I can see this is a another dead-end conversation that's not going to go anywhere.

But I am curious, why your determined resistance towards calling a dragon beast a beast.

I'm just sharing what I have found and what makes sense to me, and what I believe is what the Bible is saying. In Revelation the dragon is a symbolic code for satan, the fallen angel, the power behind all these beasts.
Why do I believe that? Mainly because it seems obvious to me that is how Revelation uses the term.
It's what Revelation says it is (Rev 12:9 Rev. 20:2) in so many words.

The dragon isn't symbolic of just another national power.
This dragon is depicted as being in heaven before creation (Rev 12:14),
he is present at Christ's human birth with plans to devour the child (Rev 12:4)
this dragon was defeated and cast down at Christ's crucifixion (Rev 12:9-10, John 12:31,32)
this dragon is the accuser of the brethren before God, (Rev. 12:10)
he is active all through history, (Rev. 12 :13,14)
active at the time of the end (Rev 12:17)
thrown and chained in bottomless pit after the second coming, (Rev 20:2)
and finally in the lake of fire after the millennium.(Rev 20:10)

It all adds up into defining one character -- Satan.

I believe the beasts are symbolic of human powers, kings, empires etc. Why? Because that's what I see in scripture --
(Daniel 7:17; 8:20-21)
They arise from the earth or the sea.

So I can return the question, why are you determined to turn the symbolic dragon, into a symbolic beast?

However, this thread is about the beast of Revelation 11:7

He rose to power during the French Revolution.
The Bible, which was now available to the people was attacked
Revelation 11:3 And I (God) will give power unto my two witnesses (the old and new testament), and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred threescore days, (1260 years) clothed in sackcloth.

Through the medium of the papacy (the sea beast) , Satan (the dragon) had long controlled the powers that ruled in Church and State. In the name of reverence for the scriptures the Bible had been kept locked away from the common people. Faithful ones risked their lives to spread the words of scripture.
The Reformation offered the people the scriptures and truth was opening up to the people.
Satan (the dragon) through the medium of the papacy (the sea beast) sent waves of armies to destroy the protestant movement. France was the worst, with the horrors of the massacre of Bartholomew topping the their assault, pretty much wiping Protestantism out of that country.

Yet despite the violent reaction to stamp out Protestantism, Protestantism was growing, people wanted freedom, they were tired of monarchical and clerical oppression.

Over in the "New World" a whole new way of governing was taking shape, advocating liberty, equality and fraternity. Protestants were immigrating there by thousands. There the "earth beast" was rising giving freedom and equality and the Bible people.

The papal beast was loosing power and influence.
Satan (the dragon) needed a new beast to counteract God's work.

1. How could he neutralize the power of the Bible
2. How could he undo the message of righteousness by faith taught by Protestantism?
3. How could he neutralize and bring the earth beast under his power?

1. He (the dragon) would set aside his papal beast, give it a fatal wound, for a time, till people would think that beast was dead and stop fearing him.
2. He would blame all the religious wars, the lording over the people by the elite classes, and other evil lurking in the state church UPON THE Bible and upon the God Who inspired the Bible. He would make God and the Bible out to be the enemy, in order to neutralize the power of the Bible.
3. He would take the concepts that provided safety under the domain of the earth beast, and create a similar beast without the Bible or God.

One country was open and ready to play the roll of this new beast. France.
This new beast wanted liberty, equality and fraternity, but it didn't want God or the Bible.
Just what Satan wanted.

He wanted a beast that would counter that earth beast over in America that was taking his prey.
He would so influence the minds of men that wanted Liberty and Equality, to set up a government where the Bible would be looked upon as evil, and God would be largely rejected.

So we see the counter earthly power -- a beast which the dragon raised up to help him bring down the American earth beast of Rev. 13.
Both being based on the "liberty, equality, fraternity" principles. One beast brought a reign of terror, the other was blessed.
One showed the dragon's character, the other was raised up by God to help His people.

