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Why Creation cannot be mixed with Theistic Evolution. #194961
09/01/22 09:49 AM
09/01/22 09:49 AM
Rick H  Offline OP
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"By the word of the LORD were the heavens made, their starry host by the breath of his mouth", Psalms 33:6.

Creation is very clearly laid out especially in Genesis and we see it throuout the Bible. But man has come up with other ideas such as evolution rather than believe that God made things with just a word. Most every time you visit a state park, museum, or display of archeological evidence you are confronted with the question as you read, "Five hundred thousand years ago." or "one million years ago" or "Ten Million Years ago".

There are those who question whether understanding the Creation account as literal or non-literal, affects our understanding of Gods truth. And some Christians have taken a the middle of the fence view when it comes to Creation, and it can have grave consequences. Its Theistic evolution, the belief that God used processes of evolution to create, and it implies that God is bound to the laws of nature, and worse, at least believing ?an account of origins at odds with the biblical record of history,? The exact definition is ?Theistic evolution (also known as theistic evolutionism or God-guided evolution) is a theological view that God creates through laws of nature?.

The issue at heart is that theistic evolution would alter or modify key doctrines of the Bible. So are the words by writers intended as a literal historical account, as a non-literal reading must provide evidence of specific figurative indicators in the text. So lets look at Genesis 1 on Creation..

?1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.?


God gave names to the dark and light portions of time, calling them ?day? and ?night.? And after the first day, God then went through six days of Creation as we see..

"6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day."

"9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.13 And the evening and the morning were the third day."

"14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day."

"20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day."

"24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

"29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

Well it is very clear that it was days and the weekly cycle was set up and Sabbath was given to us at creation as the seventh day of the week as we read in the Bible in Genesis.

Genesis 2

"1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. 4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,"

God created our world in six literal 24-hour days, and rested on the seventh day and "blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it".

We find a second issue and that is Marriage, as if we evolved, there really is no marriage between man and woman under God. Its just kind of a get together between whatever they have evolved into thus it can be same sex or transferring in between sexes or utter confusion as we see happening.

I plan to do a sermon on Creation and so any input is welcome and appreciated..

Re: Why Creation cannot be mixed with Theistic Evolution. [Re: Rick H] #194968
09/04/22 12:40 AM
09/04/22 12:40 AM
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Thanks for starting this thread with this timely subject.

Follow the science is the mantra of our time. And evolution is considered based on science, while creationism is classified as unscientific. Yes, sadly the hybrid compromise called theistic evolution has been creeping into our Adventist educational colleges and universities. Some young people I personally know were quite shook up to find so called Adventist professors challenging their belief in creationism as being out of touch with reality.

Why is theistic evolution even more destructive to biblical faith than out right evolution?
With out right evolution we know it rejects God, rejects the obvious evidence that there was a master designer (something that more and more scientists are now admitting). This it is more obvious it is in opposition to God?s Word.

But theistic evolution comes with religious approval. They believe God created the materials and had a plan or design and thus guided and superintended the process through evolution into its present state. They believe evolution was Gods method of creating the various life forms from simple matter to complex life forms.

So what?s wrong with that teaching? What does it matter?

1. Sin is no longer sinful if God used the very principles of sin (fight for survival at the expense of the weak) which is the strategy of evolution. Selfishness means survival.
2. Death is natural and the means to advance. Whereas the creationist believes death is the result of sin
3. Mankind does not need a Savior from sin, forgiveness, cleansing etc. he only has to evolve further from his primitive beginnings into a more advanced humanity. Thus Christ is seen more as a catalyst to advance the evolution process not as a Savior Who seeks to save sinners and restore them back into the image of God in which they were created.
4. Eugenics and the war against the weak becomes desirable in order to improve the human evolution into superior race
5. And yes marriage and the fact God created humans male and female all gets attacked
6. And what about the earth being made new. Must that come through the gruesome means of evolution as well or does evolution get rid of the second coming and the recreation of a new heaven and earth of scripture

thus all Christian principles are utterly turned upside down. Evil becomes good. Salvation is twisted upside down. Mankind is on His way to greater humanity through evolution. It turns everything upside down while still claiming to believe in God

We see all this confusion around us exploding in the world today.

