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Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #198633
03/25/25 09:46 PM
03/25/25 09:46 PM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2025

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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 546
Michigan, US




NotebookLM is a great resource for simplifying complex concepts and making them easier for others to understand.

Here is another dialog about the longest passages from each pillar of the seven churches, seals, trumpets and plagues.

https://notebooklm.google.com/notebook/af6b2ad4-75ed-48b2-ba79-14387be26db9/audio

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #198671
04/04/25 07:02 PM
04/04/25 07:02 PM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2025

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 546
Michigan, US
Let's analyze the Book of Revelation by focusing on the length of specific passages, particularly those with the most words among its four main themes: the churches, the seals, the trumpets, and the plagues. To facilitate understanding, we will examine these themes in the following order: plagues, seals, churches, and trumpets. The longer passages, arranged in this order, may reveal significant events related to the end times.

**The Sixth Plague**

The Sixth Plague in the fourth pillar stands out due to its significant length, illustrating its importance. This passage identifies a global ecumenical movement that attempts to delay the second coming of Jesus. It depicts three unclean spirits, often symbolized by frogs in the book of Revelation, actively working against those who uphold God's commands within this worldwide movement. The emphasis on widespread opposition and resistance to true worship reveals a crucial spiritual battle. The ecumenical effort is not just resistance; it boldly shapes religious discourse, emphasizing the need for vigilance and sincere worship.

? The Sixth Seal
The Sixth Seal is closely linked to the Sixth Plague, as both focus on cataclysmic events related to Jesus's return. Notably, the Sixth Seal has the highest word count among the seals, emphasizing these dramatic end-time events. This correlation suggests that the Sixth Plague sets the stage for the visible manifestations of Jesus's return depicted in the Sixth Seal.
The Sixth Plague highlights the spiritual conditions leading up to Jesus's second coming, particularly the opposition to His followers and movements attempting to delay His return, which are crucial to understanding the events of the Sixth Seal.

? The Church of Thyatira
Among the churches mentioned, Thyatira contains the most extensive text. It emphasizes the spirit of Jezebel, an Old Testament figure known for introducing false worship in Israel. These texts suggest that this spirit represents the fundamental issue that led to widespread opposition to the true worship of God, a theme that is highlighted in the book of Revelation.

? The Fifth Trumpet
The Fifth Trumpet passage is noteworthy for its length, highlighting the papacy as a significant adversary against God's final sealing work. It describes a fallen star causing destruction and aiming to prevent people from receiving the seal of God, particularly targeting Sabbath observance. This passage underscores the intense spiritual conflict surrounding the final message for the end times.

Overall, the longest passages in Revelation highlight themes of global opposition, cataclysmic events, and deviation from true worship. They collectively represent the climax of the Great Controversy, emphasizing the importance of discernment and faithfulness in our present day.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #198675
04/06/25 09:30 PM
04/06/25 09:30 PM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2025

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 546
Michigan, US


This is about the seven trumpets' introduction snapshot by NotebookLM when I fed my manuscript.


https://notebooklm.google.com/notebook/d2d7672a-6c90-47a6-a248-4d12a71908c9/audio

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #198830
06/14/25 08:27 AM
06/14/25 08:27 AM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2025

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 546
Michigan, US
What Is the Seventh Trumpet?

Revelation 11:15?says:
?The seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, ?The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign forever and ever.??

This trumpet announces the?Second Coming of Christ?and the?consummation of God?s kingdom.

Global Proclamation Before the End
The?seven thunders?symbolize the?announcement of Christ?s return, a message that will be proclaimed to the whole world.
This connects with the global proclamation of the?Sabbath truth, a core message of the?Advent Movement.

Prophetic Timing
In?Revelation 10:7, the ?days? of the seventh angel?s voice are understood?symbolically as years.
The?Advent Movement, led by the?Seventh-day Adventist Church, has been active for over?150 years, aligning with this prophetic period.

Five Months of Torment?
Revelation 9:5, 10?refers to ?five months? of torment ? understood symbolically as a time of spiritual anguish:
??their torment was as the torment of a scorpion??
This torment falls on?those who reject the Sabbath truth, not on those sealed by God (Rev. 9:4).

