Forums117
Topics9,252
Posts196,664
Members1,327
|
Most Online5,850 Feb 29th, 2020
|
|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
31
|
|
|
|
Here is a link to show exactly where the Space Station is over earth right now: Click Here
|
|
6 registered members (dedication, Karen Y, daylily, Kevin H, TheophilusOne, 1 invisible),
2,597
guests, and 28
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical?
[Re: Nadi]
#198807
05/24/25 11:35 PM
05/24/25 11:35 PM
|
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2024
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,997
Canada
|
|
That is a good study, with solid information that yes, God investigates, and there is investigation going on in heaven, and yes, God's law is the standard of righteousness and a godly character, but there is something missing in the way we often present it. Too often we present it in a way that leaves very little (if any) hope, for we have all sinned and come short of the glory of God, we have multiple evidence that we've broken God's commandments, how can we stand in this judgment?
There is a whole deeper dimension to the investigative judgment.
What is the investigative judgement investigating? Whether we keep God's commandments or not, is not the ticket to pass or fail, while it plays a part, it is not the means of salvation. Our "works" are only a sign or evidence of something deeper. Living in accord with God's commands is the outworking of something deeper, And it is this deeper reality that is being investigated. The judgment is searching to see who is overcoming by the blood of the Lamb and faith in Him, and who is genuinely being transformed in character (not just doing outward actions to obtain a prize)but a transformation by the grace and presence of Christ in their life.
It's investigating as to, Who has our heart?, Who has our loyalty? It's to show who actually WANTS to keep God's commandments and loves doing so, because they love their Savior and His law? It's a life changing relationship with Christ?
It's a searching out everyone who can be saved, everyone who would be joyful citizens of Christ's kingdom of righteousness, and presenting them to the heavenly hosts as citizens of Christ's kingdom. It's a saving ministry, not a means to keep out as many as possible. There is no joy in heaven when a name is rejected because they rejected Christ's matchless gift and power for their salvation.
1 Chr. 28:9 ?Know the God of your father, and serve Him with a loyal heart and with a willing mind; for the LORD searches(investigates) all hearts and understands all the intent of the thoughts.
Rev. 2:23 all the churches shall know that I am He who searches(investigates) the minds and hearts.
Psalms 14:2 The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see (searching, investigating) if there were any that did understand, and did seek God. Psalms 53:2 God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see(searching, investigating) if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.
Isaiah 62:12 The Redeemed of the LORD; shall be called Sought Out, (searched out) A City Not Forsaken.
Matthew 22:11 And when the king came in (to the wedding feast) to see (to investigate) the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
Romans 8:27 Now He who searches (investigates) the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints
Philippians 3:8,10 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord:...And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
And may we "be found in Him" when Jesus presents our names before the Father and all the angels, that our names may be permanently in the book of life.
Rev. 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
|
|
|
Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical?
[Re: Nadi]
#198820
06/03/25 10:29 PM
06/03/25 10:29 PM
|
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2024
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,997
Canada
|
|
The investigative judgment needs to be understood in the context of the Great Controversy. The problem is that most people, even in Christian communities, do not put much emphases on the Great Controversy, many don't even believe in it. Sure they realize there is conflict between good and evil but the reason for this conflict is largely lost. The Great Controversy begins with a perfect creation. God did not create any defective, sinful beings. He created them with the power of CHOICE. Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. God created intelligent beings with the capacity to love, choose and think rationally. He did not create robots, He He created them prefect and sinless with the capacity to reason and choose. Humans are not the only created beings either. When God " laid the foundations of the earth and the corner stone thereof.. the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" (Job 38:4-7) Obviously there were many beings excited about God starting to create this world. That's before there were any humans. The Bible also speaks of thousands and ten thousands of angels. Psalms 103:20 " his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word. "Revelation 12 gives us a picture of this controversy which started in heaven, -- there was a war in heaven. The account uses words that point us back to Genesis 3 where serpent, dragon -- this fallen created being who started the controversy in heaven, used a serpent to deceive Eve and causing both Eve and Adam to doubt and disobey God. He is the dragon at war with Christ, he is satan, the devil, that serpent. (See Rev. 12:1-9) The wide acceptance of evolution is another problem which denies the Great Controversy theme. It denies the idea that God created a perfect world in the beginning. It's a denial of God's perfect creation, turning Genesis chapter one and two into nothing more than an allegory to be explained by an evolution. In evolution there is no perfect, sinless human, who rebelled and turned away from God, thus plunging the world into sin and death. That concept is replaced to thinking God is simply evolving mankind from primitive, ignorant