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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #195179
11/16/22 04:05 PM
11/16/22 04:05 PM
dedication  Online Content

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Karen, it seems your interpretation of the trumpets is a futuristic interpretation, not a historicist interpretation. Putting most of Revelation into the future is actually the more popular and accepted method in the religious world, so you'll find much to support that view.
Now it is plain that the seven LAST plagues come during the seventh trumpet, so yes, they are in the future.

But putting the trumpets in the future circumvents the foundational evidence and build up to the end times. It also hugely downplays the rise and mission of the last day church.
I really don't see "plain and clear connections" that would suggest the trumpets are addressing things that all happen at the end, nor does a futurist interpretation do anything to help me "understand the prophetic message".
For what is the message? It's left open to imagination and speculation as to what the time of trouble may look like.

Now I do see the trumpets all pointing to the end of the world and its destruction as well. But that "pointing" was being done all through the Christian era. Each trumpet shows a supposed worldly solution to bettering the world apart from the truth in Christ, ends up in disaster and a reaping of very serious trouble. Every historic example deals with some aspect of powers that seek to control the world but end up bringing destruction because they are operating outside of God's ways. All these powers are still in operation. And in the end they will rally to supposedly bring "peace" on earth. A lot of people will think they are bringing the solution. BUT we can see in the historic trumpets that we cannot trust any of those powers. The historic trumpets stand as loud trumpet warnings so we can KNOW, not to trust in
1. A supposed return to Jewish rituals in Jerusalem (Fall of Jerusalem 70AD and 130AD)
2. A universal type government (a nation that claims to be Christian) that promotes one national religion. (Fall of western Roman Empire which at that time was led by supposed Christian Emperors)
3. An enforced modified gospel (The gospel being modified to incorporate pagan ideas under Christian language. Paganism was not conquered it was absorbed into Christianity.)
4. The papal power (obstructing heavenly light and making sure it didn't shine upon the people, though there were still some persecuted peoples who opened the Biblical light to the people.)
5. The Muslem power (another Abrahamic religion, monotheistic religion, that made powerful and forceful invasion into society)
6. Atheism and Humanism, (another beast from the bottomless pit that comes into prominence, just before the end of the 1260 years (Rev. 11:7) though that beat is rarely discussed)

The seventh trumpet we are told in plain English language, by EGW whom I believe was a prophet, began to sound in 1844.
The chapter between the sixth and seventh trumpet tells
1. The ending of the prophetic time lines
2. The end of the 1260 years ended with the rise of atheism and humanism connected with the French revolution
3. The rise of the millerite movement and the great disappointment
4. The commission to prophecy again concerning the "measuring of the temple" (The sanctuary message)

So yes, the trumpets point forward to the end of the world and its destruction BUT each one sounded its warning in the historical past, giving us information that is vital to know as we approach that end.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #195181
11/17/22 06:48 AM
11/17/22 06:48 AM
dedication  Online Content

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Karen, I hope you are not offended if I share why I don't see the trumpets as being in the future.
It may take a while to explain, but I'll try to make it as clear as I can.

First, let's look again at the "snapshot" in the introduction
Originally Posted by Karen

I believe that all the seven trumpet messages must support the snapshot of the introduction, which describes that Jesus' intercession will cease when the fire of the golden altar thrown into the earth.

The Introduction of the snapshot of Seven Trumpets is Jesus' ministration before the throne of God (see Rev. 8:2-5). Jesus stood before the golden altar and He offers up the incense of all the saints that are given to Him.
The golden altar of sanctuary has four horns upon it (Lev. 16:18). The high priest applied the blood of bull and goat upon the four horns as the last ceremony of atonement on day of atonement.

Let's bear in mind that the four horns indicate the background of the last thing of atonement ceremony. .....

While I agree that when the golden censer is thrown down, probation has closed, I see Revelation 8:2-5 giving the entire picture of Christ's work in the heavenly sanctuary from the beginning of His work in the holy place in 31 AD to the end when the censor is thrown down and probation is closed.
Let's go through these verse one at a time:
vs 2 John sees seven angels and they are given trumpets.
vs 3 THEN our High Priest comes and stands at the altar and is given much incense that he will offer with the prayers of the saints on the golden altar.