But remember creation of a perfect world in six days, ruined by sin in desperate need of a divine Savior is the theme of Scripture

1. Scripture is consistent in its position. Morning and evening is repeated over and over as the measure of each day in Genises 1 a day is defined as dark and light. All the way through scripture the genesis account is verified psalms 33:6 Exodus 20:11hebrews 4:4 as examples.
2. Jesus spoke of the Genesis account as factual Matt 19:4,5,8. Mark 2:27 ,
3. We worship God because He created us. He created us for fellowship with Him. Not as a scientific experiment to see what would develop. See rev 14:7,
4. We are children of the heavenly king. What a glorious identity!! Created for fellowship with God. saved by Christ?s grace and restored into .fellowship with Him by the Holy Spirit.
5. Our character restoration is built on Gods true principles of love unselfishness tender regard for others and harmony that only Gods ways can bring. Never on war against the weak and survival of the strongest.

The six day creation followed by the sanctification of the seventh day is foundational as the beginning upon which the whole story of salvation follows. Substitute that with evolution and everything is destroyed.

Last edited by dedication; 09/14/22 07:54 PM. Reason: Hokt changed to holy spelling correction
Re: Why Creation cannot be mixed with Theistic Evolution. [Re: Rick H] #194969
09/04/22 10:21 AM
09/04/22 10:21 AM
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For many years Protestantism in America has largely clung to the biblical young earth creation revelation. Great efforts were made to give creation credibility both scientifically and logically. Even though evolution was taught in all public schools still surveys showed nearly half of all Americans believed God created mankind in his present form. Mankind did not evolve. Surveys lamented the fact that the USA lagged behind European countries and other parts of the world in accepting evolution. But with the emergence of theistic evolution ideas that is rapidly changing Creationism is faltering. Now, according to US National Center for Science Education theistic evolution is the view of creation taught at the major Protestant seminaries. Theistic evolution is the official position of the Catholic Church.

Theistic evolution has to a very large degree broken down resistance against evolution. And with that victory we also see a huge change in society and religious thought. Our world is rapidly changing as it has lost its most important anchor point defining who we are, why we are here, what the future holds and especially Who God is, and His works and character . The whole great controversy and salvation story is uprooted

Re: Why Creation cannot be mixed with Theistic Evolution. [Re: dedication] #195020
09/24/22 07:08 PM
09/24/22 07:08 PM
Rick H  Offline OP
Group: Admin Team
2500+ Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,810
Florida, USA
Originally Posted by dedication
For many years Protestantism in America has largely clung to the biblical young earth creation revelation. Great efforts were made to give creation credibility both scientifically and logically. Even though evolution was taught in all public schools still surveys showed nearly half of all Americans believed God created mankind in his present form. Mankind did not evolve. Surveys lamented the fact that the USA lagged behind European countries and other parts of the world in accepting evolution. But with the emergence of theistic evolution ideas that is rapidly changing Creationism is faltering. Now, according to US National Center for Science Education theistic evolution is the view of creation taught at the major Protestant seminaries. Theistic evolution is the official position of the Catholic Church.

Theistic evolution has to a very large degree broken down resistance against evolution. And with that victory we also see a huge change in society and religious thought. Our world is rapidly changing as it has lost its most important anchor point defining who we are, why we are here, what the future holds and especially Who God is, and His works and character . The whole great controversy and salvation story is uprooted


The tech movement and resulting change in society has also had a tremendous impact on the young people, and they are turning away from God and Creation as a group...