The Message Before the Thunder
Before the mystery of the seven thunders is fulfilled, there must be a?worldwide proclamation?of God as Creator ? a theme echoed in the?Fourth Commandment.
Revelation 10:6:
??that there should be time no longer.?
This signals the?close of prophetic time, emphasizing that the?final message is now urgent.

In Summary
The?seven thunders?symbolize a?complete and powerful announcement?? the?Second Coming of Christ.
This event is closely linked to:
The?seventh trumpet
The?final global proclamation of truth, especially the?Sabbath
The?close of prophetic time
The voice of the seven thunders will echo a message that finishes God's mystery ? and prepares the world for Christ's return.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #198853
06/26/25 11:05 AM
06/26/25 11:05 AM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2025

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 546
Michigan, US
What Is the Seventh Trumpet?

Revelation 11:15?says:

The seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, ?The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign forever and ever.
This trumpet announces the?Second Coming of Christ?and the?consummation of God?s kingdom.

Global Proclamation Before the End

The seven thunders symbolize the announcement of Christ's return, a message that will be proclaimed to the whole world.
This connects with the global proclamation of the Sabbath truth, which the Advent Movement brought.

Prophetic Timing

In Revelation 10:7, the days of the seventh angel's voice are understood symbolically as years.
The Advent Movement continued to lead by the Seventh-day Adventist Church, which has been active for over 150 years, aligning with this prophetic period.

Five Months of Torment
Revelation 9:5, 10 refer to five months of torment understood symbolically as a time of spiritual anguish:
their torment was as the torment of a scorpion.
This torment falls on those who reject the Sabbath truth, not on those sealed by God (Rev. 9:4).

The Message Before the Thunder

Before the mystery of the seven thunders is fulfilled, there must be a worldwide proclamation the Creator God which the theme echoed in the Fourth Commandment.
Revelation 10:6:
that there should be time no longer.
This signals the close of prophetic time, emphasizing that the final message is now urgent.

In Summary
The seven thunders symbolize a complete and powerful announcement - the Second Coming of Christ.
This event is closely linked to:
The seventh trumpet
The final global proclamation of the Sabbath
The close of probation
The voice of the seven thunders will echo a message that finishes God's mystery and prepares the world for Christ's return.

The mighty angel descends from heaven at the rise of the Advent Movement, which is significantly marked by the Millerite movement, as indicated by the seven thunders. This angel emphasizes the importance of proclaiming the truth about the Sabbath before the Second Coming of Jesus.

The standard for God's judgment is the Law of God. The judgment hour began in 1844, as referenced in Daniel 8:14. However, the truth about the Sabbath had been obscured for centuries by the influence of the Papacy. Jesus cannot and will not return until "prophecy again speaks before many peoples, nations, tongues, and kings," as stated in Revelation 10:11.

Amos 3:7 states, "Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but He revealeth His secret unto His servants the prophets."

Jesus will judge the world as the Sabbath proclamation goes worldwide. Listen carefully to the seventh trumpet: "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign forever and ever" (Revelation 11:15).

"But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He hath declared to His servants the prophets" (Revelation 10:7).

Let the seven trumpets sound loudly and clearly! We have only a short time left before Jesus returns.

Last edited by Karen Y; 06/26/25 11:15 AM.
Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #198859
06/26/25 11:29 PM
06/26/25 11:29 PM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2025

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 546
Michigan, US
The Seven Trumpets: A Call to Clarity and Conviction

The seven trumpets of Revelation are not merely echoes of past historical events?they are divine announcements, sounding messages from heaven to a world on the edge of eternity.

Just as in 1 Corinthians 14:8?

?For if the trumpet gives an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself for battle???
God?s last-day people are called to sound the trumpet clearly, boldly, and with understanding. A muddled message cannot prepare anyone for the spiritual battle that is unfolding. The trumpet must not be vague. It must be distinct.
Revelation presents seven trumpet blasts, each declared by an angel?each one announcing something critical, something urgent, something divine:

The first angel sounded?
The second angel sounded?
The third angel sounded?
The fourth angel sounded?
The fifth angel sounded?
The sixth angel sounded?
The seventh angel sounded?
?And there were great voices in heaven, saying,
?The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ,
and He shall reign forever and ever.?? (Revelation 11:15)
These trumpet blasts are not history lessons. They are living messages, sounding now to awaken a sleeping world to the reality of judgment, mercy, and the soon return of Christ. They speak to the spiritual condition of the world, the urgency of the hour, and the nearness of the close of probation.

