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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #193962
04/06/21 08:32 AM
04/06/21 08:32 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
Luke 17:32 "Remember Lot's wife."

We see destruction all around us. The signs of the wrath of God's judgment are the reality of the impending doom.

Our merciful God sends clear warnings of the trumpets for the day of the Lord has indeed approached.

Jesus said, "For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled" (Luke 21:22). Keep in mind that "the days of vengeance" are in plural form. Do we want to be found "worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass"? (Luke 21:36). Then we must take heed of the seven trumpets warning in the prophecy.

The message of the seven trumpets of Revelation is impeccable warnings for the seven last plagues. Amos 3:7 "Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."

The kings of the earth are gathered in a place called Ar-ma-ged'-don to destroy people by "working miracles" for deception. The location is where destruction happens, and it is where we have already arrived. "Remember the Lot's wife"!

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #194001
04/23/21 12:00 PM
04/23/21 12:00 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
The cup of the wrath of God has been full and ready to pour out ever since Jesus has drunk the wrath of God on the cross. Notice, one of the seven angels already had the cup of the seven last plagues when apostle John was given the vision of Revelation.

Rev. 17:1 "One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, ?Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits by many waters." It would be meaningless if those angels was holding the empty seven bowls considering the context.

Rev. 16:1 "And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth."

God gave a time to repent although the cup of the seven last plagues were full from the beginning of Jesus' death.
Rev. 2:21 "And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not"

We are living in a borrowed time in God's mercy. Therefore, in Heb. 4:16 says, "Let us then approach God?s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace...."

2 Cor. 6:2 "....behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation."

Rev. ch. 17 unfolds the beast's nefarious activities that calls for God's execution judgment upon them.
17:5 "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH."

Rev. 18:3 "For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies."

Rev. 18:6 "Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double"

God has already prepared the cup of the wrath of God ever since the cross. However, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH continues to make all nations drink the wine of her fornication, which is through economic power of merchandising. She even makes merchandising souls of men (Rev. 18:13).

Notice, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with the harlot woman of religious power. Why would the kings of the earth associate with her though they may not have an interest in a religious thing. The only reason is to gain kingdom in economic interests "as kings one hour with the beast."

Rev. 17:12 "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast."

In Revelation, the seven heads and the ten horns always appear in the set. The seven heads of the sea beast and the kings of the earth have a close relationship. Nevertheless, they become enemies at the end, according to Revelation.

Rev. 17:16 "And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire."

The kings of the earth changed their minds about following the beast and hate her. They will expose her lies--make her desolate and naked--and burn her with fire.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #194017
04/29/21 10:40 AM
04/29/21 10:40 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
Rev. 19:2 "for true and just are his judgments.
He has condemned the great prostitute
who corrupted the earth by her adulteries.
He has avenged on her the blood of his servants.

The judgment of God on the great prostitute, namely Popery, is happening now in heaven.
The righteous will sing the triumphant song at the Second Coming, "for true and just are his judgments."

When did the judgment on the harlot begin since God granted her a time to repent (Rev. 2:21)?

The standard of God's judgment is the law of God--the Ten Commandments.
Pope has an agenda to enforce the spurious sabbath, the Sunday. So, God raised up SDA to preach the seventh-day Sabbath after the Great Disappointment of 1844. The focus is the harlot woman for the judgment hours: "the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water" (Rev. 14:7).

"Who corrupted the earth"? The Scripture says, "her adulteries" is the problem.
She has religious power, political power, and economic power that was given to her by the dragon (Rev. 13:2).
The harlot woman made all nations to brink her fornication, which is the economic fornication. There is no nation or individuals who are not involved in the oppression by the harlot.

Rev. 18:6 "Give back to her as she has given;
pay her back double for what she has done.
Pour her a double portion from her own cup."

In the past, Catholic burnt saints on the stakes, and the time is imminent for her to be burnt according to "give back to her as she has given."

Rev. 18:8 "She will be consumed by fire,
for mighty is the Lord God who judges her."

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #194025
05/03/21 03:46 PM
05/03/21 03:46 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
What is the wine of fornication that the harlot woman made the inhabitants fo the earth drink? It's the power of money!

