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Who is the beast of Rev. 11:7 ? #195308
01/05/23 08:32 AM
01/05/23 08:32 AM
dedication  Offline OP
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Revelation 11:3 And I will give strength unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.



Who is this beast?

We see several beasts in Revelation that have been identified.
1. There's the seven headed red dragon who is that old serpent the devil.
2. There's a seven headed beast in Rev. 13 which looks like a combination of Daniel 7's beasts. It's usually identified as the Roman Papacy.
3. There's the earth beast in Rev. 13 with lamb like horns and a tongue like the dragon. He comes on the scene later than the seven headed beast. It's usually identified as the United States.
4. There's another seven headed scarlet beast in Rev. 17, that was, is not, and ascends out of the bottomless pit, and carries the harlot Babylon. That beast is usually identified as the political power of the Roman papacy.

But who is this beast in Rev. 11:7 ?

Some will say it's THE beast of Rev. 13 -- Roman Papacy.
But how can that be right, since this beast ascends at the end of the 1260 years when the witnesses are finishing their testimony. The Papal beast is receiving it's fatal wound at that point in time.

According the Great Controversy 269
Quote
?When they shall have finished [are finishing] their testimony.? The period when the two witnesses were to prophesy clothed in sackcloth ended in 1798. As they were approaching the termination of their work in obscurity, war was to be made upon them by the power represented as ?the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit.? In many of the nations of Europe the powers that ruled in Church and State had for centuries been controlled by Satan, through the medium of the papacy. But here is brought to view a new manifestation of Satanic power.


The context is the French Revolution. So would this beast be just an evil manifestation limited to the French Revolution?

Or are their other indications and connections to identify this beast?
He is rarely mentioned in commentaries which tend to gloss over his mention and just focus on the war against scripture.

Re: Who is the beast of Rev. 11:7 ? [Re: dedication] #195317
01/09/23 03:42 PM
01/09/23 03:42 PM
ProdigalOne  Offline
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One of the major characteristics of the French Revolution, as is the case with communism in general, is an atheistic system that places the ruling party in the place of God. If Jesus is our solid Rock, the foundation upon which we build our house, then a system with no foundation that ?ascends out of the bottomless pit?, would quite possibly be atheism or the worship of the Goddess of Reason. If this is the case, the beast of Revelation 11 is still very active.


"...I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands..."

Isaiah 49:15-16
Re: Who is the beast of Rev. 11:7 ? [Re: dedication] #195338
01/13/23 05:57 AM
01/13/23 05:57 AM
dedication  Offline OP
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I agree the beast in Revelation11 is an atheistic system. It was very involved in the French Revolution. The Bible pictures it as ascending out of the bottomless pit and killing the two witnesses (Old and New Testament)

. The other beasts we usually talk about in Revelation 13 are apostate Christian powers.
The Roman papal beast, and the second American (at first proclaiming liberty and freedom of religion) but turning into a controlling, persecuting beast imitating the Roman papal beast.

The first beast in Rev. 13 suppressed the Bible.

But the beast in Revelation 11 isn't interested in the Bible or God.
This beast killed (at least tried to kill) the Bible, but God's Word came to life again after 3 1/2 years.

Some, who have studied the various revolutions that shook the world around the close of the 1260 years have been looking for a common thread between them and found that thread to be secret societies.

History shows that Freemasonry is inseparable linked with the French revolution (as well as the American and European revolutions of the 1700s and 1800s).
The slogans were "liberty, equality, virtue, and morality.".

France exhibited what happens when a nation throws out God and His Word. Liberty, equality, virtue and morality, went out as well. A reign of terror took hold. What started out looking like a noble fight for liberty equality and virtue soon turned into a mad and blood thirsty scene.

The interesting thing is that freemasonry leaders were also very much involved in the American revolution which also fought for Liberty, equality and virtue. George Washington was a mason and there were masonic rituals connected with setting up the liberated government of the US. However, the Bible and God still held considerable influence in America. Thus America prospered, due to its strong Protestant leanings. But what happens when Protestantism is declared dead????

Again we see illustrated that claims of liberty and equality, though great concepts when linked with true Christian ideals, yet when divorced from these ideals they lead into disaster.




