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Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [Re: dedication] #198474
02/15/25 01:25 AM
02/15/25 01:25 AM
dedication  Online Content OP
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Back to the fifth trumpet.
There's a lot of information in the fifth trumpet.
The historical focus of this trumpet is on the Byzantine Empire and the Greek Orthodox Church which had it's head quarters in Constantinople. Byzantine Constantinople was home to a strong Christian religion, which literally could date its Christianity back to the apostles. Constantinople's status as the capital of a the Byzantine empire, dates back to Constantine.


1052 AD The big schism when eastern church separated from the Roman Catholic Church
1204 AD the fourth crusade from Europe which ended up conquering and ransacking Constantinople bringing great confusion to the Byzantine Empire.
1261 AD Michael VIII of Nicaea was able to restore the shattered empire back into Byzantine hands.
and start rebuilding some of its power. Providence was giving them a "second chance".

1299 AD Osman I, founded the House of Osman, (Ottoman) and began building what was to become the mighty Ottoman Empire. The Turks now had a "king" over them and the 150 years began.

1449 AD The last Byzantine Emperor asked the Turks to grant him permission to reign. Virtually signing over the authority of the Empire to the Turks. Thus marking the end of the 150 years the Byzantine Empire had been given to return to Christ.
1454 AD The Ottoman's conquered Constantinople, made the city their capital and the surviving Orthodox Christians fled north to Russia or to the Baltic lands.

THE LOCUSTS
in the Fifth Trumpet John SEES these locusts who destroy the Byzantine Empire, and he describes them by saying -- they looked LIKE several different things.


unto them (the locusts) was given power,
as the scorpions of the earth
have power.
These locusts are not scorpions, but they are given power similar to the power of scorpions.
From where did they receive this power?


Of Israel it is stated: ?He led them through the "great and terrible wilderness, wherein were fiery serpents, and scorpions, and drought" (Deuteronomy 8:15) It was only when they grumbled and complained against God, that God removed His protection and those scorpions bit with deadly results.

The only salvation against a scorpion bite, is looking to Christ and his sacrifice. (See John 3:14-15) ?As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness even so much the Son of Man be lifted up that whoever believe in Him should not perish but have eternal life.?
Scorpions represent satan?s power. But God?s power is far greater.


Terrible tails,

tails like unto scorpions,
and there were stings in their tails
What is the meaning of having power in their TAIL?
A tail is something that follows. It?s a back part. It's not the first thing that presents itself.
In Revelation 12:4, the dragon?s tail sweeps 1/3 of the stars into his ranks.

Isaiah links the tail, to falsehood or deception.
The head is the elder and honorable man,
And the prophet who teaches falsehood is the tail.
Isaiah 9:15

Whether one has "power" in their head (above) or tail (beneath), seems to have something to do with keeping God's commandments.


The Lord will make you the head and not the tail, and you will be above, and you will not be underneath, if you listen to the commandments of the Lord your God Duet. 28:13

like unto horses prepared
for battle

The sound of chariots
of many horses
running to battle
Obviously depicting a lot of conflict and war.
Horses prepared for battle
Chariots
running to battle.
All symbolic (as well as literal) of battle, whether spiritual or physical.

had breastplates,
as it were
breastplates of iron;

A breastplate protects the heart and lungs. God?s people wear the breastplate of righteousness (Christ?s righteousness) Ep, 6:14.

But these Iron breastplates sound like war. A strong, resilient, metal. This gives this swarm of locusts an impenetrable and strong appearance. They mean business.

and on their heads
as it were crowns
(victory crowns) like gold,
They wore something that looked like victory crowns on their heads. It looked like those crowns were made of gold. But looks can be deceiving.

True victory crowns are crowns of salvation, Ep. 6:17 which we can claim by faith. They are made of pure gold tried in fire.

They had human faces
Human faces signify intelligence, humanity, a sense of honesty.
This is where it gets interesting -- they have human faces that one can relate to, dialogue with, but watch out! The TAIL, "the prophet that teaches falsehood is the tail" Is.9:15. Their power was in deceit? Presenting a "good human face" but having a stinging, terrible tail that causes agony and pain?
Hair like women Hair length often had cultural implication.
Teeth like a lion Preying instead of praying.

Are the locusts the Turkish armies, or are the locusts the evil powers influencing the Turkish armies in their program of conquest and subjection? Both the literal and the supernatural seem intertwined. And were those same evil powers of deception working on the minds and hearts of the Christians inside that city.

It was a "last call" for Byzantine Christians before their cities was given to the conquering Ottomans.
Judgment time was bearing down on them. As the Ottoman's came closer and closer to the final conquest, the Christians could have been in repentance and sublication before the Lord. He saved Ninevah, He could have saved them!

The locusts had no power to hurt those who had the seal of God. God's all-powerful, distinguishing grace will keep his faithful people from total and final apostacy.
It wasn't just the human armies attacking them. God could have easily stopped them. Evil forces were at work, working through human armies, to cause distress, but they were also working on people's hearts to led them away from Christ and His protecting, loving care.