Some have thought of the American beast as the sixth head -- but America was separate and independent of the sea beast, not one of it's heads.

Did you know the statue of Liberty came from France -- a gift from France. The statue is a figure of Libertas, the Roman Goddess of Liberty. The ancient Roman Republic was established simultaneously with the creation of Libertas and is associated with the overthrow of the Tarquin kings.
But history shows the Roman Republic turned into an empire and then into the papacy.

America was a real thorn in the Satan's plans. How could he bring this powerful earth beast under his control? Interestingly he is doing it using both an attack on the Bible and a resurgence of a desire for religious enforcement linking with with papal beast

Was Satan just back tracking, reviewing the previous beasts and how he broke down the Roman republic, turned it into a controlled empire, (Roman beast) then into the papal beast and is now using the same process to take down the American republic and transform the American beast into one that would work with the papal beast (the one people no longer fear because they think that part is dead).

But in the meantime, with the Roman Papal beast, temporally out of commission, he needed another head (his sixth head) a human power beast -- to work for him, to bring down Protestantism and bring people back under the influence of the papal beast.

The papacy was wounded in 1798, three years later, in 1801 the papal religion was declared the state religion of France, the clergy and pope were restored, though politically weakened. The attack on Catholicism was only a means to an end, and its road to restoration quickly put in place. This had to be done because people feared and resented the tyranny of papal Rome. But now in robbing her of the power legally mandate and by law enforce her religion, most consider that part of papal Rome dead. Now it is rapidly healing, and people seem ready to welcome again it's power. However there will be a rude awakened when the Roman power seizes that power again.

And what about Protestantisms firm stand upon the Bible as the unfailing Divine Word -- it has been thoroughly riddled with criticism ..... the protestant protest is now what is declared dead.

So what is this earthly human power that was raised by the dragon, to utterly destroy faith in the Bible and destroy Christian morals and beliefs?



The beast of Rev. 11:7 is a continuation or arm of the papal beast as we shall see as we study it further, and it qualifies as it's sixth head when the papal beast "is not" "yet is".

And yes, Kland -- the dragon that old serpent the devil is behind all the evil powers of the world. No empire, king or earthly human organization is the prime source of evil, they are made up of people for whom Christ died, and they have the choice to follow Him, or to give themselves for the service of the dragon. The dragon is the master mind behind the evil, and he masterly manipulates human powers to fulfil his plans.

But God also has a plan -- and yes, HE will win.

I agree with what you were saying about a dragon. But I disagree that it cannot be discounted as being referred to as a beast.

If you asked a room of 8th graders if they would agree that a dragon is a beast, do you think there would be unanimous agreement?

For you to disagree with what seems like a straight forward statement, you must have some cherished idea that is threatened.

Implying that all beasts are symbolic of national powers.
Has that been substantiated?

Perhaps this is that cherished idea.

But I would go with the 8th graders.

The problem there is that eighth graders are thinking literal, not symbolic when you talk to them about dragons.

Literally, of course a serpent, a snake, are literal reptiles in the animal world. A mythical dragon would be considered a mythical animal of beastly or magical nature.

But Revelation does not use these terms in a literal sense.
Their reality aren't literal animals in revelation.
We need to look at how Daniel and Revelation uses these symbols, not to eighth graders who haven't studied prophecy, only read mythical stories.

Yet even the symbols differ -- all the beasts seem to have mammal characteristics, while the dragon is reptile???

Anyway I've shared what I've found to be true. If you think different that's OK, it's up to you to figure out what the symbols mean and how it all fits together

8th graders can't understand prophecy!

What powers arose in the 1790's ??

We need to go back a little further.
Remember the Protestant Reformation had taken place, and people were losing faith in the papacy. The protestants, during this time, using the Bible, were unmasking the papacy as the anti-Christ. Not good news as far as the papacy was concerned.