Each trumpet is a warning, a summons, and a call to action. Together, they are a divine proclamation?sounding the approach of the Jubilee, when Christ will restore all things, liberate His people, and bring judgment to the rebellious.

So the question must be asked:
Do you understand what each trumpet means?
Can you sound the trumpet with certainty?
Can you give a clear message?so distinct that others are moved to prepare?

The enemy makes war with the saints (Revelation 12:17), but the Head of the Church, Jesus Christ, has already given us the perfect message. He has sounded the warning through the seven trumpets. It is now our task to make that message known?with clarity, with courage, and without confusion.

The trumpets are sounding.
The time is urgent.
The message must be clear.

Will you sound the trumpet with a certain sound?

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #198892
07/07/25 09:32 AM
07/07/25 09:32 AM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2025

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 546
Michigan, US

The Seven Trumpets: Sounding the Mystery of God

In the divine rhythm of Scripture, the number seven speaks of perfection, completeness, and fulfillment.
So it is with the seven trumpets of Revelation?not isolated blasts tied to scattered moments in history,
but a unified, perfect message from the throne of heaven. These trumpets are God's warning, His call,
and His announcement of the climactic event of all prophecy: the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 10:7 gives us the key:

"But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound,
the mystery of God should be finished, as He hath declared to His servants the prophets."

What is this mystery of God? It is the return of Christ?the glorious appearing of the Savior, wrapped in divine majesty,
which no man knows the day or the hour of (Matthew 24:36). His coming is a mystery to humanity,
because we are bound by time, by limited knowledge, and by earthly perspective.

But to heaven, His return is not a mystery. Heaven is not bound by time as we are.
In the eternal realm, God's purposes are already seen in completion.
The seven trumpets come not from speculation, but from the certainty of heaven's perspective.

Heaven has not remained silent.
Revelation 8:13 proclaims:

?Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels,
which are yet to sound!?

This striking phrase?"the voices of the trumpet"?reveals a powerful truth:
It is not merely what happens, but what is spoken that matters.
The trumpets are not just events; they are heaven?s voice breaking into human history,
calling the world to repentance, to readiness, and to reverence before the great and dreadful day of the Lord.

If these trumpets are misunderstood or silenced?if they are reduced to historical trivia or neglected altogether?then
the mystery of God will remain unfinished. The Second Coming will remain delayed in the hearts of people unprepared.

So how should we understand them?

Not through the narrow lens of dispensational timelines, but through the spiritual perspective of heaven.
The seven trumpets must be seen as a living message, sounded while Jesus still intercedes for us in the heavenly sanctuary.
They are the final warning, the last call, the divine trumpet blasts preparing the way for the return of the King.

This is not the time for silence. This is the time to sound the trumpets with certainty?to proclaim the mystery of God,
so that Christ?s return will be fulfilled in power, in glory, and in perfect timing.

Let us lift our voices and echo heaven?s call:

?Behold, He comes!?

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #198910
07/12/25 10:41 PM
07/12/25 10:41 PM
K
Karen Y  Offline OP
SDA
Active Member 2025

Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 546
Michigan, US
The Seven Trumpets and Seven Plagues: A Prophetic Parallel

There are truths in Scripture that can't be fully understood until their counterparts are considered together. This principle is particularly significant for interpreting the seven trumpets of Revelation. Each trumpet produces a unique sound, inviting us to grasp its meaning; however, complete understanding often comes when we recognize its prophetic counterpart.

In the case of the seven trumpets, their counterparts are found in the seven last plagues (also known as the seven bowls of wrath). When these two sequences are read side by side, striking parallels emerge.

For example, consider the first trumpet in relation to the first plague:
Revelation 8:7 (First Trumpet):

"The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up."
Revelation 16:2 (First Plague):

"And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image."

Notice that both judgments fall "upon the earth." This is no coincidence; it reveals a thematic and symbolic connection. Furthermore, consider the symbols used:

The trees and grass in Revelation 8:7 represent people.
"He shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water" (Psalm 1:3)
"Surely the people is grass." (Isaiah 40:7)

This symbolic language indicates that those who have aligned with the beast?those who bear the mark of the beast?are the ones being judged in both scenarios. In the trumpet judgment, they are burned up, while in the plague judgment, they suffer from a grievous sore. These represent different expressions of the same divine punishment.

