HOME CHAT ROOM #1 CHAT ROOM #2 Forum Topics Within The Last 7 Days REGISTER ENTER FORUMS BIBLE SCHOOL CONTACT US

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine Christian Family Fellowship Forums
(formerly Maritime SDA OnLine)
Consisting mainly of both members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
Welcomes and invites other members and friends of the Seventh-day Adventist Church to join us!

Click Here To Read Legal Notice & Disclaimer
Suggested a One Time Yearly $20 or Higher Donation Accepted Here to Help Cover the Yearly Expenses of Operating & Upgrading. We need at least $20 X 10 yearly donations.
Donations accepted: Here
ShoutChat Box
Newest Members
ekoorb1030, jibb555, MBloomfield, Dina, Nelson
1323 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums118
Topics9,189
Posts195,525
Members1,323
Most Online5,850
Feb 29th, 2020
Seventh-day Adventist Church In Canada Links
Seventh-day Adventist Church in Canada

Newfoundland & Labrador Mission

Maritime Conference

Quebec Conference

Ontario Conference

Manitoba-Saskatchewan Conference

Alberta Conference

British Columbia Conference

7 Top Posters(30 Days)
kland 15
Rick H 15
Daryl 4
March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Member Spotlight
dedication
dedication
Canada
Posts: 6,411
Joined: April 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Live Space Station Tracking
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
Last 7 Pictures From Photo Gallery Forums
He hath set an harvest for thee
Rivers Of Living Water
He Leads Us To Green Pastures
Remember What God Has Done
Remember The Sabbath
"...whiter than snow..."
A Beautiful Spring Day
Who's Online
3 registered members (Karen Y, 2 invisible), 2,847 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Does a 'Thought for Thought' translation or 'Dynamic Equivalence' make a difference? #194659
02/19/22 09:29 AM
02/19/22 09:29 AM
Rick H  Offline
OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,100
Florida, USA
In todays world, the average person will say that in reading different versions of the Bible it really seems no different, and it appears that they say the same thing in their eyes. The thing is, that the NIV claims it is a 'Thought for Thought' translation or 'Dynamic Equivalence', but you have to ask, whose thoughts. That is why they may seem to say much the same thing and yet, just a few changes or even words can make a big difference.

Here is one that definitely makes a difference and its done in Gods Ten Commandments:

But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.

Do you see what they did. Its very subtle, but if you look "the Sabbath" is changed to "a Sabbath". This would broaden the scope of the command to cover ALL sabbaths including 'ceremonial' ones and not just the one made for man on the seventh day, and effectively create confusion within the Bible itself, for God did not create the world in seven days prior to each of the ceremonial sabbaths.

The "ceremonial law" was dealing with forms of worshipping God and with ritual cleanness and judicial precepts came into existence only with the Law of Moses and were only temporary. So the "ceremonial sabbaths" or high sabbaths", were seven annual biblical festivals or feast days, such as Passover which reminded the people of how God took care of them or His blessing to them.

So its a big difference from "the Sabbath" to "a Sabbath". but it would escape most readers, and the subterfuge remain hidden..

Last edited by Rick H; 02/19/22 09:30 AM.
Re: Does a 'Thought for Thought' translation or 'Dynamic Equivalence' make a difference? [Re: Rick H] #194660
02/19/22 09:32 AM
02/19/22 09:32 AM
Rick H  Offline
OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,100
Florida, USA
Here is a great explanation of the ceremonial sabbaths in the SOP...

"Ceremonial Sabbaths
Leviticus 23:7, 8, 21, 24, 25, 27, 32, 39. There are seven ceremonial Sabbaths as follows:- 1. 16th of Abib; 2. 23rd of Abib; 3. Pentecost; 4. 1st of the 7th month; 5. 10th of the 7th month; 6. 15th of the 7th month; 7. 22nd of the 7th month. These were annual Sabbaths, coming only once a year. As they always came on the same day of the month, they would come only occasionally on the 7th day of the week.