Re: Who is the beast of Rev. 11:7 ? [Re: dedication] #195433
02/07/23 06:57 AM
02/07/23 06:57 AM
dedication  Offline OP
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?When they shall have finished [are finishing] their testimony.? The period when the two witnesses were to prophesy clothed in sackcloth ended in 1798. As they were approaching the termination of their work in obscurity, war was to be made upon them by the power represented as ?the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit.? In many of the nations of Europe the powers that ruled in Church and State had for centuries been controlled by Satan, through the medium of the papacy. But here is brought to view a new manifestation of Satanic power. {GC88 268.3}

It had been Rome's policy, under a profession of reverence for the Bible, to keep it locked up in an unknown tongue, and hidden away from the people. Under her rule the witnesses prophesied, ?clothed in sackcloth.? But another power?the beast from the bottomless pit?was to arise to make open, avowed war upon the Word of God. {GC88 269.1}

According to the words of the prophet, then, a little before the year 1798 some power of Satanic origin and character would rise to make war upon the Bible. And in the land where the testimony of God's two witnesses should thus be silenced, there would be manifest the atheism of the Pharaoh, and the licentiousness of Sodom. {GC88 269.3}

?The beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.? The atheistical power that ruled in France during the Revolution and the reign of terror, did wage such a war upon the Bible as the world had never witnessed (GC88 273)

In France arose an atheistical power that openly declared war against the authority of Heaven.

A power from beneath is working to bring about the last great scenes in the drama,--Satan coming as Christ, and working with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in those who are binding themselves together in secret societies. Those who are yielding to the passion for confederation are working out the plans of the enemy. The cause will be followed by the effect. 8T 28 {Ev 622.2}


What can we learn from the above quotes concerning this particular beast.

1. New manifestation of Satanic power
2. Makes open avowed war on Bible
3. Atheistic and licentious
4, Basically destroys (Kills) the Bible
5. Comes up from the bottomless pit
6. Manifests itself in France during the French Revolution


There is only one other mention of a beast coming up from a bottomless pit.
That's in Revelation 17. The beast the woman Babylon rides.

Is there any connection -- or is it just that both receive their power "from beneath"?


Rev. 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.


Re: Who is the beast of Rev. 11:7 ? [Re: dedication] #195571
03/21/23 03:40 AM
03/21/23 03:40 AM
dedication  Offline OP
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Seems no one is willing to address the above question.

So let's explore this mystery beast of Revelation eleven, a little further.
Some think this beast is France since EGW writes considerably on the verses in Rev. 11, depicting the French Revolution, and this beast comes up from the bottomless pit during the French Revolution.

But remember, France was the "first son" of the Catholic Church, as in 508, Clovis, the king of the Franks at that time, converted to Catholicism and used his armies to enforce the papal religion on the multitudes. For 1290 years France had been huge supporter of the Papacy. The Bartholomew Massacre had been at the papal request and celebrated with sadistic glee by papal leaders.
France marked the beginning of the 1290 years by offering their support to the papal system in 508 AD, and France marked the temporary end of the papal power at the end of the 1290 (and 1260) years, by inflicting it's wounding.

In the late 1700's this nation that was so zealous in supporting the papacy, swung violently to the opposite side. There was a revolution against the monarch, and the papal system. Sort of a shaking off all powerful restrainers and declaring freedom, liberty and equality. That revolution, while it didn't succeed in destroying Christianity (Christianity actually grew much stronger following the revolution) it had a profound effect on the whole world~
The beast cannot just symbolize an idea, doctrine, or theory of social organization, such as atheism or communism, but must represent a political entity with an identifiable ruling power,
And somehow, France just doesn't seem to fit, it seems bigger than France. The beast manifested itself in France, but that's different from being France.

One author suggests:

Quote
In order to identify this power, we need to identify the power that ruled France during the revolution.

