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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #195685
04/17/23 11:58 AM
04/17/23 11:58 AM
Karen Y  Online Content OP
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 474
Michigan, US
Rev. 6:1 "And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see."

Notice "the noise of thunder" in this passage as Jesus breaks the first seal. In the Apostolic period, believers thought Jesus was coming soon. So, they proclaimed the gospel like a thundering sound. The message of the hope "went forth conquering, and to conquer" (Rev. 6:2).

Apostle John saw "another mighty angel come down from heaven" (Rev. 10:1), and the angel "cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth" (Rev. 10:4). The imagery of a lion roared parallels the image of the first beast who invited John to "Come and see." The first beast of the four living creatures, which has the feature of a lion, asks to come and see the event unfolding, which went as a noise of thunder that connects to the idea of the second coming of Jesus.

At the first beast's invitation, as "the noise of thunder" like lion's roaring, the rider conquers the world with the message of Jesus' Second Coming. Therefore, the connotation of the seven thunders uttered their voices (Rev. 10:4) references Jesus' Second Coming.

The message of Jesus' Second Coming exploded when Advent Movement revived in 1844. But it was not at God's timeline. The Sabbath truth must be proclaimed by the church before His return. Thus, it was commanded to "Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not" (Rev. 10:4). God raised Seventh-day Adventist Church to carry out the mission of the Advent Movement; "Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings" (Rev. 10:11).

Notice the thunderings by the ark of the testament: Rev. 11:19 "And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

Rev. 11:19 is a threat from the throne of God that will occur at the Second Coming of Jesus.

Rev. 16:17-18 "And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great."

When Jesus finishes His ministry at the heavenly sanctuary, He will cast out the fire of the golden altar into the earth. There will be "voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake" (Rev. 8:5). This snapshot indicates that Jesus' intercession will cease and He will return to the earth with thundering noise when probation is over.

In Ch. 19, there was "the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings" (Rev. 19:6), and the event of the mighty thunderings transpired at the Second Coming of Jesus.

There is another great thundering voice of triumphant praise by 144,000, who were redeemed from the earth (See. Rev. 14:2-3).

In short, the thundering of Revelation connects to Jesus' Second Coming.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #195770
05/04/23 01:49 PM
05/04/23 01:49 PM
Karen Y  Online Content OP
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 474
Michigan, US
The seven eyes in Revelation denote the eyes of the Lord that survey the earth:

"they are the eyes of the Lord, which run to and fro through the whole earth" (Zech. 4:10b).
Eyes are one of the highest organs than any other organs of our body. Our spiritual eyes are an essential organ for our spiritual life?nothing is hidden before the eyes of the Holy Spirit.

The Sabbath is the rod to measure up everything as a spiritual eye: "For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven" (Zech. 4:10a). In other words, the day here denotes the Sabbath that no one should despise as small things. Thus, any religious ritual that performs without understanding the Sabbath is in vain. In a highest sense, the greatest sin against the Ten Commandments is the fourth one--the Sabbath.

The Seal of God is the Sabbath. The dragon and his vicegerent, the beast, force their energy to prevent people from receiving the Seal of God. And those who deny the seal of God must suffer the five months of torment, according to the context of Rev. 9:1-12.

Rev. 9:4-5 "And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man."

Rev. 9:10 "And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months."

The prophetic five months is equivalent to 150 years in the principle of a day for a year. (See Num. 14:34). The movement to proclaim the Sabbath as the Seal of God has been going on since 1844 for more than 150 years, during which the Seventh-Day Adventist Church is called divinely upon the great commission.

Thus, the remnant who keeps the commandments of God will proclaim the Sabbath worldwide to make the standard of God's judgment known while the Lord tarries a little longer.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #195818
05/12/23 11:27 AM
05/12/23 11:27 AM
Karen Y  Online Content OP
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 474
Michigan, US
From a bird's eye view, Sabbath stands out in Revelation, which the thread connects throughout the Scripture.

Six days of creation to the seventh day Sabbath is a relational pattern.
Gen. 2:2-3 "And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made."

God commanded to free enslaved people after six years of service in the seventh year. Ex. 21:2 "If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing." We can see another pattern of relationship here, the sixth to seventh.

Leviticus 23 has seven feast days, making the seventh Day of Atonement feast the final one. See Chapter 23 of Leviticus.

Six thousand years of human history will culminate in one thousand years of Sabbath-keeping in heaven.

God's creation pattern from the beginning testifies to the pinnacle of the eternal Sabbath keeping.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #195833
05/16/23 10:04 AM
05/16/23 10:04 AM
Karen Y  Online Content OP
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 474
Michigan, US
The Sabbath is for the cosmic world.
Isa. 66:22-23 "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord."

The Sabbath commandment exists only in the New Heaven and the New Earth. Other commandments are all related to the sin problem. When Jesus appears at the Second Coming, He is coming apart from the world's sins because He bore the sins of many unto salvation.
Heb. 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation."