So ? before the angels start their sounding, Jesus starts His ministry of interceding.
This ?snapshot? shows Jesus in the holy place at the altar of incense before the throne interceding for the saints. He is interceding while those trumpets are sounding on the earth, for all through those trumpets the call and opportunity is given to repent.
Vs 4 The smoke of the incense with the prayers of the saints ascends before God.
All this is emphasized to show even though these trumpet angels are sounding, Christ is interceding.

Vs 5 Then (after time has elapsed) Christ picks up the golden censer and fills it with fire from the altar.
This fulfils what the earthly high priest would do on the day of atonement, before going into the Most Holy Place, they took hot coals from the altar of incense and put them in the golden censer, to take it with them into the Most Holy.
This also corresponds with the seventh trumpet when the ark of the covenant with the testimony (ten commandments is seen) Christ, at this point is still interceding but has moved into the Most Holy.
Vs 5b He throws down the censer to the earth.
This too, was done in type by earthly priests on the day of atonement when they came out from the Most Holy Place, put down the censer, their work finished.

vs 5c And there was noise, earthquake and thunder and lightning.
This is the end ? the noise, earthquake, thunder and lightning correspond with the seventh trumpet as well. As those words are repeated in Rev. 11:19 at the end of the seventh trumpet.

The rest of the information on trumpets Revelation 8:6 to 11:19 moves from the heavenly scene down to what happens on earth during that same time, and gives the entire picture of judgments upon the earth during this same entire time. (The whole Christian era) The depiction of what happens on earth ends on the same note in the seventh trumpet, as the depiction (Rev. 8:2-5) with the thunder, lightning and earthquake.

Notice in that snap shot of what is happening in heaven, there is no mention of horns, blood on horns, bulls, goats or voices. Revelation 8:2-5 is the picture of Christ?s work as High Priest interceding for His people, from the beginning of His work in the Holy Place through to His entry into the Most Holy and on to the end when earthquake, thunder and lightning are heard. As those trumpets sound, HE is interceding, offering mercy and forgiveness if they would only repent and turn from their wickedness.

Christ is ministering for His people and calling the rebellious to repentance all through the blowing of the trumpets. Yes, it is pointing to the fact that someday it will be too late. The time comes when the censer is thrown down, and it will be too late.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #195182
11/17/22 08:42 AM
11/17/22 08:42 AM
dedication  Online Content

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Just a couple more points to think about:

Are the trumpets symbolic or literal.

It seems there is a mixing of the two concepts in your presentation.
Trees and grass = people. A fallen star = papacy, etc (that is a symbolic interpretation)
But then everything dealing with water and light seems to be interpretated as literal??

Consistency is a better way, when a passage presents itself as symbolic, we need to stick to a symbolic interpretation in regard to its symbols. I agree with your symbolic interpretations that trees and grass represent people, and fallen stars represent powerful leaders in false worship.
But then symbolic interpretation needs to continue to interpret the rest of the symbols. Like the Water of the sea representing a nation and people. Mountains represent an empire, or kingdom. The polluted water represents the polluted Word of life (polluted drinking water misrepresenting the water of life - gospel and truth) Darkness representing spiritual darkness, etc.

The plague, on the other hand, I see as literal. But then they all should be literal. Literal sores, literal polluted water, literal terrible heat, literal darkness, literal evil spirits driving people's agendas. The only one we tend to see as symbolic is the Euphrates as symbolizing people,supporting Babylon.. But if the first plagues are all literally interpreterd, seems the Euphrates should be literal as well. The plagues being future, we don't really know. The language of the plagues does sound like they should be taken literally. Maybe the Euphrates drying up in the plague, may be literal as a major oil crises, the river of oil at the Euphrates drying up. It would fit, but still that's speculation.

SECOND (The four angels)
Originally Posted by Karen
. I believe the four beasts are the identical beings as the four angels of Rev. 7:1-3. This is also confirmed by the text of Rev. 9:14 "Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates."

The four angels were told to hold in Rev. 7:1-3, but they are told to loose their hold in Rev. 9:14. This connection tells of the future event. It is the time of the wrath of God, the seven last plagues

Whether the four angels holding the four winds are the same as the four beasts, I don't know -- I have never thought they were the same, but they could be. "
However, I do not see the four angels holding the winds, as being bound in the river Euphrates.