life forms, into a more elevated state of being. Salvation is then seen not as restoration (restoration means that once things were good, and we need to return to that good) but it is seen as evolution, in which mankind evolving through a fight of survival of the fittest, into something better and more rational and caring. In the Great Controversy -- there was a rebellion against God, led by Satan (Lucifer, the highest angel in God's heaven) He rebelled against God and His law, and brought sin into existence. He succeeded in persuading a third of the angels and the entire human race to join with him in his rebellion. (Rev. 12, Isaiah 14, Ezekiel 28, Gen. 3) They were cast out of heaven. Human beings have been infected with sin. Sin has merged with their very nature. This being a fact how can God reintroduce them into heaven? Won't that just pollute the holy atmosphere of heaven again? Satan managed to deceive a third of the angels to rebel against God, and they were cast out of heaven because of their sin. How can God possibly take these sin infected people into heaven, won't that simply carry the war back into heaven? The purpose of the investigative judgment is not for God to decide who is worthy, or who has surrendered their lives to Christ, and been cleansed by the blood of the Lamb, He knows all that without a court with millions of angels in attendance. BUT those millions of angels need to know as well. God is God of the whole universe, and this issue is about Him and His character and rule. Lucifer challenged God's character and right to rule, and sinners do the same. "his citizens hated him,.... saying, We will not have this [king] to reign over us. Luke 19:14Zechariah in chapter three, points out that Satan stands ready to accuse God's people. His premise is, God kicked him out of heaven, thus there is no way God can be fair and allow these sinners into heaven. But Christ says: " The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD...is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?" Zech. 3:2Revelation 12:10, confirms who is standing ready to accuse and insist people are his, due to their sins. " for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night." The divine Intercessor presents the plea that all who have overcome through faith in his blood be forgiven their transgressions, that they be restored to their Eden home, and crowned as joint-heirs with himself to the "first dominion." [Micah 4:8.] Satan, in his efforts to deceive and tempt our race, had thought to frustrate the divine plan in man's creation; but Christ now asks that this plan be carried into effect, as if man had never fallen. He asks for his people not only pardon and justification, full and complete, but a share in his glory and a seat upon his throne. {GC88 483.3} While Jesus is pleading for the subjects of his grace, Satan accuses them before God as transgressors. The great deceiver has sought to lead them into skepticism, to cause them to lose confidence in God, to separate themselves from his love, and to break his law. Now he points to the record of their lives, to the defects of character, the unlikeness to Christ, which has dishonored their Redeemer, to all the sins that he has tempted them to commit, and because of these he claims them as his subjects. {GC88 484.1} Jesus does not excuse their sins, but shows their penitence and faith, and, claiming for them forgiveness, he lifts his wounded hands before the Father and the holy angels, saying, ?I know them by name. I have graven them on the palms of my hands. ?The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.? [Psalm 51:17.] And to the accuser of his people he declares, "The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the Lord that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee. Is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?" [Zechariah 3:2.] Christ will clothe his faithful ones with his own righteousness, that he may present them to his Father ?a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing.? [Ephesians 5:27.] Their names stand enrolled in the book of life, and concerning them it is written, "They shall walk with me in white; for they are worthy." [Revelation 3:4.] {GC88 484.2}
|
|
|
Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical?
[Re: Nadi]
#198827
06/11/25 02:34 AM
06/11/25 02:34 AM
|
SDA Active Member 2025
Senior Member
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 648
New York
|
|
|
|
|
Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical?
[Re: dedication]
#198848
06/23/25 08:20 PM
06/23/25 08:20 PM
|
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2024
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,997
Canada
|
|
Looking at some of the challenges critics have voiced:
1. Does "being seated at the right hand of God's throne" mean Jesus did not minister in the holy place?
Hebs. 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 8:1.2 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Some argue that this constitutes evidence that Christ went immediately into the most holy place. It is based on the assumption that God has a stationary throne in one location, and that the text literally means Christ is sitting there with the Father. If He isn't literally sitting in this stationary place with the Father, it is implied we believe Christ is not with the Father for the first 1810 after His ascension .
Let's unpack this, what does it mean, "seated on the right hand of the throne"?
Does it mean literally sitting there? It may, but that is not the real meaning of the phrase. "Right hand of the throne" "right hand of power" "right hand of the Prime Minister", or the president, etc. These phrases in scripture and in common usage means, "respect, honor, power", next to the principle holder of that respect, influence and power. Someone "at the right hand" of the most powerful Being, is one known to agree with, voice and execute the will and purposes of the of that powerful Being. It relates to a position of influence, respect, honor, power and worthiness, not to a physical position of immobility.