? Colossians 2:16, 17. These Sabbaths were all shadows of things to come.

? Hebrews 9:8-11. The types, or shadowy service, ceased at the cross. The Desire of Ages, 774.

? Matthew 27:50-51. At the death of Christ God rent the vail of the temple, thus showing that the shadowy service had ended.

? Hebrews 9:10; Romans 14:1-6; Colossians 2:16. All of these ceremonial Sabbaths were connected with the annual feast days. On the Passover Sabbath bitter herbs were mingled with the feast. The day of atonement was a fast day; the others were feast days.

? Leviticus 23:38. These annual Sabbaths were separate and distinct from the Sabbath of the Lord.

? Exodus 20:10. The seventh day of the week is the Sabbath of the Lord.

? Exodus 20:8-11. ?Meats and drinks? not connected with the weekly Sabbath.

? Exodus 20:11. Seventh-day Sabbath a memorial of creation. The Desire of Ages, 289.

? Isaiah 66:22, 23. As long as the world stands the memorial of creation will be celebrated. "

https://m.egwwritings.org/en/book/978.1187

Re: Does a 'Thought for Thought' translation or 'Dynamic Equivalence' make a difference? [Re: Rick H] #194663
02/24/22 11:57 AM
02/24/22 11:57 AM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
Midland
Originally Posted by Rick H
Here is one that definitely makes a difference and its done in Gods Ten Commandments:

But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.

Do you see what they did. Its very subtle, but if you look "the Sabbath" is changed to "a Sabbath". This would broaden the scope of the command to cover ALL sabbaths including 'ceremonial' ones and not just the one made for man on the seventh day, and effectively create confusion within the Bible itself, for God did not create the world in seven days prior to each of the ceremonial sabbaths.

I understand what you are saying is a difference between "a Sabbath" and "the sabbath". One is capitalized, one is not, one refers to "a", the other refers to "the". "A" seventh day Sabbath vs. "the" ceremonial sabbath. Seems a little contradictory opposed and conflicting opposites. But what is the correct rendering? Other than an opinion of what it should be, can you show which is the correct English article to be used?

I believe accurate translation is more important than one supporting an opinion of what is proper. Can you show what is accurate?

Re: Does a 'Thought for Thought' translation or 'Dynamic Equivalence' make a difference? [Re: Rick H] #194677
03/10/22 08:14 PM
03/10/22 08:14 PM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,118
Nova Scotia, Canada
bump


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Does a 'Thought for Thought' translation or 'Dynamic Equivalence' make a difference? [Re: Rick H] #194681
03/11/22 03:04 PM
03/11/22 03:04 PM
dedication  Offline
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
An even bigger difference is in the phrase:
Sabbath OF the Lord
Sabbath TO the Lord
The first tells us the Sabbath is the Lord's -- it's something he has given to us in which we are to enter into HIS Sabbath rest and find rest in Him
The second suggests the sabbath is something we do to or for the Lord. It's our works which we must render

As we have just studied Hebrews 3 and 4 in our Sabbath School lessons, our weekly Sabbath rest from the works of life, is to renew our understanding of the spiritual rest which we can find only in our Savior, Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath day!

Re: Does a 'Thought for Thought' translation or 'Dynamic Equivalence' make a difference? [Re: kland] #194682
03/11/22 04:10 PM
03/11/22 04:10 PM
dedication  Offline
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,411
Canada
Originally Posted by kland
..., if you look "the Sabbath" is changed to "a Sabbath". This
I understand what you are saying is a difference between "a Sabbath" and "the sabbath". One is capitalized, one is not, one refers to "a", the other refers to "the". "A" seventh day Sabbath vs. "the" ceremonial sabbath. Seems a little contradictory opposed and conflicting opposites. But what is the correct rendering? Other than an opinion of what it should be, can you show which is the correct English article to be used?