To be more precise, covetousness is idolatry, according to Hosea 4:17; "Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone."

Thus, in the eternal age, covetousness and idolatry commandments will not be existed, which are the second and tenth commandments. The sixth, seventh, eighth, and ninth commandments also won't be lived since all are in a brotherhood.

In short, the fifth through tenth commandments will be disappeared in the New Heaven and the New Earth.

Keeping the Sabbath Holy includes the first, second, and third commandments.

It is such a serious thing of the Sabbath of God. Thus, Satan attacks the Sabbath with the Mark of the Beast.

Things revolve around the truth of the Sabbath and the coming age. The most important record of the Ten Commandments is the Sabbath, which we must remember to keep holy.

Which is more critical, written recording or remembering? I remember a significant event more vividly than a written record.

God commanded us to "remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy(Exd. 20:8)." We are to remember every day for the approaching Sabbath weekly. God will sanctify us on the Sabbath day for His name's sake to those who remember the Sabbath and prepare for the special holy day.

Exo. 20:11 "For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

When one-tenth of income is returned as the tithe to the Lord, the nine-tenth are assured and protected. In other words, keeping the tenth commandment, "thou shall not covet," intended to eliminate the covetous heart, which in and of itself includes the fifth through ninth commandments.

So is the principle that the fourth commandment, which includes the first through third commandments.

The Sabbath is so significant in terms of the cosmic world and eternally.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #195834
05/16/23 06:55 PM
05/16/23 06:55 PM
dedication  Online Content
Global Moderator
Supporting Member 2022

5500+ Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,289

Originally Posted by Karen Y
Thus, in the eternal age, covetousness and idolatry commandments will not be existed, which are the second and tenth commandments. The sixth, seventh, eighth, and ninth commandments also won't be lived since all are in a brotherhood.
In short, the fifth through tenth commandments will be disappeared in the New Heaven and the New Earth.

God's law does not disappear EVER.
Not at the cross. Not at the second coming, Not in the new earth,

God's law is part of His very character!
It's the foundation of His throne.

Why would anyone suggest they disappear?
That was Satan's big thing from the beginning thinking angels (and people) were good enough and wise enough to not to need any commandments.

The only difference in the new earth will be that everyone will keep all the commandments because God's law has become part of their characters as well.

They will not want any other gods, because they love and worship God, their Creator, Savior, Redeemer and Best Friend.

They won't lie, steal, covet, abuse trust, Kill, or show disrespect to anyone.
Not because the laws are done away with, but because they hate sin and those laws are written in their hearts, they are God's law of love for others. They WANT to live that way! They want to live in God's kingdom of love!

The laws are all still there!
But then they are statements of fact.
Instead of "thou shalt not" it is "you will not because that's not how you want to live" --
The saved won't lie, steal, kill, etc. they will be keeping God's law from their hearts, God's law has become part of their character.
This doesn't happen by some transformation at the second coming, that's something we are to learn right now. God promised "I will write my laws in your hearts and minds."

And yes, even the Sabbath commandment --
Everyone will be keeping it! Because everyone wants to keep it!

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: dedication] #195835
05/16/23 08:35 PM
05/16/23 08:35 PM
Karen Y  Online Content OP
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 474
Michigan, US
Thanks, Dedication, for your clarification. I don't mean to say disappear in a sense of devoid God's perfect law or because the laws are done away with.
The holy saints in heaven won't be committing any sins against the Ten Commandments and happy to keep all the laws eternally. The Sabbath is the prominent law which will perpetually exist. The other laws shall not find anyone who would commit against it. In that sense, I meant "disappeared."

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #195895
06/04/23 10:39 AM
06/04/23 10:39 AM
Karen Y  Online Content OP
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 474
Michigan, US
The Old Testament time = 4000 years, and the New Testament time = 2000 years. 1000 years in heaven. Total 7000 years.

4000 + 2000 + 1000 = 7000 years.

6000 years + 1000 years = 7000 years

The ratio is 6:1.

Six days of creation : seventh day Sabbath (6:1 ratio).

What shall we be doing during the one thousand years in heaven?

Two things will happen:
1) reviewing the judgment of God (Rev. 20:4)
2) be equipped as kings and priests (Rev. 20:6)

During the millennium, we shall learn the mystery of creation and redemption; then will be fully qualified to be kings and priests in the kingdom of God.

Then, we shall be dispersed to the twelve divisions of the cosmic world to reign the kingdoms of our inheritance (Matt. 19:28 and Job 38:32).

We shall gather together on every "Sabbath to Sabbath" in the earth, and to worship God (Rev. 21:24, 26 and Isa. 66:23).

The kings who are placed in the twelve divisions (Mazzaroth) of heaven will be countless as the stars in heaven.

By the blood of Christ, we are made kings and priests (Rev. 1:5-6 and Rev. 5:9-10).

Heb. 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame,
and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God."

Rom. 8:18 " For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us."