'The beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.' The atheistical power that ruled in France during the Revolution and the Reign of Terror, did wage such a war against God and His holy word as the world had never witnessed. The worship of the Deity was abolished by the National Assembly. Bibles were collected and publicly burned with every possible manifestation of scorn. The law of God was trampled underfoot. The institutions of the Bible were abolished. The weekly rest day was set aside, and in its stead every tenth day was devoted to reveling and blasphemy. Baptism and the Communion were prohibited. And announcements posted conspicuously over the burial places declared death to be an eternal sleep (The Great Controversy, Ellen G. White, 273.2).
History shows that Freemasonry is inseparable from the French revolution (as well as the American and European revolutions of the 1700s and 1800s). The ideas of Freemasonry, with its slogan of "liberty, equality, and fraternity" were at the heart of the French revolution. The key leaders in the revolution were Freemasons, or members of various factions/clubs started by Freemasons (e.g. Girondins, Jacobins), including many of the army, Lafayette (commander of National Guard) and approximately 40% of his officers, Louis Philippe II, Robespierre, Voltaire, Dr. Guillotine, Marat, Mirabeau, election committees members, 247 of 749 members elected during the third parliament, and at least 320 of 1,336 delegates to the Estates-General, and others. The resulting leadership under Napoleon was predominantly made up of Freemasons. They were involved throughout the political spectrum, so what may have started out as a noble fight for freedom, descended into chaotic, bloody anarchy and infighting.

5 & 6 The Angel & Identifying the Beast From the Bottomless Pit



This beast is a new manifestation of Satanic power, distinct from the power that ruled during the middle ages, but connected with that power, and easily confused with it. Though the first power will condemn it, while secretly supporting it. Rather confusing statements.

Any thoughts on this?
I'm still studying, trying to figure out just who this beast represents. He is definitely against true Christianity and quite comfortable promoting an atheist setting. But that doesn't mean he won't assume a Christian face if that serves his purposes.
EGW says it's a new manifestation of satanic power, and the Bible says it came up from the bottomless pit.
It's been largely ignored in Adventist presentations, but I don't think that beast only reared itself in France, he may be very active now and in the future.

Re: Who is the beast of Rev. 11:7 ? [Re: dedication] #195585
03/23/23 06:42 PM
03/23/23 06:42 PM
Daryl  Offline

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The only two beasts I can think of are the First Beast and the Second Beast of Revelation 13 that are active in the last days.

The beast you are talking about is in connection with the 6th Trumpet.


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Who is the beast of Rev. 11:7 ? [Re: dedication] #195586
03/24/23 01:28 AM
03/24/23 01:28 AM
dedication  Offline OP
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Good to see more joining the conversation.

Actually EGW says the beast of Revelation 11 came up in France during the French Revolution in the 1790's.
It came up in the interlude between the sixth and seventh trumpet.



It came up at the time the papal beast was receiving it's deadly wound.

EGW calls it ANOTHER power from beneath.


Following are quotes dealing with this beast.


Quote
Said the angel of the Lord: "The holy city [the true church] shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. . . .And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. . . . And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and a half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them." [Revelation 11:2-11.] {GC88 266.1}
The periods here mentioned??forty and two months,? and ?a thousand two hundred and threescore days??are the same, alike representing the time in which the church of Christ was to suffer oppression from Rome. The 1260 years of papal supremacy began with the establishment of the papacy in A. D. 538, and would therefore terminate in 1798.{GC 266.2}...

"When they shall have finished [are finishing] their testimony." The period when the two witnesses were to prophesy clothed in sackcloth ended in 1798. As they were approaching the termination of their work in obscurity, war was to be made upon them by the power represented as "the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit." In many of the nations of Europe the powers that ruled in Church and State had for centuries been controlled by Satan, through the medium of the papacy. But here is brought to view a new manifestation of Satanic power. {GC88 268.3}

It had been Rome's policy, under a profession of reverence for the Bible, to keep it locked up in an unknown tongue, and hidden away from the people. Under her rule the witnesses prophesied, "clothed in sackcloth." But another power "the beast from the bottomless pit" was to arise to make open, avowed war upon the Word of God. {GC88 269.1} ...