Re: Why Creation cannot be mixed with Theistic Evolution. [Re: Rick H] #195046
10/04/22 11:10 PM
10/04/22 11:10 PM
dedication  Online Content

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Do you mean the biotech movement?
That is a movement that seeks to encourage the evolution of the human race to be more than human through technological means.
Quote
Transhumanism is both a scientific movement and a philosophical system whose adherents attempt to use technology to accomplish one primary task ? to eliminate weakness in the modern human being. They are not only trying to eliminate physical weaknesses, such as disease and sickness, but they are also attempting to eliminate emotional weaknesses, such as sadness and anger. However, the greatest goal of the Transhumanist movement is to eliminate the greatest weakness in the human condition: death.
The Transhumanist worldview is based on the ultimate goal of transcending human limitations through evolving into the next evolutionary phase of humanity. If all living things have been evolving into more complex species since the first life form emerged, then humanity will also evolve into a more complex species. But rather than waiting for nature to run its course, which could take millions of years, Transhumanists seek to facilitate the evolution of our own species and accelerate the process.[2] But why stop there? If humans can interfere with evolution, is it possible that we could produce a human species far beyond anything that nature could have ever produced? Could we make a human species without disease, without weakness, without limitation? Could we even make an immortal species? The Transhumanists do not believe that this is just a plausible goal; rather, they believe that it is an inevitable fate that is within reach. (Biotechs --A brief on the transhumanist Movement)

Re: Why Creation cannot be mixed with Theistic Evolution. [Re: Rick H] #195350
01/14/23 09:27 PM
01/14/23 09:27 PM
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In the early 1800's the three angel's messages began to sound.
"Fear God and give Him glory for the hour of His judgement is come, Worship Him who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and the fountains of water."

This is the foundation upon which the everlasting gospel is built!!!
God created a perfect world in six days. (Gen.1) Set up the Sabbath as a special day of remembrance of creation and fellowship of Creator and the created.(Gen 2:1-3)
The fall and sin messed up Creation and the fellowship between the Creator and the created.
A way of reconciliation and restoration was promised, salvation offered, the promised One would come and crush the evil one.

At the very same time this message urging people to worship the Creator was being heralded, Satan launched counter movements. One main counter movement was evolution. Man was not created but evolved through many cycles of death and violence with the fittest overpowering the weaker. There is no Creator to honor, no God out there wanting worship. And definitely no judgment to answer to.


Before evolution became a highly debatable "fact" the whole foundation of Protestantism rested on the Bible. Protestantism upheld the Bible.
Fundamentalists believe the Bible is true. When it comes to the Creation account, they believe God created the earth in six days.

Evolution theories were a direct attack on the creation accounts, thus evolution challenged the Biblical record. A true fundamentalist cannot accept evolution because it not only challenges the Biblical account of creation as being a "myth", but also evolution completely upends and distorts the whole salvation plan as revealed in scripture.

By one man sin entered into the world and death came with sin.
God did not create. using violence, death, and survival of the fittest, no matter how those things manifest themselves now in a world of sin.

Thus the very fundamental foundation of the scriptures was/is definitely under attack.

So yes, there was battle. The so called scientific community challenging the Biblical accounts of Creation. Fundamental beliefs were under attack. (And still are) The new paradigm of thought being pushed was the theory there are NO fundamental beliefs in the Bible, it's all relative.

The Bible believers were suddenly faced with a lot of questions that really had not been an issue before.
Seventh-day Adventists were no exception. However:

The six day creation was always a fundamental undisputed doctrine of Biblical truth in early Adventism.


Yes, even in Adventism there were questions as to whether the whole universe or just this earthly system were created in those six days. That was debated. Since the bible in Genesis begins with the earth being without form and void with water covering it. There was discussion as to whether this was so who knows how long before God began the six day creation or whether the core globe was formed the first day. That was debated.

But these were not core fundamental principles in scripture.
In early Adventism the Biblical fundamental account of a six day perfect creation was always upheld.

The issues early Adventists argued about concerning creation were not the fundamental six day creation account, but rather related issues that are not really important to salvation, nor really spelled out in scripture. But they stood firm in the six day creation belief based on the Bible.

Of course in our present day, theistic evolution, which denies the six literal days of creation (and which is totally incompatible with Biblical creation and the whole Biblical salvation) is creeping into our colleges.
Also Kellogg got caught up in some form of bio-evolution, eugenics, which was outside the Biblical truths of salvation. Ellen White was not shy in letting him know this was not Biblical truth.

It's the basic fundamental truths in the Bible that Satan seeks to overthrow with his "science so called" theories. He is seeking to cast enough countering theories and questions on scripture, to obliterate the fundamental truths in scripture and replace them with philosophies and speculations.

