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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #194474
09/17/21 11:15 AM
09/17/21 11:15 AM
T
TheophilusOne  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 20
Fl
I just wanted to add what I found regarding who EGW thinks the Elders are:

"A study of Revelation 4 & 5 in context and evaluation of the various views suggests that the 24 Elders are the representatives of the unfallen worlds in heaven which is in congruence with Ellen G. White?s interpretation. Such a conclusion may not only contribute towards resolving a prophetical and exegetical difficulty but also towards reshaping perceptions among theologians notably Adventists about identifying the 24 Elders"

https://www.aiias.edu/ellen-g-white-and-the-identity-of-the-24-elders-in-revelation/

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #194475
09/17/21 04:13 PM
09/17/21 04:13 PM
Daryl  Offline

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I would like to see quotes where EGW writes about the 24 Elders.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #194477
09/18/21 04:58 PM
09/18/21 04:58 PM
T
TheophilusOne  Offline
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Posts: 20
Fl
the only thing I have found so far from her writings is: Lt65, 1898 where she calls one of the elders a strong angel

"We ask John what he saw and heard in the vision at Patmos, and he answers: ?And I saw in the right hand of him that sat upon the throne a book written, within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals. And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.? [Revelation 5:1-3.]"

https://m.egwwritings.org/en/book/6141.1#22

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #194483
09/27/21 09:42 AM
09/27/21 09:42 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 397
Michigan, US
Adam had enjoyed open communion with his Maker in the Garden of Eden before the fall, but when sin entered, a separation between God and man occurred.

Now man was cut off from direct approach to his Creator. However, in the plan of redemption of man, God made a communication possible through Christ and angels, but other beings of the un-fallen beings in the universe are never given a task to communicate with the humanity. The Old Testament has no hint about the unfallen beings were sent to talk with man as a messenger from heaven.

In other words, the communication of blessing and salvation brought only through the atonement of Christ and the ministry of angels.

The supposition of the 24 Elders are representatives from the unfallen world is unbiblical and unethical. We discover that one of the Elders talking with Apostle John in Rev. 5:5 and 7:13.

In Rev. 5:8-10, the 24 Elders sing a new song, saying, "we shall reign on the earth" "for ever and ever (v.14)" and v. 14 says that 24 Elders fell down to worship God.

The Earth is given to the humanity, not to the unfallen beings. Jesus who obtained the inheritance for the humanity shall reign for ever and ever and share His throne with the overcomers (Rev. 3:21 and 22:5).

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #194499
09/30/21 09:45 PM
09/30/21 09:45 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 397
Michigan, US
In both of the OT and the NT, angels have a significant role in communication of God's will to humanity.

Apostle John was not afraid to talk with one of 24 Elders because they are man to man. When John talked with an angel, his reaction was.... almost worshipped him for his excellency of strength and power.

One of 24 Elders talk with John:
Rev. 5:5 "And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof."

Rev. 7:13 "And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?"

Angel talk with John:
Rev. 19:9-10 "And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

Rev. 22:6,8,9,10 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done."

And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #194529
10/09/21 08:18 AM
10/09/21 08:18 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 397
Michigan, US
God's messenger is angels

Rev. 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John"

Scripture clearly have indicated from the very first verse of Revelation that His angel has sent "to shew unto his servants."

Jesus confirmed the fact at the end of the prophetic message that He sent his angel to communicate; never of any un-fallen beings.

Rev. 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

In the light of this 24 Elders are the humanity. Therefore, John had no fear to communicate with one of the elders as seen in Rev. 5:5 and 7:13-14.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #194530
10/09/21 04:10 PM
10/09/21 04:10 PM
T
TheophilusOne  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 20
Fl
Not according to what EGW said--she said strong angel.
And the fact that that 24 are unfallen beings is not unethical.

But keep on keeping on. whatever you think. not unto death, so it's okay.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #194532
10/10/21 01:22 PM
10/10/21 01:22 PM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2021

Full Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 397
Michigan, US

"To Adam in his innocence was granted communion, direct, free, and happy, with his Maker.
After his transgression, God would communicate to man only through Christ and angels."

The Signs of the Times, January 30, 1879.

It is truly unethical if any un-fallen being attempts to talk with humanity according to the above statement by E G White as well. It is only granted that "God would communicate to man only through Christ and angels." (See in the Daily Devotion from Conflict and Courage - Page 20)

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #194539
10/22/21 09:00 AM
10/22/21 09:00 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2021

Full Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 397
Michigan, US
24 Elders sing new songs in Rev. 5:9-10 "They sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

The new song is a redemption song that only the redeemed people can sing.

Rev. 14:3 "And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth."

Scripture says that "no man could learn that song," except who were "redeemed from the earth."

It is plainly clear when they sing a new song, "for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" and "hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth" that they are the representatives of humanity from the earth in the heavenly courts.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #194556
11/07/21 11:19 AM
11/07/21 11:19 AM
K
Karen Y  Online Content OP
SDA
Active Member 2021

Full Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 397
Michigan, US

Jesus declares "I am...the Almighty" (Rev. 1:8) because He was dead and, "behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death" (Rev. 1:18).

Jesus' name is "the Amen" (Rev. 3:14).

The 24 Elders are one of the first-fruits that Jesus harvested and presented them unto God the Father. They respond in worship to the Lord God Almighty and say "Amen; Alleluia" when the saints are gathered at the second coming of Jesus.

Rev. 19:4 "And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia."

Page 78 of 79 1 2 76 77 78 79

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