We also see the implications that the human war dress isn't what we need, we need the armor outlined in Ephesians 6:13-18.

The very fact these trumpets run parallel with Christ's heavenly ministry (Rev. 8:2-5), indicates that God was working mightily to reach these Orthodox Christians in those 150 years prior to the fall of their Capital city.

The situation back then isn't that different from today. We are heading for the last judgment to fall as well.

Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [Re: dedication] #198497
02/26/25 04:26 PM
02/26/25 04:26 PM
dedication  Online Content OP
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The 1st trumpet -- early Christianity.
The gospel went first to the Jewish nation. It was the nucleus, the headquarters, building on the old testament promises which all pointed to the Messiah. Christianity sprung up as thousands in that nation believed, and it was believers from that nation that took the message to the world.
But the Jewish nation itself refused to come to Jesus and the hope and life He offered.
The first trumpet sets in record the consequences of that choice.

The 2nd trumpet -- Christianity merges with Rome.
313 AD, The Roman Emperors begin to decree church policies and play a strong hand in it's beliefs, making Christianity a state religion. Persecutions moved from being against the church, to being within the church. Western Rome "the great mountain" that rose from the "sea" of mankind, in which Christianity had put their trust, like a great burning mountain plunges back into the "sea" of humanity, causing great confusion and destruction.

3rd and 4th trumpet -- papacy grows to great power (about 500 - 1300)
Starts to poison the waters of life, eclipsing the gospel, adding bitterness with it's enforcement of its dogmas, , ending in "dark ages".

5th trumpet -- the eastern church 1300 -1449

Though they separated (great schism) from the papal led church, they clung to much of its teachings, idols, and intolerance. Thus they did not have the protection against the armies around them, nor against armies from Rome, nor against the 150 years of swarming Turkish armies . They, like Jerusalem, had their capital city destroyed, and were scattered.

6th trumpet --The fall (wounding) of the papal power, and ending Turkish power -- 1449 - 1840.

7th trumpet -- finishing the mystery. 1840's to the final victory.



Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [Re: dedication] #198505
02/27/25 12:50 PM
02/27/25 12:50 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

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This obviously means that the 7th Trumpet has also already sounded and we are in the time of the 7th Trumpet.

Has the "finishing of the mystery" become known to us yet?

If so, then what is "the mystery" that has become known?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [Re: Daryl] #198509
02/27/25 06:45 PM
02/27/25 06:45 PM
dedication  Online Content OP
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Originally Posted by Daryl
This obviously means that the 7th Trumpet has also already sounded and we are in the time of the 7th Trumpet.

Has the "finishing of the mystery" become known to us yet?

If so, then what is "the mystery" that has become known?


The seventh trumpet began to sound in 1844. Yes we are living in the time of the 7th trumpet -- it is still sounding. Revelation 11:19 -- we know when this announcement was first made .
Quote
The temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of His testament." Revelation 11:19. The ark of God's testament is in the holy of holies, the second apartment of the sanctuary. In the ministration of the earthly tabernacle, which served "unto the example and shadow of heavenly things," this apartment was opened only upon the great Day of Atonement for the cleansing of the sanctuary. Therefore the announcement that the temple of God was opened in heaven and the ark of His testament was seen points to the opening of the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary in 1844 as Christ entered there to perform the closing work of the atonement. Great Controversy page 434


The mystery is " the mystery of salvation"

Quote
Instead of the prophecy of Daniel 8:14 referring to the purifying of the earth, it was now plain that it pointed to the closing work of our High Priest in heaven, the finishing of the atonement, and the preparing of the people to abide the day of His coming. {CET 56.3} {1T 58}


The mystery of God, or work of salvation for sinful men, is being finished in the days of the voice of the seventh angel. (Rev. 10:7) It's during this time when the three angels' messages are proclaimed throughout the earth. Notice, though people thought it meant Christ appearing right then, they were told they needed to prophesy again. (10:11)
The third angel warns of terrible things to come upon those who worship the beast. The call is to worship the Creator (Rev. 14:7}, keep His commandments {14:12}, have the faith of Jesus (14:12) and follow Him where ever He leads (14:4).
This is all part of the 7th trumpet!

The seventh trumpet covers a period of time which is occupied in this finishing of the mystery of God. First the issues must be proclaimed, the truth brought forth. The three angels message must be given to everyone who will listen, so they may escape the vials of the wrath of God which are predicted in the third angel's message (14:9-11)
ALSO in this period of the 7th trumpet, the Saviour completes his work in the Most Holy Place in the Sanctuary in heaven. "The time has come for judging the dead" (Rev. 11:18) and placing every name of each person clothed in His robe of righteousness, permanently into the book of LIFE. (Rev. 3:5)
When this is accomplished, the vials of the wrath of God will poured out and Jesus will come.




Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [Re: dedication] #198510
02/27/25 07:12 PM
02/27/25 07:12 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

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Revelation 10:7 KJV says, "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

My understanding was that "the mystery of God" was the mystery of time.