Re: Why Creation cannot be mixed with Theistic Evolution. [Re: Rick H] #195392
01/27/23 01:38 AM
01/27/23 01:38 AM
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The recent Signs of the Times has an article on this subject.

Creation vx Evolution, No Middle Ground

"Some theologians have told me they take the Bible seriously but not literally. What does that mean?"


What would you think if someone told you -- take the cookbook seriously but not literal? Or how about taking your marriage vows seriously but not literal? Or I take the map seriously, but not literally?

Quote
They argue that evolution through millions of years was the way God created. On the surface, this may seem to solve the problem, but a few serious difficulties arise with this model.
First of all, the Bible says it did not happen this way. Second, it really is not consistent with either the Bible or science. Theistic and atheistic evolution interpret the scientific evidence exactly the same way, but theistic evolution inserts the supernatural into the process. How can this be "scientific"? Theistic evolution is the conventional, secular worldview with a few religious ideas awkwardly inserted, and the result is not a coherent scenario.....
Theistic evolution claims that God used evolution as His method of creation. If that were true, then God must have invented evolution, along with its endless train of suffering and death. In that case, evolution and its necessary component of death would be God's plan and not the result of Satan's work.
We have three clear choices:
(1) evil, suffering, and death were initiated by God (theistic evolution);
(2) they (evil, suffering and death) are a natural part of a godless evolutionary process (atheistic evolution); or
(3) they (evil, suffering and death) were initiated by Satan as part of a great cosmic war with God--the great controversy between Christ and Satan (the literal Bible story).
For those of us who outright reject the second option, the choice is between, on the one hand, a Creator God who is directly responsible for evil and death as part of His plan, or on the other hand, evil and death being inserted by Satan into God's originally good creation. Whether we have a coherent explanation for evil depends on whether we take the Bible's stories of Creation, the Fall, and redemption seriously and literally (Genesis 1:3; 1 Corinthians 15).

Re: Why Creation cannot be mixed with Theistic Evolution. [Re: Rick H] #195422
Yesterday at 04:01 PM
Yesterday at 04:01 PM
Rick H  Offline OP
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Now this gets interesting as Ellen White calls theistic evolutionism "The worst kind of infidelity" because it is "disguised infidelity".....

"I was then carried back to the creation and was shown that the first week, in which God performed the work of creation in six days and rested on the seventh day, was just like every other week. The great God in his days of creation and day of rest, measured off the first cycle as a sample for successive weeks till the close of time. ?These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created.? God gives us the productions of his work at the close of each literal day. Each day was accounted of him a generation, because every day he generated or produced some new portion of his work. On the seventh day of the first week God rested from his work, and then blessed the day of his rest, and set it apart for the use of man. The weekly cycle of seven literal days, six for labor, and the seventh for rest, which has been preserved and brought down through Bible history, originated in the great facts of the first seven days...

But the infidel supposition, that the events of the first week required seven vast, indefinite periods for their accomplishment, strikes directly at the foundation of the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. It makes indefinite and obscure that which God has made very plain. It is the worst kind of infidelity; for with many who profess to believe the record of creation, it is infidelity in disguise. It charges God with commanding men to observe the week of seven literal days in commemoration of seven indefinite periods, which is unlike his dealings with mortals, and is an impeachment of his wisdom.

Infidel geologists claim that the world is very much older than the Bible record makes it. They reject the Bible record, because of those things which are to them evidences from the earth itself, that the world has existed tens of thousands of years. And many who profess to believe the Bible record are at a loss to account for wonderful things which are found in the earth, with the view that creation week was only seven literal days, and that the world is now only about six thousand years old. These, to free themselves of difficulties thrown in their way by infidel geologists, adopt the view that the six days of creation were six vast, indefinite periods, and the day of God's rest was another indefinite period; making senseless the fourth commandment of God's holy law. Some eagerly receive this position, for it destroys the force of the fourth commandment, and they feel a freedom from its claims upon them. They have limited ideas of the size of men, animals and trees before the flood, and of the great changes which then took place in the earth."... https://m.egwwritings.org/en/book/106.357#358


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