According to the words of the prophet, then, a little before the year 1798 some power of Satanic origin and character would rise to make war upon the Bible. And in the land where the testimony of God's two witnesses should thus be silenced, there would be manifest the atheism of the Pharaoh, and the licentiousness of Sodom. This prophecy has received a most exact and striking fulfillment in the history of France. During the Revolution of 1793, [GC88 269.3]


Quote
The same master-spirit that urged on the St. Bartholomew Massacre led also in the scenes of the Revolution. Jesus Christ was declared to be an impostor, and the rallying cry of the French infidels was, "Crush the Wretch," meaning Christ. Heaven-daring blasphemy and abominable wickedness went hand in hand, and the basest of men, the most abandoned monsters of cruelty and vice, were most highly exalted. In all this, supreme homage was paid to Satan; while Christ, in his characteristics of truth, purity, and unselfish love, was crucified. {GC88 273.1}
?The beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.? The atheistical power that ruled in France during the Revolution and the reign of terror, did wage such a war upon the Bible as the world had never witnessed. {GC 88: 273.2}

When error in one garb has been detected, Satan only masks it in a different disguise, and multitudes receive it as eagerly as at the first. When the people found Romanism to be a deception, and he could not through this agency lead them to transgression of God's law, he urged them to regard all religion as a cheat, and the Bible a fable; and casting aside the divine statutes, they gave themselves up to unbridled iniquity. {GC88 285.1}
The fatal error which wrought such woe for the inhabitants of France was the ignoring of this one great truth: that true freedom lies within the proscriptions of the law of God. [GC88 285.2..

When Satan wrought through the Roman Church to lead men away from obedience, his agency was concealed, and his work was so disguised that the degradation and misery which resulted were not seen to be the fruit of transgression. ... When France publicly prohibited the Bible, wicked men and spirits of darkness exulted in their attainment of the object so long desired, a kingdom free from the restraints of the law of God. {GC285.3}

But God's faithful witnesses, slain by the blasphemous power that "ascendeth out of the bottomless pit," were not long to remain silent. {GC88 286.1



This beast is playing a strong role in our world today. We see his work developing all around.

Quote
the world-wide dissemination of the same teachings that led to the French Revolution--all are tending to involve the whole world in a struggle similar to that which convulsed France. {Ed 228.2}

Let all who would understand the meaning of these things read the eleventh chapter of Revelation. {Which depicted the French Revolution)Read every verse, and learn the things that are yet to take place in the cities. Read also the scenes portrayed in the eighteenth chapter of the same book.--MR 1518 (May 10, 1906). {LDE 95.4}



Last edited by dedication; 03/24/23 01:18 PM.
Re: Who is the beast of Rev. 11:7 ? [Re: dedication] #195662
04/12/23 06:26 AM
04/12/23 06:26 AM
dedication  Offline OP
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This beast in Revelation 11 manifests itself in the old world -- as does the Rev. 13 first beast.
Could the beast of Rev. 11 be the sixth head on the composite beast of Revelation 13. He is the one who wounded the papal head by giving it a fatal blow. Is he the sixth head that "is" when the beast of Revelation 13 and 17 "is not".

Rev. 17 has the sixth head as "is" when the scarlet beast "is not".

Re: Who is the beast of Rev. 11:7 ? [Re: dedication] #195667
04/14/23 09:57 AM
04/14/23 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by dedication
Revelation 11:3 And I will give strength unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.



Who is this beast?
...
According the Great Controversy 269
Quote
?When they shall have finished [are finishing] their testimony.? The period when the two witnesses were to prophesy clothed in sackcloth ended in 1798. As they were approaching the termination of their work in obscurity, war was to be made upon them by the power represented as ?the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit.? In many of the nations of Europe the powers that ruled in Church and State had for centuries been controlled by Satan, through the medium of the papacy. But here is brought to view a new manifestation of Satanic power.




I'm confused. Didn't you just answer it?

Which beast ascends from the bottomless pit.
Which beast makes war with the saints?

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Of course that beast may use other powers to make the war, but if the question is who is that beast, why is that a question that's not already answered?

Re: Who is the beast of Rev. 11:7 ? [Re: dedication] #195670
04/14/23 01:01 PM
04/14/23 01:01 PM
dedication  Offline OP
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Great to see you posting again, Kland!

Yes, I agree, obviously the beast in Rev. 11, is the work of satan in making war with the saints.
The question is what human power is the agent through which the dragon is manifesting himself in the depiction of each beast.

The beast in Rev. 11 is a "power from beneath" he comes up from the abyss.

The beast in Rev. 17, though it has seven heads, yet the beast itself that powers all those heads is an eighth that isn't a head but is the beast itself, that comes up and goes down into the abyss.

Yes, it's all the dragon at work -- I agree,
But yes, he uses human powers to do his work.
What human agency did the dragon raise up and employ in Rev. 11.

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