The four angels holding back the winds of strife are God's angels. They aren't bound.

The angels released from the Euphrates River are probably fallen angels because they have been bound there. The Greek word for ?bound? (deō) is only used twice in the Book of Revelation. The other verse where this word appears is in Revelation 20:2, which describes Satan being bound for 1,000 years. They've been bound there to keep them, or restrain them, from abusing human beings, and when they are released they are abusive and evil. Remember Satan took 1/3 of the angels into rebellion with him, God is binding the fallen angels from doing more than they are permitted to do in his timing. Every time things erupt into massive turmoil, some of these fallen angels were probably released and they tend to work through human beings.

Voice from heaven

Originally Posted by Karen

When we examine the passage of Rev. 9:13, which says, "...I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar..." it means God the Father is responding to Jesus' ministration because probation is over.
When the text of Rev. 9:13 is incorporated into the seven last plagues in which a voice came out from the temple, "it is done" makes perfect link. We can see where the four horns of the golden altar stands is the temple. Thus, if a voice came out from the four horns, it clearly indicate that God the Father responses to Jesus' ministration of intercession when it is done

I'm a little confused as to what you are saying here.

Revelation 9:13 reads
"Then I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet. Release the four angels who are bound at the great rive Euphrates."

This verse does not mean God is saying it is done, it is announcing another warning judgment.

The four horns are still on the altar in that verse.
In Bible times the horns of the altar in Jerusalem had provided a refuge for fugitives. Those who caught hold of the horns of the altar were granted asylum (1 Kings 1:50-53). Those horns will not be there forever as in Amos 3:14."The horns of the altar shall be cut off and fall to the ground? (Amos 3:14) When the horns of the altar fall to the ground it meant that there would be no more place to escape the coming judgment. So God calling from the altar with the four horns still in place, was an urgent call to repentance while grace was still available.

Notice when God does say "It is done"
Revelation 16:17Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came from the throne in the temple, saying, ?It is done!? 18And there were flashes of lightning, and rumblings, and peals of thunder, and a great earthquake the likes of which had not occurred since men were upon the earth?so mighty was the great quake.?

That's the seventh plague, And it corresponds with the end point of the seventh trumpet, when there is lightning and thunder and a great earthquake. At that point it is TOO LATE. Earth's experiment with sin is OVER.


Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: dedication] #195193
11/22/22 11:52 AM
11/22/22 11:52 AM
Karen Y  Online Content OP
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Thanks, Dedication, for your sharing. From your perspective, each of the Seven Trumpets is an event throughout two thousand years. Supposedly, did God's people see its message as a prophecy before the events happened?

When I look carefully at how the seven angels suppose to sound each trumpet while Jesus intercedes in the heavenly sanctuary, the truth is that they did not. They put their action to blow the seven trumpets after Jesus cast the fire of altar into the earth. Why would they "prepared themselves to sound" then? After the probation ended? Isn't this puzzling? Thus, each trumpet message may not be a historical event but something else.

The word angel appears 72 times in Revelation. According to the context, the reference indicates the literal angel of heaven, God's people or messenger, Jesus Himself, or an evil angel.

Therefore, when the first angel sounded, the first trumpet meant God's people were making a certain sound so that people of the world would heed and repent.
1 Cor. 14:8 "For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?"

I believe that the sounding of the seven trumpets is for God's remnant to carry out to the world as the warning of the coming seven last plagues while Jesus intercedes before casting the fire on the altar, which indicates the close of probation.

One of the angels from the altar (Rev. 16:7) said, "Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are they judgments." I believe this angel is one of the seven angels who "stood before God" (Rev. 8:2), eye-witnessing Jesus' mediatorial work. When God's judgment completes, those angels who stood before God affirm, "Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus" (Rev. 16:5).

There is a voice, "a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth" (Rev. 16:1).

Then, the seven trumpet angels, which I believe identical seven angels as those who have the seven last bowls of the wrath of God, acclaim the tribute of God for His righteous judgment; (Rev. 16:7) "Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are they judgments." Their action portrays as "prepared themselves to sound."

In the sanctuary context, the trumpet warns of approaching the Day of Atonement. It never was any ritual. In other words, the Feast of the Trumpet was not an event but the harbinger of the judgment day of God.