Rev. 18:3 "For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication,
and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her,
and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies."

Those 29 items of merchandise are,
Rev. 18:12-13 "The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls,
and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet,
and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory,
and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil,
and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses,
and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men"

Even the souls of men are made merchandise through religious means: for example, the 49th day rite for deceased person in both same for Buddhism and Catholic. Family of the deceased has to offer tremendous money to the Buddhist temple or Catholic Church with the ceremony.

In short, the 49the rite practically suggests that the wealthy goes to heaven and the poor goes to hell. Buddhist and Catholic claim that if their priest offer up mass, the deceased will have a transition from hell to heaven on the 49th day. This undermines the efficacy of the Cross of Jesus. Priests and monks cannot even settle their own sin problems. But they teach others that they can intercede for sinners.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #194057
05/11/21 08:26 AM
05/11/21 08:26 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
There is no fundamental difference between the three angels message and the seven trumpets message.
Both have a familiar phrase; "angel flying in the midst of heaven" and "with a loud voice."

Rev. 14:6-7 "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters."

Rev. 8:13 "And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!"

The three angels message must be proclaimed by God's faithful people.
The seven trumpets message must be proclaimed by God's faithful people as well. Incidentally, the seven angels received the seven trumpets and did not sound until Jesus' intercession ceases. Then they think to blow the seven trumpets' message, but, instead, God commands them to pour out the seven last plagues.

Rev. 8:2 "And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets."
Rev. 8:6 "And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound."

Rev. 16:1 "And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth."

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #194094
05/27/21 09:43 AM
05/27/21 09:43 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
The weight of evidence shows that the message of the Seven Trumpets is not about past historical events; it is about the future occurrence of the imminent close of probation.

The introduction of the Seven Trumpets indicates the fact by the snapshot of Jesus who casts down the ashes of the golden censer upon the earth. The golden censer is where the prayers of saints are captured and presented before the throne through His intercession ministry. The prayers went up from the earth, and when Jesus finishes His ministry, He will throw down to the earth, indicating a cessation of it.

The main body of the Seven Trumpets supports the introduction. The clear ideal is seen in the sixth trumpet. A voice from the four horns commands the four angels to let go of their hold because the sealing has completed for the people of God. The voice is the voice of God who responds to the intercessory prayer of Jesus.

Rev. 9:13-14 "And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates."

We are reminded that the background of the above texts is a sanctuary because of the four horns.
The "four angels" are recalled from Rev. 7:1-3. We are told that they are commanded to hold winds of the four corners until the sealing work completes.

God's people must proclaim the Seven Trumpets message before the close of the probation while there is a short time left.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #194121
06/05/21 10:53 PM
06/05/21 10:53 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
Isa. 34:16 "Seek ye out of the book of the Lord, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them."

The text provides a principle that we must put other relevant texts together to see a whole thing of the message. I suggest that we put together the four pillars of Revelation, which are the seven churches, the seven seals, the seven trumpets and the seven plagues, in order to grasp a whole picture of the meaning.

We shall see that the linear arrangement of each elements of the four pillar, respectively, correlate to convey a clear message.

For example, the fourth element of the four pillars can be arranged as follow: (I would like to begin in the order of plague, seal, church and trumpet).

The fourth plague is sun became hot and God's name is blasphemed. We know that a climate change is the consequence of the sun scorching hot. please keep in mind that the God's name is in the seventh day Sabbath.

The fourth seal describes that a pale horse rider appeared, which represent the Papacy, having one fourth of the power on earth to kill with the beasts of the earth. Christians were killed during the Dark Ages with the Sunday Law.

The fourth church is Thyatira church, which described extensively among the other churches. The spirit of Jezebel was alive and Baal worship, or sun worship, was the core of the issue.

The fourth trumpet's sound is a clear warning message of the fourth plague. Why the sun, the moon and the stars are mentioned together instead just the sun getting hotter and hotter? It emphasizes an intensity of severity of warning, so that people may listen and come to a repentance.