A Method of Interpretation

This interpretation does not require forced or speculative readings. It aligns with the biblical principle of:

"Line upon line, precept upon precept; here a little, and there a little" (Isaiah 28:10)

When we study prophecy by comparing Scripture with Scripture, the meaning becomes much clearer. The seven trumpets and the seven plagues are not random or disconnected; they are thematically and spiritually aligned, revealing God's unfolding judgment and call to repentance in the last days.

Be Ready
These messages are particularly relevant for our generation. As we witness the fulfillment of prophecy and observe the world changing rapidly, we must remain watchful, spiritually discerning, and prepared for the imminent return of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #198912
07/13/25 04:18 AM
07/13/25 04:18 AM
dedication  Online Content
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Don't all the trumpets and plagues, churches and seals, etc. deal with people and events upon the earth?
How does that one word "earth" make the first trumpet and first plague the same?

Originally Posted by Karen Y
For example, consider the first trumpet in relation to the first plague:
Revelation 8:7 (First Trumpet) quoted:
Revelation 16:2 (First Plague):quoted
Notice that both judgments fall "upon the earth.


Yes, both are about our earth. As are all of the seven plagues. But that doesn't make them the same.

Revelation 16:1 A loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels'" Go, pour out the seven bowls of God's wrath on the earth.

Revelation 12:12 "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth" speaks of the whole time from the cross till Satan is put out of business. He was defeated at the cross, but has been persecuting the church ever since (for the 1260 years as well as in the last days)

Obviously ALL the bowls of wrath (plagues) are poured out upon the earth. The "earth" is not a time prediction. This is simply saying the earth will experience the LAST plagues. It does NOT mean that everything happening on earth previously must therefore be part of those seven last plagues.

The first of the last plagues, people who worship the beast, develop grievous and painful sores.
That is simply not the same thing as a disaster of fire, hail and blood wiping out 1/3 of the earth and burning up all the "green grass".

Consider the historicist interpretation dealing with Jerusalem:
Grass can be a symbol of the fragility of human life, but this is GREEN grass which can also be symbolic of rest and peace from God, as implied in Psalm 23:2, where the Bible implies that God will ?make us lie down in green pastures.? Jerusalem -- the very name means peace and rest.
It was the God's higher plan for Jerusalem be the center of peace. But when they rejected the "Prince of Peace" all their peace was burned up.

Luke 19:41 And when Jesus drew near to Jerusalem he beheld the city, and wept over it,
19:42 Saying, If you would have known, even you, at least in this your day, the things which would have brought you peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
19:43 For the days shall come upon you, when your enemies shall cast a trench about you, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because you knew not the time of thy visitation.


To me this historical event is a warning --
A third of the trees (the leaders) were burnt up
The green grass was ALL burnt up

Their peace was gone. God's chosen people lost their peace and their city of peace, because they rejected the "Prince of Peace".






Re: Seven Trumpets reconsidered [Re: Karen Y] #198918
07/16/25 12:22 AM
07/16/25 12:22 AM
Kevin H  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 664
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Our traditions about the trumpets were developed before Mrs. White receved most of her visions. She tells us that we will not understand the mark of the beast until the unrolling of the scrool (i.e. when the trumpets start to sound.)

Interesting what was said about the trees (leaders) and the destruction of 1/3 of the earth.

An interesting point that I have been wrestling with, is the trumpets bring destruction in general and the people curse God. Then there is the horrible destruction of the 7,000 and the 10%. These two numbers are notible. Who do the 7,000 and 10% belong to? The 7,000 comes from 1 Kings 19:18. And who does the 10%, the tithe belong to???

While suffering under the trumpets, people in general end up cursing God. But then, when they see how God's people deal with their suffering, many of those who were just cursing God end up praising God. Could this be the latter rain?

While I'm open to learning more, I am currently in the understanding that the trumpets are what we have called the little time of trouble, which leads up to the close of probation, in which righteous will die, but their deaths will win souls. Then the plagues are the results after the close of probation, where God's people will no longer die.

Another question is the trumpets having people who cursed God under the generalized problems of the trumpets. But then something about how God's people: the 7.000 and the tithe, dies that changes so many from cursing God to praising God. Will Satan feel that "Hey, with Job, he spent years worshiping God. But I just got these new converts to curse God not too long ago, I bet I can make them curse God again!"

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