The seven trumpets are the future events corresponding to the seven last plagues. But I shouldn't be misunderstood or named "Futurists" as contemporary scholars because my approach is fundamentally different than their theology.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #195199
11/26/22 02:59 AM
11/26/22 02:59 AM
dedication  Online Content

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Originally Posted by Karen
When I look carefully at how the seven angels suppose to sound each trumpet while Jesus intercedes in the heavenly sanctuary, the truth is that they did not. They put their action to blow the seven trumpets after Jesus cast the fire of altar into the earth. Why would they "prepared themselves to sound" then? After the probation ended? Isn't this puzzling? Thus, each trumpet message may not be a historical event but something else.

The word angel appears 72 times in Revelation. According to the context, the reference indicates the literal angel of heaven, God's people or messenger, Jesus Himself, or an evil angel.

Therefore, when the first angel sounded, the first trumpet meant God's people were making a certain sound so that people of the world would heed and repent.
1 Cor. 14:8 "For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?"

Why yes, each trumpet gives a definite message! Yet, the message is always based on a call to accept and turn to the One and only Savior, Jesus Christ. This old world is heading to destruction, and each generation has only their life time to escape that destruction and find their refuge and redemption in Christ.

1st Trumpet -- sounds for the first people who were given the message. The Jewish nation.
The gospel was given to them FIRST.
They had the Savior literally walk among them. The Holy Spirit fell among the faithful in their midst. They were to be the light of the world. But instead they , as a nation, rejected Christ.

Matthew 23:37 (Jesus cries) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you that kill the prophets, and stone them which are sent unto you, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathers her chickens under her wings, and you would not!
23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Paul says Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Acts 13:46
Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, ?It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.

Their judgment came 70 AD and 130AD.

Second trumpet upon a Gentile Empire, supposedly Christian.

God's messengers, driven out by Jewish leaders, turned to the Gentiles.
We read of Philip and the apostles branching out eastward and westward all over Syria, Asia, Northern Africa, Europe, as far as England. Preaching the gospel.
The Gentile Christians became so numerous, Constantine felt he could unify the empire by joining the Christians! History books tend picture this as a triumph for Christianity, when actually it was a serious invasion combining politics and paganism with religion. Were there messengers sounding the trumpet at this time?

We don't hear that much about them but yes!! There were men like Vigilantius, (364-408) leader of the early Waldenses, Helvidius, (300-360) Jovinian [330-390)and others, like the Donatists, who were opposed to the growing superstitions in the church that was nurtured by the emperors in Rome. They lamented the union of political control over the Christian church. The trumpet was sounding!!! It was not welcomed, however. Persecution didn't end in 312, when Constantine combined Christianity with his empire, persecution only shifted against Christians who didn't follow the Roman state church's lead.
Judgment fell upon the Western Empire (476) and through that fall the church crept out from under the emperor's control. Did they repent? No.

Third Trumpet Papal pollution of Springs of living water

8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

With the western emperor out of the way, the papacy rose in brilliancy, to take his place on the Roman seat. A great star falling, usually means a fallen religious leader.

The water life:
Isaiah Ho, EVERY ONE THAT THIRSTETH, COME YE TO THE WATERS, without money and without price. Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David? (Isaiah 55:1-3).

concerning the prophets;.. feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets..is profaneness gone forth into all the land. Jeremiah 23:15

The living waters represents the glorious truths of Christ's salvation for mankind. They bring life.
To pollute them brings death.
Thus the papacy polluted the gospel of salvation.

Again were there messengers sounding the trumpet?
Of course! The church in the wilderness.
Oh, they were hunted down, and persecuted, a thorn in the pride of the growing papal power, but they were there, and they believed in witnessing. They had the Bible in their own language which they shared carefully (for they were risking their lives) They were the true keepers of God's Word.

All through the trumpets, yes, there were messengers calling for repentance, and a return/acceptance of the true gospel. in Jesus Christ

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #195202
11/27/22 05:53 PM
11/27/22 05:53 PM
Karen Y  Online Content OP
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Jesus said in Matt. 5:18
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Every "jot or one tittle" is very important in the Scripture.

The most word in the Ten Commandments is the fourth one: "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." (ex. 20:8-11).

The importance of the Sabbath is emphasized by many words in the Ten Commandments. Satan knows the fact, so he endeavored to deceive and promote Sunday as the counterfeit Sabbath.

