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Re: 2nd Quarter 2022 Lessons on Genesis [Re: Daryl] #194769
05/02/22 12:09 PM
05/02/22 12:09 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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Posts: 24,942
Nova Scotia, Canada
In answer to your question from the writings of EGW:

Before God can use him, Abraham must be separated from his former associations, that he may not be controlled by human influence or rely upon human aid. Now that he has become connected with God, this man must henceforth dwell among strangers. His character must be peculiar, differing from all the world. He could not even explain his course of action so as to be understood by his friends, for they were idolaters. Spiritual things must be spiritually discerned; therefore his motives and his actions were beyond the comprehension of his kindred and friends. {RC 324.2}


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: 2nd Quarter 2022 Lessons on Genesis [Re: dedication] #194794
05/19/22 01:39 AM
05/19/22 01:39 AM
Kevin H  Online Content
SDA
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 507
New York
Originally Posted by dedication
Originally Posted by Kevin
This is why we don't see attacks of the apostles until nearly 44 AD). The Hellenistic Jews...

Weren't the apostles attacked much earlier?
James the brother of John was beheaded during Herod's reign.
Peter was put in prison to suffer the same fate the next day, but was delivered by an angel. (Acts 12)

Hellenism, as I understand it, was basically accepting Greek culture and language. True the Jews living outside of Jerusalem were generally Greek speaking, but Hellenism was NOT Christian, the term carries heavy connotations of paganism, eroding far more than the legalistic attitude of Pharisees. The Jewish Sadducees were largely Hellenistic while the Pharisees were seen as the law upholding ones before there were any Christians. This was a major issue of contention amongst the Jews.

While there was definitely a conflict between legalism vs righteousness and justification by faith in Jesus, in the early church, I do have a problem with linking those preaching righteousness by faith with Hellenism. Though quite possibly many Pharisees may have viewed it as such. But the Sanhedrin was run by chiefly Sadducees who were also considered Hellenistic?

Stephen was stoned, not because of Hellenism, but because he plainly told the Jews they had rejected Christ their Savior from sin.
Hellenism, or Greek culture and philosophy is what polluted the Christian church and gave rise to papal doctrines.
I guess I'm a little troubled by calling the Christian Jews who believed in righteousness by faith (Hellenistic).


Yes, James was beheaded by Herod, the Bible seems to place it towards the end of Herod's life, which was in 44 AD. This also places the visit by Peter to Cornelius, and that those who fled from Saul's persecution, going places were they were sharing the gospel with the gentiles, and the shock for church leadership at this action.

The Sanhedrin consisted of 70 elders, both Pharisees and Sadducees. Now the Sadducees were in a lot of ways Hellenistic, and they were corrupt puppets of Rome. They were not very religious and the typical Jew were very critical of them. The Pharisees were seen as the religious leaders (although there was a range of responses to them; as they themselves covered the whole range of experiences from living up to what they understood about God, to those who wanted that type of relationship with God but tried to get it by actions, and those who were just hypocrites who just wanted the respect for being so good, and others could see through this.)

What we find in Acts is that Rabbi Gamliel gave a wise "wait and see" response which placed the followers of Jesus under his protection. Yes, Stephen was stoned because he plainly told the Jews that they had rejected Christ their Savior from sin. But he was very involved with the bilingual/bicultural ministry of the early church. Saul was a member of the synagogue of the freedmen.

Archaeology had added to what we know about the synagogue of the freedmen. They were NOT your typical Jewish synagogue. The members tended to be or the children of those who had been made slaves of Rome, usually for some rebellion. They needed to work for, if I recall correctly, approximately 20 years, working 7 days a week and eating only what they were fed. At the end of the time they were given their freedom, with full Roman citizenship and full Roman citizenship to their decedents.

Many of these returned to Jerusalem where they formed their own synagogue where they wanted to prove that despite their years of working on the Sabbath and eating whatever they were fed, that they were still better Jews than their privileged others who kept each and every Sabbath and ate only kosher. They wanted to prove that they were better Jews than the Pharisees. They called all their extra Jewishness "the works of the law". They became ultra right wing; far beyond the typical Jew. If you came to visit the parking lot would be full of donkeys wearing the bumper sticker "Welcome to Jerusalem, now learn Hebrew (or at least Aramaic)" They wanted to give up any non-Jewish thing that they could give up. They were not a group that would have been tolerant of bilingual/bicultural anything.

As they heard the sharp message from someone with an open attitude towards bilingual/bicultural ministry that just added to their anger. And again, the followers of Jesus were under Rabbi Gamliel's protection. Being Gamliel's student, Saul was able to make an exception of Gamliel's protection, and if Gamliel did not like it he would punish his student. (How much of Saul's conversion was related to the prayers of his teacher for this prejudiced, closed minded, but brilliant student?). We find the apostles living and practicing their faith freely during this time. In Acts 10 we find that it was the Hellenistic Jews who had to flee Saul's persecution. Then when we get to around 44 AD Herod beheaded James (indicating that Rabbi Gamliel had either died, or was too old to be effective, so he could no longer protect them). Peter visited Cornelius, the church looked with caution into reaching out to gentiles, was shocked to find that among the Hellenistic Jews who fled from Saul's persecution had been sharing the gospel with gentiles for 10 years. And Peter placed in prison to face the same as James but was delivered by an angel. (Now, while most likely a being from heaven, the word means "messenger' and while not likely, is possible for it to have been someone who believed that Gamliel's protection should continue and helped to carry it out.) And at this rise of Herod's persecution to all the Christians, no longer limited to the Hellenistic, had God's intervention with his death.