A new order was established in the papal system with the specific purpose to refute and "destroy" Protestantism and bring the nations back under the control of the papacy.

But by the mid-1700's not only was the papacy loosing influence, now, in the years just before the 1790's even this new order was being suppressed, distrusted and cast out by the nations.

According to Britannica


In Great Controversy in the chapter on the French Revolution, page 235 EGW comments on this power.
Great Controversy



This is what happened with help from report by an Australian researcher Frank O'Collin,

King Louis XVI of France came up with a plan to tax the wealthy families and the Catholic Church in an attempt to improve the standard of living for the poor, who were becoming rather restless.

The man often referred to as the Black Pope, (Superior General of the Jesuit army) Fr. Gabriel Lenkiewicz, saw this as a way for him to carry out revenge against the Europeans for their role in attempting to destroy the Jesuit Order. He began a propaganda campaign to stir up the French people, till soon there was rioting in the streets.
King Louis proposed a new Constitution for a monarchy that would give the lower classes more democratic privileges, but somehow the people didn't hear of it, or were led to distrust it. The rioting developed into full-fledged revolution.

Pope Pius VI allegedly ordered Emperor Leopold II of Austria, a Jesuit, to attack France. But Leopold died before that war happened. Meanwhile France descended into a reign of terror. Jesuit agent Antoine Christophe Saliceti was grooming Napoleon Bonaparte for his role, Napoleon later suppressed the revolution and set up a whole new government order, both removing the existent pope and three years later reseating the next pope. All of the treasure from the Vatican was moved to Switzerland and stored in private Jesuit banks. This money was used to finance Napoleon's army throughout the successful years of his crusade. The whole concept of government was being changed in Europe!
Napoleon crowned himself emperor in 1804. He also was successfully waging war against the surrounding European nations and expanding his empire. The new pope was sent to prison. By now the Jesuits decided that Napoleon was out of control and had to be dealt with.

With Napoleon's power weakened, General Brzozowski (he was elected twentieth Superior General of the Society of Jesus and was its first world-wide general) met with Pope Pius VII at his prison in 1814 and a new deal was hatched to restore the Jesuit Order, and to grant it even new lands and rights in Asia. The agreement was that the Jesuits would arrest Napoleon and have Pope Pius VII returned to the Vatican. Also the Jesuits would restate their pledge of loyalty to the Pope and some of the wealth of the church would be returned to the Vatican.
​
Thus it was that the Society of the Jesuit Order was fully restored by Papal letter on August 14, 1914. Napoleon abdicated his throne that same year and was exiled to the Island of Elba. In 1815 he escaped the island, returned to Paris, built up a new army and conducted what was known as his 100-day campaign. British and Prussian forces defeated him at the infamous Battle of Waterloo and this time Napoleon was exiled to the remote Island of Saint Helena where he remained until his death.

Jeuits spread all over the world. There influence has been exceedingly great, though usually never on front page, mostly behind the scenes. The protest in Protestantism has been almost completely silenced. Signifying the success of the Jesuits!
Fifty years ago, the term "Jesuit" was regarded in negative light, they were a force to be feared. Many statesmen back in America's early years predicted it was a force that would destroy America. Now the internet is full of webpages praising them for their dedication, knowledge and work. Interesting how "history" has been changed.

The average 8th graders don't study it so how could they understand?
It's not a matter of mental ability, but go into any average classroom, the 13 year old isn't interested in Revelation. They are more interested in dragons on video games. Sadly.

Basically, what I understand --
The beast of Revelation 11, like all the other beasts, is a human power.
Obviously, from my study of Revelation 12, the dragon works through these human powers, and we can pin point the human power leading out in each of the dragon's campaigns to disrupt God's plan of redemption from sin.