The shortest commandments are sixth, seventh and eighth commandments: "Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery.Thou shalt not steal." No wonder that Satan twisted people's mind to consider as the most offensive sins in the world are these shortest commandments.

In heaven's perspective, the Sabbath is the most important. Those who keep the Sabbath day should regard the Sabbath according to God's will.

This is the truth that disobedience to Ten Commandments, then they will receive the plagues.

By virtue of such sharp contrast of longest and shortest commandments, we realize the weightier force in the Sabbath commandment.

I applied this method to the plagues. Which one has the longest description among the seven plagues? Does it have a relevance to the Sabbath law? I think it does.

The sixth plague is the three unclean spirits who work against the Sabbath of the Lord. The mouth of dragon, the beast, and false prophets are uniting to obliterate the Sabbath by the powers of religious ecumenism in the world. It is the obvious movement in our contemporary days, ever so strong.

How about with the seven seals? which one is the longest one in description? Is the sixth seal relevant to the Sabbath on the day of the wrath of God (Rev. 6:12-17)? Those who despised the clear message of the Sabbath-keeping will cry out, " mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb" (Rev. 6:16). We know the Sabbath will be the last testing truth before the Second Advent of Jesus' consummation.

The fifth trumpet is the most extended description among the seven trumpets. The star falls from heaven represents the Papacy, the entity that prevents people from receiving God's seal. But God commanded that "do not hurt" those who are sealed (Rev. 9:4-6).

No scholars have taught this kind of interpretation in the world, except I know a man who has disseminated this method of understanding over the last forty years. I have examined his teaching for a few decades, proving it to be verifiable and accurate.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #195207
11/28/22 10:48 PM
11/28/22 10:48 PM
Karen Y  Online Content OP
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Posts: 452
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It is no accident that the Sabbath is deeply connected from each of the seven churches, seals, trumpets and plagues when we put first by the most words count among them. In other words, the idea of the Sabbath is pervasive into all of the four pillars of Revelation.

The Sabbath commandment has the highest counts of word among the Ten. the fourth commandment is the strongest commandment of the Ten.
6th Plague has the top rank of words count among the seven plagues -- three unclean spirits unite to destroy the Sabbath.
6th Seal has the top rank of words count among the seven seals -- Those who rejected the true Sabbath will cry out at the end, "mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb"
4th Church has the top rank of words count among the seven churches -- Jezebel brought Baal worship to God's people; sun worship was introduced.
5th Trumpets has the top rank of words count among the seven trumpets -- the fallen star is none other than the papacy who endeavors to prevent people to receive the seal of God; the Sabbath.

I suggest to the readers for the second rank of words count among the four pillars. You shall see something stands out for an understanding.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #195212
11/29/22 06:39 PM
11/29/22 06:39 PM
dedication  Online Content

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Interesting points brought up. Yes the sabbath is the one commandment that has been seriously attacked not only by non Christian?s but also by Christianity itself. Thus it is sign that will be a strikingly obvious one as to who honors the Creator God and who follows the mandated counterfeits of the world. Yes, the dragon, beast and false prophet will be united in enforcing the counterfeit sabbath.
Yet the issue of the false Sabbath comes into the picture much earlier. The third trumpet warns about the pollution of the waters of life. Way back when the papacy was still young the gospel truths were being replaced by pagan ideas. The gospel of grace and Christs righteousness was being muddied by philosophies and pagan customs. This included an assault on the true sabbath way back then.

The sabbath, however, as important as it is, is not the most important message in revelation
Revelation is the revelation of Christ. This is the first and most important message
The first trumpet emphasized this.
The first trumpet sounded a message concerning a people who professed to worship God They were very zealous in their sabbath observance.
Why was a trumpet sounding coming judgment on them?
That judgment fell on them because they rejected Jesus, the only one who could save them. Sabbath keeping without Jesus is meaningless. It misses the purpose

True followers of Christ will keep His commandments and that includes the seventh day sabbath. And yes it will become a distinct sign as to who we worship. Yet the Sabbath itself can?t save anyone. If Satan can lead us away from Christ he really doesn?t care if we still go through forms of sabbath keeping It?s only when we know and believe in Christ as the Creator, Savior and Lord of the Sabbath are we able to stand.in the ranks of the saved.