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #196332
08/25/23 12:59 PM
08/25/23 12:59 PM
Karen Y  Online Content OP
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 474
Michigan, US

Hab. 2:2 "And the Lord answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it."

Rev. 19 = the Second Coming of Jesus.
Rev. 6-7 = the work of Sealing.

Which event comes first?

Ch. 19:1-2 judged the great whore and avenged the blood of his servants "Alleluia"!
Ch. 19:3 "her smoke rose up for ever and ever" "Alleluia"!
Ch. 19:4-5 from the throne, "saying, Praise our God" "Alleluia"!
Ch. 19:6-9 "the marriage of the Lamb is come" "Alleluia"!
Ch. 19:10 "worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." EG White
Ch. 19:11-16 "a vesture dipped in blood," the white horse rider(Jesus) and the armies(angels) followed = the Second Coming of Jesus "King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords."
Ch. 19:17-18 "standing in the sun" feast of the birds; Matt. 24:28 "the eagles be gathered" where "the carcase is"
Ch. 19:19-20 the beast and the false prophet cast into the lake of fire = the first death
Ch. 19:21 " all the fowls were filled with their flesh." = torment of the cross = the feast of birds

The event of the Second Coming is sandwiched between the feast of bride and the feast of birds.

Jesus breaks each seal on the seven-sealed book = Ch. 6-7 (the work of Sealing)

Ch. 6:1-2 first beast = lion; "conquering, and to conquer"; parallels with Ephesus church era
Ch. 6:3-4 2nd beast = ox; great sword; sacrificial offering; Smyrna church era; persecuted period
Ch. 6:5-6 3rd beast = men; compromise period; Balaam; Nicolaitanes
Ch. 6:7-8 4th beast = eagle; power on 1/4 earth; Dark Ages; spirit of Jezebel; Thyatira church
Ch. 6:9-11 under the altar; martyrs' cry for avenge; Rev. 18:20 shall be avenged.
Ch. 6:12-17 "mountains and rocks, Fall on us" = the event of Second Coming

The final sealing on 144,000

Ch. 7:1-3 the holding of the wind = plagues; the four angels are the four living creatures; Rev. 15:7
Ch. 7:4-8 literal number of 144,000; "I heard the number of them which were sealed" v. 4
Ch. 7:9-10 the great multitude = resurrected saints who hold palm branches and from many nations
Ch. 7:11-12 the heavenly angels; "amen...amen"!
Ch. 7:13-17 experience Jacob's trouble and hold harp, not palm branch = 144,000; they experience hunger, thirst and heat. v.16

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #196540
09/12/23 11:50 AM
09/12/23 11:50 AM
Karen Y  Online Content OP
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 474
Michigan, US
We find the same imagery of the Second coming event in Rev. 19 and 6.

An angel cries out to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, "Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God" (19:17).

The meat for the fowls is "the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great" (19:18).

The above imagery parallels with Rev. 6:12:17, describing the Second Coming of Jesus. The wicked who cries out are "the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains" (6:15).

Notice the mighty men of 19:18 moved up its rank compared to 6:15. The 'mighty men' symbolize its indication of sports. As the day of the Lord approaches, the general population becomes more passionate and fanatic in sports entertainment.

Another clear indication is that if not sealed (Ch. 6), no one can meet the Lord, as the theme of Ch. 19 reveals. In other words, there is a relevant connection between Ch. 6 and 19.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #196609
8 hours ago
8 hours ago
Karen Y  Online Content OP
Active Member 2023

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 474
Michigan, US
Satan's best offer of his throne:

Rev. 13:2 "...and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat [throne], and great authority"

Jesus' best offer of His throne:

Rev. 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne"

The four beasts are closest to the throne of God and positioned in higher rank than the angels. However, they do not sit on the throne, neither the angels.

The unfallen beings of heaven gathered around the concentric place of the throne, but they also do not sit on the throne. See Rev. 5:13 and Job 38:32.

We find no thrones for these three groups: the four beasts, the angels and unfallen beings (= sons of God. See Job.1:6, 38:7 and Rev. 5:13).

24 Elders sit on the throne of God, which clearly indicate that they are the redeemed saints from the earth.

1 Pet. 2:9 "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood [kingly priesthood], an holy nation [throne], a peculiar people..."

The heaven's ranks have seven teams:

1) the throne of God (Trinity of Godheads)
2) the four beasts
3) the 24 Elders-------------------------------
4) 144,000 l - these 3 teams are the redeemed saints (#3, 4, 5).
5) the Great Multitude-----------------------
6) the angels
7) the unfallen beings

Jesus' shedding of His blood made the throne possible for the saints to occupy and rule with Christ Jesus in the eternity kingdom of God (See Rev. 1:5-6 and Rev. 5:9-10).
The redeemed shall learn and be equipped to be kings and priests during the millennium (See Rev 20:4-6).
Then, the saints shall inherit the kingdoms as rewards and shall reign for ever and ever (See Rev. 22:5).

Last edited by Karen Y; 8 hours ago.
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