The beast in Rev.11:7 is a power that operates when the main beast (Rev. 13) papal Rome, has been put out of commission for awhile.
The papal church didn't die, indeed it made some of it's most blasphemies declarations during this time!
The dogma of Papal infallibility was proclaimed in 1870.
The TIMES changed and people moved out from under her "mind-controlling" influence around 1798; her power to inflict penalties changed; her legal power to control by force was removed, but the internal workings of the papacy were not changed, she is only waiting and strengthening herself for the time when she can once more subject the masses to her control.

SO WHAT POWER IS REPRESENTED BY THE SIXTH HEAD (which IS, while the beast is NOT)
According to the words of the prophet, then, a little before the year 1798 some power of Satanic origin and character would rise to make war upon the Bible. And in the land where the testimony of God's two witnesses should thus be silenced, there would be manifest the atheism of the Pharaoh, and the licentiousness of Sodom.
That power demonstrated itself in France during the French Revolution when violent measures were taken against all things Christian, and the Bible.
But that revolution was only a terrible example, a type, a preview, of what the entire world will yet experience as a result of this very same war going on in America right now.

The United States, also had a revolution built on many of the same principles of liberty, equality, etc, But there was one difference, to a large extent, America embraced the principles and morals of Protestantism.
Yet the anti-Bible principles are at work in America; the principles of evolution, agnosticism, higher criticism of the Bible, and general humanistic concepts: The principles of humanism, socialism (a strange emphasis on love and emanating from self, rather than from God) and secularism.

This anti-Genesis apostasy is nearly universal now in America and Western Europe.
Even with JW Telescope disproving the evolutionary theory, the scientists simply scramble to come up with another theory, a new calculation scheme, to uphold their lie on origins.

The goddess of human reason is exalted. Marriage becomes nothing more than a legal contract that can be affirmed or annulled at will, moral obligations disappear, and the only thing that matters is ?IS IT RIGHT FOR ME?? The statement that God created humans "male and female created He them" is scoffed away. Even on mother's day, we see protestors wanting that day hidden because it is "discriminating"????
Religion assumes the same position, believe what you think is right for you ?if God does something for ME, great, but don?t teach ANYTHING that requires ME to obey any God.

Anarchy is seeking to sweep away all law, not only divine, but human as well! Defund the police???

WHY THIS SIXTH HEAD?

1. The papal beast was losing it's power. Both it's political role and it's spiritual role.
Protestantism and the Renaissance had done major damage to the papal

2, The dragon's position, even while still in heaven, was that God's laws are too restrictive, if intelligent created beings could only do what they thought was best for them and not be restricted by God's laws, everyone would gain new heights' of existence.

3. The dragon wants worship that belongs to God alone.

Introducing this new paradigm, this new way of thinking would solve all those problems.
1. It would set the papacy back for a while, so people would forget her intolerant nature. Then as morals were collapsing and the propaganda and publicity of a pious pope was consistently held forth, people would start looking more and more to the papacy to solve the world's problems.
2. Through this sixth head, the dragon's "follow your own agenda" type of society could flourish and erode all those Protestant moral standards.
3. The whole world will be coerced into Sunday worship. Honour the usurpers day, instead of the day of our Creator and God.

Revelation 11:7 depicts a beast that receives but scant attention in Adventist interpretations.

So what have we discovered so far? (Not that everyone agrees, but it seems to be the missing puzzle in understanding all the beasts of Revelation)

This beast in Revelation 11 manifests itself in the old world -- as does the Rev. 13 seven headed leopard like beast.
It comes up at the point in time when the leopard like beast receives a deadly wound in it's 5th (papal Roman) head near the end of the 1260 years. (see Rev. 11: 3,7 and Rev. 13:5,3)

According to Revelation 17 the seven headed beast is at a stage when it is considered as "IS NOT" but yet one of its heads "IS".
"he beast that thou sawest was, and is not;..
"five (heads) are fallen, and one is, the other is not yet come'

Five mountains (political/religious king(doms) fall. They are symbolic "mountains" ruled by powerful leaders or kings. Mountains are symbolic of empires, but also have a strong spiritual connotation. See ( Jer. 51:25, Daniel 2:35, Is. 11:9, Duet 1:20, Amos 4:1, Habakkuk 3:6) Following the pattern already set we see these mountains as:
1 Ancient Babylon,
2 Media Persia,
3 Greek,
4 imperial Rome,
5 Papal Rome --

The question that has plagued many is "what or who is the sixth head"?