So I see the first trumpet pointing us first and foremost to Christ
And yes, the first seal does the same as the white horse with the pure gospel rides forth. But there too the horses get muddied darkened as the gospel is counterfeited and yes the souls under the alter were people who stood under the shadow of the cross but were slain because of their faith through the ages and yes some because they refused Sunday as their sabbath and kept the seventh day
But the first trumpet shows it is useless to observe the sabbath of Christ is rejected

So I do find the spiritual lessons on the sabbath interesting which one can draw from the trumpets. But I see no reason to move away from the historicist view which places everything in a progressive historical development and how it all leads up to and matures in the last crises.

Last edited by dedication; 11/30/22 12:45 PM.
Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #195216
12/01/22 10:20 AM
12/01/22 10:20 AM
Karen Y  Online Content OP
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 452
Michigan, US
Thanks, dedication, for your affirmation that Christ is the first and most important in Revelation.

He reveals to us that He is the Creator and Redeemer thru the significance of the Sabbath, which we discover systematically in the overview of the prophecy book.

Jesus Christ, who sat on the right hand of God's throne, is worthy to break the seven-sealed book. When the sealing message is proclaimed fully, and 144000 are completely sealed, the ultimate revelation of Jesus Christ will happen by the Second Coming. Intricately the Sabbath is woven to point toward Christ and to know Him. The message prepares the world either receive or reject Him.

In this contemporary judgment hour, those who came into the church are being judged in the heavenly courts for either being sealed or rejected. I discover that's the overview of the first few chapters.

Seven Churches (Ch. 1-3) => throne room judgment (Ch. 4-5) => Seven Seals (Ch. 6-7 and 8:1).

In the throne room, there is an Investigative Judgment in progress (Ch. 4-5).

We discover that each message of the Seven Seals has a connotation of judgment. For example, a balance of scale, "judge and avenge our blood", who shall stand on the great day of the wrath of God, etc.

To be sure, the interlude between the sixth and seventh seal emphasizes the Sabbath; "hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads" (Rev. 7:3).

Those who are sealed will blow the Seven Trumpets' message. In the Old Testament, only priests can blow trumpets (Num. 10:8), you see.

There is the same pattern reoccurs in the Seven Trumpets message between the sixth and the seventh with the emphasis on the Sabbath, which is Chapter Ten: "And share by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should her time no longer" (Rev. 10:6). And God's people are commanded to "prophesy again."

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #195218
12/02/22 12:15 PM
12/02/22 12:15 PM
dedication  Online Content

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I'm sad to see that it appears you have moved all of Revelation out of historicist time into the last 150 or so years. The problem I see in putting everything into the last days is that it skips over both the full Christian era of Christ's priestly ministry as well as skipping over the development of the "man of sin" on earth. And while it may SEEM to emphasis the investigative judgement and the sabbath in a greater way, it really does NOT support Christ's two phase priestly ministry and it contradicts a lot of EGW's comments on the book of Revelation.

While your interpretation is different from the regular futuristic interpretation, it has still accepted and follows the futuristic pattern. Even though it has injected into and focuses on Adventist concepts in those patterns it still erases the historical foundations upon which those concepts were developed. This troubles me.

Remember that the historicist interpretation is a pillar of Adventism, historicism was also a pillar in Protestantism, remember too, that futurism is a Catholic pillar developed to vindicate the papal church, and destroy the protest in Protestantism.

When Protestants first embraced futurism they still opposed the papacy. They didn't think that would change, but it has, to the point where now they openly declare the protest is dead!
Remember too, when the false Sabbath (Sunday) will be enforced, they will THINK they are enforcing the lost Sabbath of the Lord, re-establishing the commandments and restoring God's favor by doing so. The papacy wrote a whole encyclical saying how important sabbath (and yes, he called it sabbath) keeping was in honoring and reverencing God and linked it to commandment keeping. The importance of Sabbath keeping is part and parcel of Catholic doctrine.
BUT they have the wrong the sabbath -- a counterfeit sabbath
Something historicism points out.

So basically an interpretation which seeks to combine Adventism with a futuristic type of setting, thus destroying the historical view of prophecy, raises the big question , can an interpretation with a futuristic setting be combined with Adventism without doing serious damage to the foundation upon which Adventism was built?

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