REAL!!!!



TRUE AND FALSE CHRIST

Into this realm a christ will appear --- to set up his kingdom. But this christ is the ultimate antichrist, Satan himself, getting the whole world to worship him.

Listen to this message straight from the world of spirits through the medium of "mary" who is really the devil masquerading as Mary.

"His Second Coming, beloved children, will be like the first. As was His birth on this night, so also will be the return of Jesus in glory, before His final coming for the last judgment, the hour of which, is hidden in the secrets of the Father. The world will be completely covered in the darkness of the denial of God, of its obstinate rejection of Him and of rebellion against His law of love..Almost no one will be ready to receive Him. He will come suddenly and the world will not be ready for His coming. He will come for a judgment for which man will find himself unprepared. He will come to establish His kingdom in the world, after defeating and annihilating His enemies...The new era, corresponds to a particular encounter of love, of light, and of life between paradise. ...The new era, .coincides with the defeat of Satan and his reign. All his power is destroyed, He is bound, with all the wicked spirits, and shut up in hell from which he will not be able to get out to do harm in the world. Herein, christ reigns..." (Thunder of Justice p. 360-361)

Sound familiar??? Is this not the message the churches are now adopting and promoting in their earthly millennium theories.

What warning to have about this?

Originally Posted by EGW
As the crowning act in the great drama of deception, Satan himself will personate Christ. The church has long professed to look to the Saviour's advent as the consummation of her hopes. Now the great deceiver will make it appear that Christ has come. In different parts of the earth, Satan will manifest himself among men as a majestic being of dazzling brightness, resembling the description of the Son of God given by John in the Revelation. . . . The shout of triumph rings out upon the air, "Christ has come! Christ has come!" The people prostrate themselves in adoration before him. . . . In gentle, compassionate tones he presents some of the same gracious, heavenly truths which the Saviour uttered; he heals the diseases of the people, and then, in his assumed character of Christ, he claims to have changed the Sabbath to Sunday, and commands all to hallow the day which he has blessed. . . . {FLB 346.2}
Only those who have been diligent students of the Scriptures, and who have received the love of the truth, will be shielded from the powerful delusion that takes the world captive. {FLB 346.3}
The Saviour has warned His people. . . , and has clearly foretold the manner of His second coming. "There shall arise false Christs. . . . Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Matthew 24:24-27. This coming, there is no possibility of counterfeiting. It will be universally known--witnessed by the whole world. . . . {FLB 346.4}
Are the people of God now so firmly established upon His Word that they would not yield to the evidence of their senses? Would they, in such a crisis, cling to the Bible, and the Bible only?




Re: Jesus coming again -- which view is Biblical? [Re: dedication] #193936
03/29/21 07:17 PM
03/29/21 07:17 PM
dedication  Offline OP
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?From now on I am telling you before it comes to pass, so that when it does occur, you may believe that I am He? (John 13:19, NAS).

When Jesus was on earth 2000 years ago He was preaching about His kingdom.

Matt. 4:17-18 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, .....19 And he said unto them, Follow me..

What kingdom was at hand 2000 years ago?

Matt. 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; which when a man found, he hides, and for joy thereof goes and sells all that he has, and buys that field.
13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
13:46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.
13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
22:3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding
13:31 The kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree,


The kingdom Jesus is speaking of here is NOT a political kingdom. It is something personal in the lives of people. The kingdom is something planted in the hearts of people that moves them to give up worldly things and seek with the whole heart after righteousness and salvation. It is answering to call to "come".

In Acts 1:6, some disciples wonder if Jesus was now going to restore the kingdom to Israel, they were thinking more in political lines still. Jesus, they thought, would now enter the Temple in the power and glory of his resurrection and begin to reform the religion of Israel and begin the process of evangelizing the nations. This is what they expected. BUT NO.

Jesus bids them to watch and pray for the Holy Spirit, Who would come upon them and then they were to go forth and plant the seeds of the kingdom in people's hearts!

Today much of the religious world is making the same mistake, thinking Jesus will soon enter a rebuilt Temple in the power and glory of his resurrection and begin to reform the religion of Israel and begin the process of evangelizing the nations.

But no, Jesus will never rule as a king that forces people to give Him their allegiance.
His kingdom is always for those who allowed the Holy Spirit to GROW the kingdom in their hearts and lives.

When Jesus comes in the clouds of glory, He sends His angels to gather all in whom the kingdom has taken root. Only they will be taken to the New Jerusalem. Only they have their "New Jerusalem" citizenship written upon their foreheads!

Matt. 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Rev. 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.


You see -- ISRAEL, includes all who are in Christ, born again!

John 3:3 Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Romans 9:6-8 For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: That is, they which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Galatians 3:29 And if you (no matter if you are Jew or Gentile) are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Only those "born again" in Christ will inherit the physical kingdom of God.


Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

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