Last edited by Kevin H; 05/19/22 02:00 AM.
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Re: 2nd Quarter 2022 Lessons on Genesis [Re: Daryl] #194796
05/19/22 03:31 PM
05/19/22 03:31 PM
dedication  Online Content

Global Moderator
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,552
Canada
When studying this weeks lesson -- Abraham's testing --
How many types do you see with Christ's sacrifice?

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Re: 2nd Quarter 2022 Lessons on Genesis [Re: Daryl] #194801
05/20/22 06:36 PM
05/20/22 06:36 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian
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Posts: 24,942
Nova Scotia, Canada
What do you think of the idea of God testing people?

Does God test all His people, or some of His people?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
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Re: 2nd Quarter 2022 Lessons on Genesis [Re: Daryl] #194804
05/20/22 07:07 PM
05/20/22 07:07 PM
dedication  Online Content

Global Moderator
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,552
Canada
Abraham's "test" was somewhat unique, but God does allow circumstances in our lives so we can see if we really have faith or if we are just living on a "silver slippers" type of faith.
It's easy to trust in God when we are blessed, but how do we react when things we can't understand and which hurt, come upon us? Do we still trust?

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Re: 2nd Quarter 2022 Lessons on Genesis [Re: Daryl] #194811
05/22/22 01:54 AM
05/22/22 01:54 AM
Kevin H  Online Content
SDA
Active Member 2022

Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 507
New York
I don't have time to cover much here, but both Dr. Doukhan's commentary on Genesis and Dr. Tonstad's book "The God of Sense and the Traditions of Non-sense" has tremendous insights into this passage that we often miss.

A couple of ideas I found particularly fascinating are how the translation "will provide" is actually a minor possibility, and that a better translation is that God would "see himself the offering" and both books focus on the theology around the idea of the word see instead of provide. And they also point out that while church history has focused on the translation "provide" that when ever the text is discussed within the Bible itself, the focus is on the "see" and the theological implications of "see".

Another part that they pointed out was how the chapter in Hebrew has a few words, much silence, but the powerful impact of the few words and the silence, Doukhan going into more detail. While translations go more wordy, there is a Hebrew rhythm and rhyme in just 3 words, Isaac calling out to his dad, and the two Hebrew word reply translated "yes, my son" Isaac was starting to put two and two together and wondered if he did something wrong that changed his relationship with his father. Abraham's reply indicated that no matter how difficult the situation appeared, that his love has not changed.

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Re: 2nd Quarter 2022 Lessons on Genesis [Re: Daryl] #194835
06/02/22 01:11 PM
06/02/22 01:11 PM
dedication  Online Content

Global Moderator
5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,552
Canada
This week's lesson on Jacob becomes Israel has a very important message for us living in the last days.
The time of Jacob's trouble.
What is it?
What must we do to be prepared for it?

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Re: 2nd Quarter 2022 Lessons on Genesis [Re: Daryl] #194836
06/02/22 02:29 PM
06/02/22 02:29 PM
dedication  Online Content

Global Moderator
5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,552
Canada
The people of God will then (at the time when the death decree is issued) be plunged into those scenes of affliction and distress described by the prophet as the time of Jacob's trouble. ?Thus saith the Lord: We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.? ?All faces are turned into paleness. Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it; it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.? [Jeremiah 30:5-7.] {GC88 616.1}

What causes their extreme distress?
Is it fear of a violent death?
Have they lost their faith in God's promises?
Or is it something else that is greater than even the threat of physical death?

"Bitterest of all was the thought that it was his own sin which had brought this peril upon the innocent. . . the sense of his guilt pressed upon his soul; his sins rose up before him, to shut him out from God."
He knew he had many sins against him, he was not worthy to be delivered by Divine power.

"Had not Jacob previously repented of his sin in obtaining the birthright by fraud, God could not have heard his prayer and mercifully preserved his life. So in the time of trouble, if the people of God had unconfessed sins to appear before them while tortured with fear and anguish, they would be overwhelmed; despair would cut off their faith, and they could not have confidence to plead with God for deliverance. But while they have a deep sense of their unworthiness, they will have no concealed wrongs to reveal. Their sins will have been blotted out by the atoning blood of Christ." PP 202

Repentance of sin
and earnestly, desperately, clinging to Christ, seeking His blessings and forgiveness.
Casting ourselves fully upon Him despite all pain and inconvenience.
"I will not let Thee go!"

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