We've followed some rules in determining the first five heads:
1. Each head is represented by a single beast or power in earlier prophecies.
2. Heads need to be part of the beast upon which they reside.

Following the first rule, the first five heads are easy to identify on the leopard like beast -- since it has lion mouth, bear feet, leopard body -- obviously linking it to Daniel 7 and the five powers mentioned there.

But we've always stumbled on rule #2.
The reason is that we have called that whole beast the "papal beast" not realizing it actually represents the great METAL MAN of Daniel two.
Now Revelation 13 focuses on this beast at the time it is operating with it's fifth head -- the Roman papal head, yet that fifth head "roman papal head" is not the sum total of that beast.
It is not the papacy in and of itself, for the beast is fatally wounded, but the papacy is still there, though stripped of it's "beast" power to control.
The beast itself corresponds with the "metal man" in Daniel 2.

Revelation 17 however shows this beast AFTER the fifth head, the papal head received it's wound, temporarily incapacitating the beast, but revealing to us that the sixth head "IS" operating while the beast "IS NOT".

Church and State has been ripped apart during the sixth head. Religion is separate from the political power to dominate. It's not until the seventh head will come up for a short spell when the beast is healed and church and state are united again.

So back to the theme of this thread -- what does the sixth head represent?

Is there a single beast somewhere not yet represented in the seven headed beast?

Actually there are TWO!
Some have thought of the American beast, the second beast of Rev. 13, as the sixth head -- but America was separate and independent of the sea beast, rising out of a different land
So it doesn't fit the rule of a head rising on that seven headed beast.


That's the beast of Rev. 11:7 we've been talking about in the previous posts. The one that manifested itself during the French Revolution. A power claiming liberty, equality, enlightnment, and reason, but strongly opposed to the God of Christianity and the Bible.

There's no question amongst historians that the French Revolution changed Europe and impacted the world. But what those changes meant is argued amongst them.
Marxists applaud the fight for equality and developed from the ruins of the Revolution, but they say it was mainly driven by class struggle between the rising bourgeoisie and the aristocracy; thus exchanging one evil for another and freeing Capitalism from feudalism. Capitalism, in their minds is an enemy to equality and they view capitalism as an evil. For them the revolution isn't over till capitalism and capitalistic countries are brought low.

The two single beasts of Revelation rose at about the same time.
Rev. 11:7 and Rev. 13:11.
They both emerged in the latter half of the 1700's. They both held to a "equality, liberty" motto. One brought on a reign of terror, the other provided sanctuary and freedom .

The difference was that for the majority in America, the Bible and Biblical values were generally (though not perfectly) upheld and that nation was blessed. The other threw out the Bible and Biblical values and chaos and terror resulted, not only in the French Revolution but also in all the nations that built on those anti-Bible principles.

Which one is the sixth head of the compost beast?

I believe it is the beast that rose during the French Revolution and continues to impact the world today.

The seventh head -- I think is a merging of power ,
The beast of Revelation 11 is pulling the American beast into it's agenda and line of reasoning. Thinking to save itself the American beast joins hands with the Papacy who itself has accepted many of the principles of the beast of Revelation 11, the rest of Europe joins in (ten horns) and it's all melded together by spiritualism. The seventh head is formed and the beast roars to life.

Into this the author and director of the whole beast manifests himself as an "eighth"
The almost overpowering deception of a magnificent imposter, pretending to be Christ appears to give full support to the seventh head.