In Rev. 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. Are we to understand that being in heaven means the redeemed will literally all be sitting on Christ's golden throne in heaven? If they physically move anywhere else they would not be with Jesus? No, it means the redeemed will share honor, respect and power with Christ. He will exalt them as they exalt Him. It relates to a position of influence and honor, respect, not to actually physically sitting there in all eternity. The redeemed will "follow" Christ, they will travel with Him, etc. etc.
The same with Christ and the Father, they work together.
Is God's throne stationary?
Daniel seven allows us to see the heavenly judgment begin. Following the historicist approach to interpreting prophecy, we realize that this judgment scene takes place after the 1260 years, after the four beasts have made their appearance, but before the events on earth are resolved.
The scene is full of movement! We see thrones being set up. We see the Ancient of Days (God the Father) take His seat. Look at His throne -- see the WHEELS! Fiery wheels. God's throne is not stationary (as we see it moving in other passages as well as here in Daniel) Jesus, the Son of Man (why the son of man, because He comes representing the human race) He is brought by a cloud of angels to -- NOT to earth -- He is brought before the Ancient of Days. Jesus as our human representative who, with his life, death and resurrection, has won back the lost dominion, is given full title as redeemer of this planet. He then presents names of those who overcome in His name before the Father and the angels, and when it's all accomplished the saints will inherit the earth. (Daniel 7:9-10,13-14, Revelation 3:5, Daniel 7:18,22)
|
|
|
Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical?
[Re: dedication]
#198849
06/23/25 08:21 PM
06/23/25 08:21 PM
|
Global Moderator Supporting Member 2024
5500+ Member
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,997
Canada
|
|
The Investigative judgment and God's throne in Ezekiel
In Ezekiel, Israel is facing destruction. They have persistently broken their covenant with God, worshipped idols and engaged in evil.
But God is in no hurry. His throne is hovering over Jerusalem. It's quite an awesome sight, living wheels in wheels with a sparkling sapphire platform above them with the throne. (Ez. 1) Ezekiel 8 God's glory was still there But God is investigating and revealing the evidence to His prophet (8:4) Now the evidence is revealed, an image of jealousy stands just outside. Inside the temple all manner of abominations are seen in the very house of God, outside woman are paying tribute to a false god Tamuz and priests, supposedly serving God are worshipping the sun!
Ezekiel 9 there is an investigation and marking -- are their any righteous? They will receive the seal of God.
The sealing (compare with Rev.7) Ez. 9:4 Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. Ez.9:11 And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which [had] the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.
(Filling the censor with burning coals ready to cast down (probation closing) (Comp with Rev. 8:5) Ezekiel 10:6 And it came to pass, [that] when he had commanded the man clothed with linen, saying, Take fire from between the wheels, from between the cherubims; then he went in, and stood beside the wheels. Ez.10:7 And [one] cherub stretched forth his hand from between the cherubims unto the fire that [was] between the cherubims, and took [thereof], and put [it] into the hands of [him that was] clothed with linen: who took [it], and went out.
(God withdrawing) Ez.10:18 Then the glory of the LORD departed from off the threshold of the house, and stood over the cherubims. 10:19 And the cherubims lifted up their wings, and mounted up from the earth in my sight: when they went out, the wheels also [were] beside them, and [every one] stood at the door of the east gate of the LORD'S house; and the glory of the God of Israel [was] over them above.
Ez.11:23 And the glory of the LORD went up from the midst of the city, and stood upon the mountain which [is] on the east side of the city.
Ezekiel 9 After the Man clothed in linen had placed His seal on the repentant ones, the men with the destroying weapons began their deadly work.
Now in these chapters one can focus on the fearful ending of the evil ones, or one can focus on the God Who does not destroy without first investigating and searching out all who are responding to His call. God will always search out His followers, sealing them for His kingdom, hovering over them just a little longer hoping more will repent and respond to His deliverance. But finally the judgment will fall.
|
|
|
Re: Is the Investigative Judgement Biblical?
[Re: Nadi]
#198906
07/12/25 08:34 AM
07/12/25 08:34 AM
|
Group: Admin Team
3000+ Member
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,365
Florida, USA
|
|
Will have to reread Ezekial as seems to have more than meets the eye so to say..
|
|
|
|
Here is the link to this week's Sabbath School Lesson Study and Discussion Material: Click Here
|
|
|