Have you ever thought about it that way?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [Re: dedication] #198511
02/28/25 03:11 AM
02/28/25 03:11 AM
dedication  Online Content OP
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In Rev. 10 it is speaking of time in the verse just before. -- The angel swore by Him who lives forever and ever, the Creator of all things, that there should be time (delay) no longer, but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished.

It does answer some of the "how long" questions, assuring us we are very near the end. But I tend to think it goes deeper than that.

Let's look in scripture and see what the Bible refers to as the Mystery of God.
And there it seems rather clear that the "Mystery of God" is the mystery of salvation, of God's awesome plan to redeem mankind.

Col. 2:2 the riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

Mark 4:4 :11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God:

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, (speaking of grafting Gentile branches into the olive tree, as well as grafting believing Jews back in, too)

Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

1 Cor. 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

1 Cor. 15:51-57 The mystery of the resurrection.. corruptible changing into incorruption.. death swallowed up in victory....God, which gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ

Eph. 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will,...that in the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:

Eph. 3:9,11 And to make all see the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world has been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:...According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Eph. 6:19 make known the mystery of the gospel,

Col. 1:26 The mystery which has been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
1:27 God would make known the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

1 Tim. 3:16 great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.






Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [Re: dedication] #198512
02/28/25 05:14 PM
02/28/25 05:14 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

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There is definitely much about the "mystery of God" in the Scriptures, however, what does it mean in Revelation 10:17 where it says that "the mystery of God should be finished"?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [Re: dedication] #198516
03/01/25 12:50 AM
03/01/25 12:50 AM
dedication  Online Content OP
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Don't have any other answer - it just seems plain to me from Bible and Spirit if Prophecy that starting in 1844 Christ would begin and bring to conclusion all the "finishing" work relating to salvation.
The day of atonement -- which includes the investigative judgement, the last warning message of the three angels, the plagues -- and the second coming.
The mystery of God WOULD (NKJ) be finished during the seventh trumpet.

The grand mystery isn't "many" different things, it is one awesome plan to redeem the fallen race and end sin forever. And yes, we are in the "finishing" time.

The phrase written in the KJV "should be finished" is actually just one Greek word in the original,

G5055 "teleo;" to finish, accomplish, to perform the last acts which completes a process, to accomplish bringing to an end, fulfil, to carry out what was required for completion.


Actually the word "should" is not in the Greek. During the 7th trumpet the plan of salvation for the human race WILL be finished, the last preparatory work done, all the promises will be fulfilled as laid out in the everlasting covenant.

The seventh trumpet brings the world to the "finishing" time. Just like a carpenter builds a beautiful cabinet but it still needs the last work -- the finishing work -- careful sanding, smoothing, varnishing, --

Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [Re: dedication] #198517
03/01/25 05:50 PM
03/01/25 05:50 PM
Daryl  Online Canadian

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Let's go back a couple of verses and then add verse 7 to verses 5 and 6.

Revelation 10:5-6 KJV says, "And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, 6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:"

What is this "there should be time no longer" referring to?


In His Love, Mercy & Grace,

Daryl smile

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

http://www.christians-discuss.com/forum/index.php
Re: Value of Revelation's Historicist Trumpets [Re: dedication] #198523
03/03/25 04:14 AM
03/03/25 04:14 AM
dedication  Online Content OP
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We actually have several threads dealing with timelines. Within the understanding of the historicist interpretations -- Time lines, prophetic time periods, ended in 1844. No more time lines after 1844.
. 1844 is when the seventh trumpet began. And the finishing work of the atonement began. The seventh trumpet has no time lines, we are in the "time of the end" watch and pray for you know not when the Lord will come.

That is, the people will not have another message upon definite time. After this period of time, reaching from 1842 to 1844, there can be no definite tracing of the prophetic time. The longest reckoning reaches to the autumn of 1844. {CTr 344.5} "
While there is still time, Probation is still open, our clocks are still ticking, things have not yet ended, Christ is still interceding in the heavenly sanctuary, yet there is no more reckoning of time. We don't know when the mystery of God will be finished, all we know it WILL be finished very soon and Jesus will come. And this is the point of great hope and importance -- it hasn't finished yet, but it will very soon.


But in our studies on this thread
we haven't yet covered the sixth trumpet.

The sixth trumpet still runs within the timelines, beginning around 1499.
And it ends shortly before the seventh trumpet gives it's
"time of the dead that they should be judged" and the discovery that God's law is still located in God's sanctuary in heaven, and is still God's law, complete with the fourth commandment, message.

Under the sixth trumpet, the world changes --
There are the turkish armies harrassing the European, papal world (keeping the papacy busy)
We have the renaissance changing the way people think
We have the reformation
There's the French Revolution
There's the toppling of monarchies
There's a whole revolutionary atmosphere
The papacy receives a deadly wound, taking away it's ability to force nations to accept it's dogmas.
on the one hand, there is explosion of searching for truth, but, with fury
a counter power from beneath has swept the world away from truth



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