The linear theme of the fourth ones of the each pillar is the Sabbath, which clearly connects to the fourth commandment: "remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy"

Why would I give an example from the fourth element? It is because that is easiest one to compare and draw a clear meaning out of them. Please give a thought and see if this method makes sense.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #194151
06/13/21 10:26 PM
06/13/21 10:26 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
The main body of the seven trumpets supports its introduction, which portrays the intercessory work of Jesus until he cast down ashes. Each element of the sevens symbolically signifies what will happen at the end of Jesus' cessation of His ministry in the heavenly sanctuary.

In other words, the seven trumpets speak about the seven last plagues. The weight of evidence is clear by the comparison of the both sets in juxtapose.

The first plague: the vial poured upon the earth The first trumpet: cast upon the earth
The 2nd plague: the vial poured upon the sea The 2nd trumpet: cast into the sea
The 3rd plague: upon the rivers and fountain of waters The 3rd trumpet: upon the rivers and fountain of waters
The 4th plague: upon the sun The 4th trumpet: catastrophe on the light source-sun, moon and stars
The 5th plague: upon the seat of the beast and his kingdom The 5th trumpet: the destroyer-fallen star from heaven
The 6th plague: the three unclean spirits-ecumenism The 6th trumpet: release of the four angels who were holding the four winds of the earth
The 7the plague: It is done The 7the trumpet: half an hour silence (a calm before a storm status)

I believe it is a serious mistake to link the seven trumpets with the seven churches and the seven seals period as traditionally known to most SDA.

Notice that the seven angels receive the seven trumpets, and they also have the seven vials of the wrath of God in their hand as well (Rev. 17:1; 16:1; 21:9).

The Seven Trumpets portray the things of event that will happen when Jesus leaves the heavenly sanctuary as a full measure of the seven last plagues. Therefore, please read the seven plagues and then read the seven trumpets. Then, you may see more clearly of the prophetic message of Revelation.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #194152
06/14/21 12:50 AM
06/14/21 12:50 AM
Matthew 10vs8  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2021

Regular Member
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 85
Ili Ili, AS
Originally Posted by Karen Y
...The Seven Trumpets portray the things of event that will happen when Jesus leaves the heavenly sanctuary as a full measure of the seven last plagues. ...
Incorrect. I will be demonstrating that here:

https://www.maritime-sda-online.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=194148#Post194148

or possibly in a new thread, specifically to the issue of the 7 trumpets. The 7 trumpets take place in history (basically paralleling the 7 churches, 7 seals, as the structure of Revelation demands - https://www.maritime-sda-online.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=194125#Post194125 ), beginning from circa 2K years ago, and we are near their ending. of which the 7 last plagues are in the 7th trumpet itself (Revelation 11:18). Joshua 5-6 is the type; Revelation the anti-type (more detail coming).

Last edited by Matthew 10vs8; 06/14/21 12:58 AM.
Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #194159
06/15/21 01:07 PM
06/15/21 01:07 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 486
Michigan, US
The Seven Angels of Revelation are those who have the vials of the seven last plagues (Rev. 16:1; 17:1; 21:9), and who have received the Seven Trumpets as well (Rev. 8:2, 6). The textual evidences are so clear that God's intention is for us to parallel the Seven Trumpets with the Seven Plagues.

God works with the usage of language and structure of Revelation. For example, The two cities of the great Babylon and the city of New Jerusalem.

Rev. 17:1 "And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitters upon many waters."
Rev. 17:7 "And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carriers her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns."

Rev. 9-10 "And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
"And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God."

The one of the seven angels deliberately invites John, "Come hither, I will shew thee" for the two cities in juxtapose: the city of the harlot and the new Jerusalem. In other words, its emphasis fell on the vision first of the great whore in all her horrible evil, and then on the vision of the beautiful bride in all her splendor and joy.

Notice that the Seven Angels of the plagues are the same Seven Angels who received the Seven Trumpets: Rev. 8:2, 6 "And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets."
"And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound."

In bird's eye-view, the seven angels have the vials of the wrath of God in one hand, and in the other, the Seven Trumpets, while awaiting for a bid of God's command.

God commands the seven angels; "And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth." Rev. 16:1

The seven angels were never told to blow the seven trumpets, for it is the duty of God's people in delivering the messages, and being watchmen for the Lord while Jesus is interceding before the throne of God behalf of His people. (See Rev. 8:3-5).

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