I believe accurate translation is more important than one supporting an opinion of what is proper. Can you show what is accurate?


The article "the" is a definite article. In Hebrew they add a "hey" to the noun if it needs a definite article. From my very limited ability to read Hebrew it appears to have the "hey"
Thus "THE Sabbath" would be correct.

We can also look at the Bible's treatment of the seventh day Sabbath -- is the Seventh day Sabbath a definite Day or is it just one honored day among many?
If it is a specific day -- "THE Sabbath" is correct, if it just merges into a lot of roving honored days, then "A sabbath" would be acceptable.

I fully see scripture saying it is a specific, definite day not just "a day". It is THE Sabbath!
The fourth commandment ties it with creation, and at creation God sanctified one specific day out of the weekly cycle, the seventh, as a day of rest. This seventh day followed six evening and morning days. At Sinai, He again sanctified this same seventh day as His holy day, tying it to creation.

Re: Does a 'Thought for Thought' translation or 'Dynamic Equivalence' make a difference? [Re: dedication] #194684
03/12/22 09:38 AM
03/12/22 09:38 AM
Rick H  Offline
OP
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,100
Florida, USA
Originally Posted by dedication
Originally Posted by kland
..., if you look "the Sabbath" is changed to "a Sabbath". This
I understand what you are saying is a difference between "a Sabbath" and "the sabbath". One is capitalized, one is not, one refers to "a", the other refers to "the". "A" seventh day Sabbath vs. "the" ceremonial sabbath. Seems a little contradictory opposed and conflicting opposites. But what is the correct rendering? Other than an opinion of what it should be, can you show which is the correct English article to be used?

I believe accurate translation is more important than one supporting an opinion of what is proper. Can you show what is accurate?


The article "the" is a definite article. In Hebrew they add a "hey" to the noun if it needs a definite article. From my very limited ability to read Hebrew it appears to have the "hey"
Thus "THE Sabbath" would be correct.

We can also look at the Bible's treatment of the seventh day Sabbath -- is the Seventh day Sabbath a definite Day or is it just one honored day among many?
If it is a specific day -- "THE Sabbath" is correct, if it just merges into a lot of roving honored days, then "A sabbath" would be acceptable.

I fully see scripture saying it is a specific, definite day not just "a day". It is THE Sabbath!
The fourth commandment ties it with creation, and at creation God sanctified one specific day out of the weekly cycle, the seventh, as a day of rest. This seventh day followed six evening and morning days. At Sinai, He again sanctified this same seventh day as His holy day, tying it to creation.



And yet many Adventist see no issue when they read these new versions with " dynamic equivalence" or worse it is used in the Sabbath School lesson...

Re: Does a 'Thought for Thought' translation or 'Dynamic Equivalence' make a difference? [Re: Rick H] #194692
03/15/22 01:22 PM
03/15/22 01:22 PM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
Midland
Why did the translators put lower case on "sabbath"?

Re: Does a 'Thought for Thought' translation or 'Dynamic Equivalence' make a difference? [Re: kland] #194698
03/19/22 07:26 AM
03/19/22 07:26 AM
Daryl  Offline

Site Administrator
23000+ Member
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 25,118
Nova Scotia, Canada
Originally Posted by kland
Why did the translators put lower case on "sabbath"?

Can you give us a few examples?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Does a 'Thought for Thought' translation or 'Dynamic Equivalence' make a difference? [Re: kland] #194701
03/23/22 10:56 AM
03/23/22 10:56 AM
K
kland  Offline
SDA
Active Member 2024

5500+ Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 6,416
Midland
yep. Post #194663

Originally Posted by kland
Originally Posted by Rick H
Here is one that definitely makes a difference and its done in Gods Ten Commandments:

But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates.

Do you see what they did. Its very subtle, but if you look "the Sabbath" is changed to "a Sabbath". This would broaden the scope of the command to cover ALL sabbaths including 'ceremonial' ones and not just the one made for man on the seventh day, and effectively create confusion within the Bible itself, for God did not create the world in seven days prior to each of the ceremonial sabbaths.

I understand what you are saying is a difference between "a Sabbath" and "the sabbath". One is capitalized, one is not, one refers to "a", the other refers to "the". "A" seventh day Sabbath vs. "the" ceremonial sabbath. Seems a little contradictory opposed and conflicting opposites. But what is the correct rendering? Other than an opinion of what it should be, can you show which is the correct English article to be used?

I believe accurate translation is more important than one supporting an opinion of what is proper. Can you show what is accurate?

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderator  dedication, Rick H 

Sabbath School Lesson Study Material Link
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
Most Recent Posts From Selected Public Forums
Seven Trumpets reconsidered
by Karen Y. 03/27/24 09:35 AM
Are the words in the Bible "imperfect"?
by Kevin H. 03/24/24 09:02 PM
The Story of David and Goliath
by ProdigalOne. 03/23/24 08:06 PM
Global Warming Farce
by kland. 03/22/24 10:17 AM
Carbon Dioxide What's so Bad about It?
by kland. 03/21/24 12:34 PM
The Value of Bible Types
by TruthinTypes. 03/17/24 06:22 PM
Orion Which Every One on the Globe Can See
by Rick H. 03/16/24 06:26 PM
'Prophet' Summons UFOs
by ProdigalOne. 03/16/24 02:19 AM
Will You Take The Wuhan Virus Vaccine?
by dedication. 03/11/24 06:31 PM
Get That Razor Wire Up!
by kland. 03/05/24 12:49 PM
Messages for This Time
by ProdigalOne. 03/04/24 05:54 AM
The Lake of Fire is Hell
by Rick H. 03/02/24 05:01 PM
Adventist Agriculture
by kland. 02/29/24 12:33 PM
Most Recent Posts From Selected Private Forums of MSDAOL
The Wound Is Healed! The Mark Is Forming!
by Rick H. 03/27/24 10:36 PM
Are we seeing a outpouring of the Holy Spirit?
by Rick H. 03/24/24 06:50 PM
Time Is Short!
by Rick H. 03/24/24 06:45 PM
Climate Change and the Sunday Law
by Rick H. 03/24/24 06:42 PM
WHAT IS THE VERY END-TIME PROPHECY?
by Rick H. 03/23/24 06:03 PM
Digital Identity Control
by Rick H. 03/23/24 02:08 PM
A.I. - The New God?
by Rick H. 03/23/24 01:59 PM
Christian Nationalism/Sunday/C
limate Change

by ProdigalOne. 03/16/24 08:38 PM
Perils of the Emerging Church Movement
by Rick H. 03/16/24 06:30 PM
Is There A Connection Between WO & LGBTQ?
by Kevin H. 03/12/24 09:20 PM
A Second American Civil War?
by Daryl. 03/04/24 06:14 PM
Forum Announcements
Visitors by Country Since February 11, 2013
Flag Counter
Google Maritime SDA OnLine Public Forums Site Search & Google Translation Service
Google
 
Web www.maritime-sda-online.com

Copyright 2000-Present
Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine).

LEGAL NOTICE:
The views expressed in this forum are those of individuals
and do not necessarily represent those of Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine,
as well as the Seventh-day Adventist Church
from the local church level to the General Conference level.

Maritime 2nd Advent Believers OnLine (formerly Maritime SDA OnLine) is also a self-supporting ministry
and is not part of, or affiliated with, or endorsed by
The General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists headquartered in Silver Spring, Maryland
or any of its subsidiaries.

"And He saith unto them, follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt. 4:19
MARITIME 2ND ADVENT BELIEVERS ONLINE (FORMERLY MARITIME SDA ONLINE) CONSISTING MAINLY OF BOTH MEMBERS & FRIENDS
OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH,
INVITES OTHER MEMBERS & FRIENDS OF THE SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD WHO WISHES TO JOIN US!
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1